31 réponses à ce sujet

[TheBigLebowski]

I thought Oblivion learned RPG devs 1 thing; never have scaling enemies. It is lame, because one of the great things of RPS's is the fact you can level your char and come back to show your hard earned levels. Why has this game enemies that scale to your level?

 

I want to feel that I leveled up. Otherwise I can just play action games instead.

 

End rant....;-)

 

For example I was in the fallow mire, encountered level 10's and I was level 8 (on NM), So I thought I level up a bit to let's say 10? Ok, when I came back the exact same enemies now are 12. THAT IS LAME!

 

I do hope there is a cap for enemies?? If i go to 12 I don't hope they are 14, because that system reminds me of the awful Oblivion (that game was clearly broken leveling-up-wise).

 

RPG's need a proper leveling system.

[kstarler]

There are maximum levels to which enemies will scale in any given zone. Also, some zones will start with a minimum level, and I believe some quest mobs will have minimum levels as well.

[Xantium]

The level scaling caps at 11 in the early zones, sometimes changing depending on story progression and quest enemies that spawn later on in places like the Hinterlands. The rest of the zones, mostly on the Orlais' side of the map cap at 15, except for the final 2 zones, which I believe cap at 20 with a few certain enemies at a higher set level. The highest level enemy I've seen was 23.

 

 

 Edit:  Also, the level scaling in Oblivion was a tad bit ridiculous. It got to where you had to beat on a small group of three enemies for 6-7+ minutes to kill them. Especially in The Shivering Isles.

[TheBigLebowski]

Level 11? Ehm, I went back to the Hinterlands and enemies were 12 after I leveled up to 11. So if I go up to 15, they will be 15 as well? So much for being a good RPG. Ugh (a bit frustrated) 

[Swin]

I wouldn't worry about it too much, you will spend most of the rest of the game fighting enemies lower level than you. Hinterlands caps at 12 in the Lady Shayla Valley.

[I saved Star Wars :D]

http://forum.bioware...ry-overleveled/

 

http://dragonage3.wi... Progress Route

 

This game doesn't have scaling like Oblivion, I actually wish it either had some scaling for the story quests or at least high level end bosses. The bigger issue is how to avoid out levelling everything and it becoming so easy (although that is a problem more with crafted gear than anything, in a lot of people's opinions.)

 

Each zone has a fairly narrow level range, as others have said. If you go to the Hinterlands at L20, you will still be fighting low level mobs for example.

[Aurok]

I'm kinda the opposite. I hate having to waste my time on fights which provide no challenge at all but still take time to slog through.

 

It is kinda weird how it's handled in a few spots though. I didn't get around to fighting Lord Lucius (I think that's his name.... the Seeker guy) until I was about Lvl 14-15, his bodyguards were Lvl 11 (presumably levelled up a bit?) but Lucius himself was only Lvl 7 and took like one Twin Fang to kill. So a really epic climax to that quest..

[Pluvie]

If anything, I think this game actually needs MORE scaling.

 

Since you're bound to be better as long as you level up (more skills, more, knowledge of your character, more attribute points, progressively more imba gear) we could use enemies to be at least at the same level of our character, just to keep fights interesting and a little bit challenging, without feeling like you didn't progress.

 

For example, if you completely skip the Western Approach or the Exalted Plains, you still come up overleveled and when you go back to those areas to complete the quests they really feel underwhelming and boring as they cap mostly at level 11.

[SpaceV3gan]

Oh boy, I wish enemy levels could scale. Most of them have a very pathetic Level 15 cap. The ones at Hissing Wastes and Emprise du Lion can scale up to 19. Some of northernmost areas in the Emerald Graves seem to be always at level 20, but that is about it.
It is so boring when you are high level and you need to fight low level enemies. I've just played around Western Approach today with a level 19 party and enemies were either level 11 or 15, depending on the area. I killed the level 14 Dragon there in 30 seconds, on Nightmare.
It is not the first time I am playing the game through, what makes it feel more tedious. The game being as easy as it already is, having to fight enemies capped to low levels is pathetic.

[Araceil]

I have the complete opposite view, I absolutely hate it when games don't have level scaling. I like my games to provide a decent challenge regardless of what I'm fighting or when and I have yet to play a game without level scaling that didn't become mind-numbing easy by mid game regardless of what area I'm in. This normally happens because I did a few too many side quests or spent too long exploring one area and ended up massively over levelling and being a few steps ahead of the difficulty curve. So I can try and fix this by either skipping content to try and bring myself to a appropriate level or just be bored for the remainder of the game. What kind of choices are they? I could try purposely gimping my character (I do normally end up doing this) but I really shouldn't have to just to get a shred of challenge out of the game.   

 

I also find it really disconnects me from my character and the story, what's the point if my character never feels like they are in danger after level 10? I don't care about the approaching hoard of enemies because my character could defeat them by simply sneezing in their general direction. I'm not bothered by an otherwise intermediating threat because I know that the person giving the threat will provide no challenge in combat. I have no reason to try and find alternatives to combat because I'm not risking anything by choosing to fight. I understand your character is meant to be powerful but doing stuff like effortless dispatching 12+ bandits feels silly. I know this is more a issue with the game being too easy than with level scaling but the two often go hand in hand. 

 

Another thing that bothers me about level scaling is that enemies are arbitrary stronger on one side of the map than others, even if they are the same type. Why are the Templars to the north so much stronger than the ones in the south, did they run out of funds for training or something? It also forces you down a almost linear path if you want a difficulty curve that doesn't suck.  

 

Sorry for the essay, but that's just my £0.02 on the issue.  

[Zombie Chow]

I was wondering about this as I saw something weird. Here's my question:

Do Giants show up everywhere when you hit level 20?

I saw this in the Emerald Graves, not sure if that's a factor of level scaling or there are simply a huge population of Giants in that particular bit.

[I saved Star Wars :D]

There's just a lot of giants in that particular area

[Vox Draco]

Well, I found much of the scaling in the game rather weird. I was like lvl 23 when I unlocked a certain companion-side-quest (won't spoil), and I went to the location and fought off a lot of lvl 11 enemies ... and the main boss at teh end was lvl 7 !!

 

I mean, even if I would have unlocked this companion-quest right after I got to Skyhold (and I don't think its even possible to get it that early) I would have been like, lvl 12 at least, so still a lot higher than the boss...

 

I hated Oblivion-scaling. But they made it a bit better with Skyrim, mixing things more, with normal bandits, tougher outlaw-bandits etc.Bioware should really "up" many of the regions a fair bit. It's truly underwhelming when all enemies in an area are so much weaker than your party, you basically get punished for doing all the quests.

Not sure though if Nightmare makes things better in the long run, but I somehow doubt it.

[I saved Star Wars :D]

Yeah, it's just the bosses for me - I have no problem with over levelling normal enemies because of choices I made in how to play, but certain key end-bosses in story arcs should be scaled to your level imo

[I saved Star Wars :D]

Or scaled upwards, at least, not down XD

[Selea]

Level 11? Ehm, I went back to the Hinterlands and enemies were 12 after I leveled up to 11. So if I go up to 15, they will be 15 as well? So much for being a good RPG. Ugh (a bit frustrated) 

 

No, Hinterlands enemies cap at 12. However there are places that have no scaling at all. The Rifts for example. In the Hinterlands there are two that are level 12 no matter when you approach them (so if you approach them before level 8-10 you are surely toasted, a thing that can easily happen on a first playthrough since those Rifts are easy to reach).

The scaling on DA:I is only up to a certain point and only on normal/elite enemies and not on special encounters (as Rifts). Moreover main quest hubs have very limited scaling and you can certainly go there before a certain level (as suggest) and be totally toasted.

Frankly speaking making an open world/semi open world with no scaling at all is really really complicated. Either you force a sort of "right path to follow" (as it happens in Divinity: OS, practically removing altogether the sandbox nature, since if you don't follow that path you are simply dead no matter what) or you have to have scaling (at least to a certain extent). There's no way out of it, really.

An open world means to have choices to go where you want when you want to, but if you don't' have scaling that means that in certain zones you will not be able to step in before a certain point, hence forcing you on a path no matter what. You can either like this better, but surely this removes the "sandbox" aspect from the game since you force people on a linear path.

Bioware tried the mixed approach: more ample scaling on optional/mixed hubs and very limited scaling (2-3 levels) on main/forced hubs, so that when you do the main quest the scaling part is reduced to a minimum since you sort of follow a linear path, but when you wander on the sandbox part of the game you are allowed to go where you want when you want to (with the possibility, however, to find even there not scaling encounters, so as to give both experiences).

[Gigamantis]

The trash mobs and animals you run into while exploring a map shouldn't scale, but things like Rifts, story quests, boss fights and anything else significant should scale to your level.  It's not like you won't feel more powerful when getting higher level, since abilities and crafting are the real game changers.  Being scaled up just keeps your enemies in the fight, keeps the content feeling significant and keeps the loot worthwhile. 

[Archie591]

The fact is that there is no way to please everyone. Some people want a challenge at all times, while others want to feel themselves outpower half the enemies completely. And most people want the games to offer as much freedom as possible at the same time. Though some enjoy a linear progression as-well.

 

There is simply no way that I know of that will please all players. 

 

Bioware has tried to do a bit of everything. And I find that they have done well in general. Most players aren't extremists, so they will enjoy the occasional challenges and the occasional overpowering and the bits of linearity and the overall freedom.

[myztikrice]

Levels are probably tuned fine, they just decided to add 5% extra mob experience and +100xp every time you read a piece of paper that mess everything up. Also the Haven fight and lesser extent mage/templar fight being so much more difficult than the rest of the game encourages rapid XP gain during that portion of the game that ends up backfiring at the later portions.

[Eledran]

On the contrary, I would like this game to have more scaling than it has now. It would certainly benefit the replayability.

 

As it stands now, I'm level 22 (almost 23) and there really isn't a normal mob in the world which can do much to me any longer. The only enemies that pose a threat are found in scaling missions or the high dragons.

 

Honestly, it's boring.

 

I agree that scaling should be done in an intelligent manner. When you start the game certain areas and enemies should be outside of your reach. But at the same time enemies that you outlevel should be allowed to scale within a few levels of you so that they still pose a threat.

 

It makes zero sense to me that one human NPC in the Hinterlands basically cannot damage me while another human in the Hissing Wastes kills me in two shots.

[Sylvius the Mad]

I dislike scaling generally, but DAI does little enough that it doesn't really bother me.

When my level 11 party arrived at a Rift and found that it was guarded by level 7 Wraiths, I laughed out loud. It was awesome.

[Frraksurred]

As a first time DA player I liked the scaling for my first play through (normal). It was a bit boring towards the end because I'm a completionist and was level 24 going into the final missions (ran over everything). I'm into my nightmare run now, so we'll see how it compares.

Personally I wish the game had a new game + similar to Borderlands, only where you could choose to do it again with enemies that would always scale to your level. Even better choose to have them scale to your level + or - up to 3 levels. On nightmare I think that would unbreak the game for those complaining it's too easy.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Level 11? Ehm, I went back to the Hinterlands and enemies were 12 after I leveled up to 11. So if I go up to 15, they will be 15 as well? So much for being a good RPG. Ugh (a bit frustrated) 

Enemies that respawn respawn at a higher (by capped) level.  Enemies you haven't killed yet stay the same level.

 

So if you visit a new region and don't do anything there, and then go away and gain levels, when you come back you'll be overlevelled for the content.  I did this in the Storm Coast - wandered through at level 11 facing level 7 enