636 réponses à ce sujet

[SlottsMachine]

It does when the idea is tyrannical. Agree with everything Leo says if you want to be a part of his internet utopia. Or be cast aside.

 

And anyone that disagrees is sub human and will be cast aside.

[BronzTrooper]

All the people who are saying 'man up' or 'grow a thicker skin' don't realize that some people just can't do that.  They're emotionally unable to tune out what others say/type to/about them.  I know, because I used to be one of those people and I've met others who were like that.  Eventually, I snapped and beat the hell out of one of the guys that was bullying me, who was one of many despite my moving from school to school to school from 2nd grade all the way through my first half of freshman year at high school.  I was just one of those kids who was a magnet for being bullied.  But I'm an atypical case.

 

The reason why you don't hear of more direct/independent types of people being bullied is because they're the kind of people who wouldn't stand for that kind of stuff and would retaliate, whether verbally or physically.  The most victims of bullying (tbh, even I feel that the word 'victim' is a bit strong) are too reserved to stand up for themselves and, as a result, are sponges of verbal, emotional, and, in some cases, physical abuse.

 

I was lucky enough to not receive the worst of it, but there are plenty of people who do/have and resort to suicide as their only option because they're too afraid/ashamed to talk about it.  It's even worse when people see it happening right in front of them and don't do anything to stop it.

 

I know that all those anti-bullying commercials, seminars, etc. say to tell someone about it, but in my experience, it doesn't do ****.  I've had entire groups gang up on me and cheer on the assholes who bullied me.  Typical mob mentality thinking that only makes matters worse.  People refuse to stand up to the abusers, either staying silent or cheering them on.

 

If I ever saw anything like this irl, I would personally step in and stop it myself, even if it resorted to fighting because I will not accept that **** anymore.  The problem isn't the abusers, it's the assholes who just stand by and let it happen.  ****** step in and stop it!  

 

 

* sighs * Sorry about the rant, but I feel really strongly about this.  Stopping bullying relies on the people on the sidelines to do something to stop it, not trying to get rid of the bullies themselves.  Telling people about it doesn't guarantee anything will be done; stepping in yourself does.

[BronzTrooper]

And anyone that disagrees is sub human and will be cast aside.

 

Considering what makes us human is our capacity to think and form our own opinions, making everyone think alike is kind of a bad idea, regardless if it solves arguments and ends conflicts.  Saying that people who disagree with it are sub-human is simply your opinion, which kind of supports my point.

[BronzTrooper]

See, that's why when your son or daughter gets their ass whupped or made fun of you get them and the bully alone and make sure your child beats their ass. Like in Gotham. It worked for Bruce Wayne. Maybe my kids will end up vigilantes one day.

 

Well, tbh, the fight I was referring to happened on my bus with no input from my parents beforehand.  Got in-school suspension for a day afterwards and the principal called my dad, but he laid into him and basically told him that he wasn't going to punish me for standing up for myself, so that's something.  

[Degenerate Rakia Time]

"how do we tackle on line bullying?"

 

under the belt, obviously

[Dermain]

For the sake of my sanity at the moment I'm going to reply to these before catching up with the thread.

 

I am not against re-education. It is what the UK's prison system is trying to do, all be it not successfully.

We call it rehabilitation here in the UK. It is where a parole officer is assigned to an individual recently released from prison to try and put them on the straight and narrow.

 

That's what happens in the US as well.

 

The problem being the system isn't actually set to re-educate the criminals into teaching them useful skills.

 

Well, That's up to the team of the Psychiatrists, They have to convince the moderators and the managers of how these particular behaviors would cause destructive argument. That's their job.

If reeducation works, Then great. If it doesn't, Then that person won't be allowed on the internet.

Maybe we should increase the number of moderators? That's the only viable solution.

If you're unable to understand your own mistakes and continue being self-destructive, Then we can't allow you to abuse others on the internet.

 

The most qualified psychiatrist of them would lead the team.

 

Well, Basically yeah, But it's for the greater good.

 

Well, I can't know that right now, Can I? I'm not an expert on everything.

 

Sorry, Misunderstood question. The standards that will be held in order to qualify as a moderator will be high in order to be able to interact and understand anything on the internet no matter how complex. This is basically legislating the internet, Not censoring it.

 

 

If you're having psychiatrists lead the team then are they prescribing medication to the "evil doers" (for lack of a better term)?

 

Because really, that's all most psychiatrits are educated to do. They went to MEDICAL school. They are MEDICAL doctors.

 

They choose their specialty during the final year of their degree, and one year is not enough time to learn enough psychological theory to be competent enough to practice it. Which is why, if you have gone to a psychiatrist, they only prescribe you medication instead of doing actual talk therapy.

 

The unfortunate part is most psychologists (who are trained to use talk therapy) are swamped with patients so they'll recommend their clients/patients to psychiatrists for psychiatric medication...

 

And I'm going to end that rant there.

 

Trauma won't be trauma though. Trauma leads to suicide. And it's the government's duty to protect its citizens from abuse.

 

Call me cynical, but I think they fail already. Why add something else for them to fail at?

 

I've survived school trauma, they ought to be able to. Government has a long list of jobs to do, what kids type online is rather low on the list.

 

So let me get this straight.

 

You are against the government limiting individuality by forcing "re-education" onto people that are harassing others on the internet, but when school trauma is brought up you think everyone should handle it the same way as YOU do? That seems a bit hypocritical.

 

I'm sure you know that individuality means that people will not handle the same situations in the same manner. So it's great you were able to handle your school trauma in a productive way, but that's not the way everyone handles it.

 

Unless you want the government to re-educate the "deviants" so that they handle things how you do, because that's really the only way your comment would make sense.

 

The (un)fortunate part is that such a system would fail regardless.

 

I'll likely be editing this to comment on other things as I catch up.

 

Edit:

 

 

So I have a question for Leo here :

Yesterday on that thread Bunz made about dating an older woman, that Gundam something kid who left the forum, he talked very badly about women, HARASSED them and YOU agreed and kept reminding him of so, you two hit it off pretty well while BOTH of you were saying such harassing stuff. So my question is... when these forum psychiatrists they are to filter people off, are you excluded from the rules? Are you an exception? Cause as I alway see it here on these threads, you always make noise and accuse everyone else when you don't have a buddy to make noise with but the second you do, you're no better than the rest of us.

 

That's really everyone.

Also, stop saying psychiatrists! 

 

Sounds like the internet turned into a fascist communist government where everyone is "equal but not really".

 

The problem therein lies that you are trying to regulate a thing so large that you can't regulate it, like when Rome tried to control half the European continent, it just didn't work and they fell apart because they couldn't keep everyone togeather.

 

So you punish people for doing things on the internet, then who's to say some of those people don't "rebel" and make their own rules in their own part of the internet, free from the "tyrannical" rein.

 

Government only works if the massive majority wants it.

 

You can not have a government that is both communist and fascist. Those are two different government styles, but they do have some areas where they over lap.

[AutumnWitch]

I envision something like this to tackle it (but over the internet).

 

[Dermain]

Since Autumn decided to post after me I can now continue with my post with a separate post! 

 

 

You obviously are not to fond of reading my previous thoughts thoroughly, And you obviously are not too fond of constructive criticism. So, I'll just leave it to that.

 

He is giving you constructive criticism.

 

You seem to be the one that can't take it as evident by statements like the above.

 

I don't agree. Apathy tend to happens when something is far from you. Are you crying over the thousand of kids starving right now ? Prob not. But if you were next to a kids dying from starvation . It would probably have a greater impact on you. Because it happens next to you. Internet  a bit the same. People say nasty thing online, but two minutes after they forget about it and they move on. Or maybe they will have a nasty smirkand might even feel better about themselves, but i'd rather do good. Because that make me even feel better.

 

I think a lot of folk just lose a lot of empathy Online for others and it ''normal'' in some way. I don't get nasties get to me, because I know who truly I am and they don't. You only give them power if you allow them to have power over you. It all start between your two ear.

 

They do.

 

The real question is, is there a way to change that, and is the internet desensitizing the public to empathy?

 

People who cry out to end bullying and harrassment are delusional, those are basic parts of human communication and society. Just like war, they're not pretty but will always exist.

 

Perhaps, but it can be controlled.

 

I didn't mean psychiatrists per se, I'm simply stating that the most qualified individuals to evaluate personalities should lead the team.

If you think it's going to fail regardless, What do you suggest we do?

 

Something far more unethical than what you've suggested.

 

Edit:

 

 

At some point in a everyone's life, there comes a point where people need to realize that words are only words. Went through high school with people looking and talking down to me. I didn't let the assholes dictate how I feel about myself, and people who choose this mindset make their lives a lot easier, in my opinion.

 

As I mentioned in my above post, good for you!

 

Not everyone handles it that way.

 

What do you suggest we do for those people?

[Dermain]

Since Leo decided to post after me, I shall continue with my posts as I finally catch up with the thread.

 

 

All the people who are saying 'man up' or 'grow a thicker skin' don't realize that some people just can't do that.  They're emotionally unable to tune out what others say/type to/about them.  I know, because I used to be one of those people and I've met others who were like that.  Eventually, I snapped and beat the hell out of one of the guys that was bullying me, who was one of many despite my moving from school to school to school from 2nd grade all the way through my first half of freshman year at high school.  I was just one of those kids who was a magnet for being bullied.  But I'm an atypical case.

 

The reason why you don't hear of more direct/independent types of people being bullied is because they're the kind of people who wouldn't stand for that kind of stuff and would retaliate, whether verbally or physically.  The most victims of bullying (tbh, even I feel that the word 'victim' is a bit strong) are too reserved to stand up for themselves and, as a result, are sponges of verbal, emotional, and, in some cases, physical abuse.

 

I was lucky enough to not receive the worst of it, but there are plenty of people who do/have and resort to suicide as their only option because they're too afraid/ashamed to talk about it.  It's even worse when people see it happening right in front of them and don't do anything to stop it.

 

I know that all those anti-bullying commercials, seminars, etc. say to tell someone about it, but in my experience, it doesn't do ****.  I've had entire groups gang up on me and cheer on the assholes who bullied me.  Typical mob mentality thinking that only makes matters worse.  People refuse to stand up to the abusers, either staying silent or cheering them on.

 

If I ever saw anything like this irl, I would personally step in and stop it myself, even if it resorted to fighting because I will not accept that **** anymore.  The problem isn't the abusers, it's the assholes who just stand by and let it happen.  ****** step in and stop it!   

 

 

* sighs * Sorry about the rant, but I feel really strongly about this.  Stopping bullying relies on the people on the sidelines to do something to stop it, not trying to get rid of the bullies themselves.  Telling people about it doesn't guarantee anything will be done; stepping in yourself does.

 

The term victim is not "too strong" of a word. The worst victims of it are incapable of fighting back. At least in a traditional manner, which is fighting back.

 

We also have the issue of the people that fight back but go too far. As such we can end up with mass murders.

 

See, that's why when your son or daughter gets their ass whupped or made fun of you get them and the bully alone and make sure your child beats their ass. Like in Gotham. It worked for Bruce Wayne. Maybe my kids will end up vigilantes one day.

 

Wayne is not the only one.

 

Jonathan Crane also did the same, but he was a bit more sinister/psychological about it. 

 

Of course, you could also make the argument that neither of them are the perfect examples of how the handle bullies.

 

 

I don't like people who state their opinions as facts, That they're somehow more valid than others. That's why i didn't respond. But I'm fully capable of responding. I'm all ears to suggestions as I've already stated dozens of times that this concept is preliminarily and wasn't initially created for the internet.

 

Are you aware that you come across that way as well?

[Nessaya]

Don't put words into my mouth. This is the exact reason why this community is a turn-off, Always making assumptions of people's motives. Infact, I've already self-criticized my idea and stated that it wasn't even meant for the internet when i first thought of it. You guys are not open-minded to outside-the-box thoughts. Cynicism and Prejudices are strong with this community.

 

No, Leo. You are wrong. I have already told you this, but it is YOU who fail to see 'outside the box' - the box that you have created around yourself. You believe that your use of eloquent speech and your 'creativitiy' (which I have yet to experience, tbh. We only have your word on this, because you don't come over as creative at all, quite the opposite.) somehow entitle you to something. Make you different, special, more intelligent, whatever. Unfortunately, as Morrigan so wonderfully puts it: wishing to be something does not make it so. But exactly this is written all over your posts, not only in this topic, but in general. You seem like an intelligent guy, but you are wasting your energy in the wrong direction.You believe you are open-minded to everything, when objectively speaking, you are not. At all.

 

Best example is this sentence you keep using that I just quoted. People don't agree with you, so you simply put everyone in one box and are done with it. No questions asked. If they don't understand you, they are basically not worth your attention. And this is not me putting words in your mouth, one only has to read through the pages of this topic to see that. Every form of criticism of yourself or your ideas is put off as cynicism or prejudice, while you lean back, whip your arms in the air and say 'It's the community's fault for not grasping my ideas'. Your arguments basically are always the same: people don't understand you, they put words in your mouth, they are cynical and prejudiced, and they cannot think outside the box, while you obviously see yourself as a briliant debater with genuine arguments.

 

There is a reason you are on this forum, and you know as well as I do that it is NOT one for intellectual debate. If I wanted intellectual discussions, I would certainly not come here. I come here to relax and be entertained, which leaves me  wondering at your motives, though, since you take this place and the people in it way too seriously.

 

The real problem is, you are so far inside your own box that no amount of argumentation is ever going to make you see. It is not the community's duty to have to spell everything out for you. You will have to work on that yourself.

 

Cheers, I'm out.

 

P.S. If someone doesn't get a joke, whose fault is it: is it the fault of the person who is getting it told, or the person who is telling the joke? Ask yourself that next time you feel people misunderstand you.

[Dermain]

I thought I have already stated why I'm on this community. I'm having a rough year and i need to keep my mind off things. And yes, You're right, I've learned not to pay much attention to people who are not worth it. I've already told you that I'm an expert on analysis, And my analysis has never failed me in my entire life. I tend to analyze how people think, If i see that you're open to debates, I open my mind to you. If i see that you're willing to change your mind and are willing to engage in a good debate, I'm all ears to you. If else .... Well, It depends on the level of cynicism to be honest. And you've already experienced this yourself, Haven't you?

 

As for creativity, Creative ideas are often treated with neglect, Because normal people don't see what's so special about them.

 

There are a number of issues with this post.

 

Who are the people that are not worth it? Are they just the people that do not agree with you?

 

Claiming to be a self-professed expert on analysis does not mean that you actually are an expert. It is also entirely possible that you have just failed to see how your analysis has been wrong. 

 

There's actually a bias around that issue. If you expect to see a certain type of behavior from someone, you will start to see that behavior even if it's not being expressed.

 

If you go into debates with the intention of changing someones mind then you're doing debates wrong. It is unlikely that you will be able to convince someone to your viewpoints unless the other person's opinion is based on faulty information. Even if that is the case, they will still have a  tendency to continue discount your opinion.

 

That final sentence is the most faulty.

 

You are claiming that you are being creative by saying that people disagree with you because you're "creative". There's a logical fallacy occurring there, but I do not recall the name of it at the moment.

[LoonySpectre]

 There's a logical fallacy occurring there, but I do not recall the name of it at the moment.

It's called "Bulverism": "I think that you disagree with me because of X, and I think that X is wrong, therefore you are wrong".

[Dermain]

It's called "Bulverism": "I think that you disagree with me because of X, and I think that X is wrong, therefore you are wrong".

 

Thank you.

 

I'll add a syllogism to this:

 

People often disagree with the ideas of creative people.

People disagree with Leo8Skylar.

Therefore, Leo8Skylar is a creative person.

[Bod02]

I simply can't see online bullying as something serious to "tackle" when offline bullying exists and always will, other than in the capacity of- a. avoiding going online b. reporting it and c. trying not to be a dickhead tw@t. Certainly not any artificial systems or preventative measures, Leo.

 

Don't get me wrong I have zero tolerance for bullying. But sheltering people is just counter intuitive, they need to learn how to deal with bullies, and dealing with an online bully is far easier than someone who can push you around or damage your property or social status. I do wish more people would be nicer and stick up for people being bullied like yourself. It's so easy to be nice on the internet but then again it's so easy to be nasty as well.

 

I think most people would pass a flimsy test anyway. From all I've seen, bullying usually happens through a pack mentality where everyone decides to "join in on the fun". Most of those persons individually, would not be as malicious outside of their pinata beating circle, it's the kind of fucked up sh!t that happens whenever cliques form. Just look at TheBunz's origin story "who is the most attractive person on the bsn" or Zenmusic's gay discovery thread.

 

 

Obviously, this does not apply to bullying by real people you know, who are using the internet as an extra tool.

[Abraham_uk]

I'm still not sure Leo.

[LoonySpectre]

Bullies who have been bullied by bullies bully the bullies with bullying vigour!

There's the classical "Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo"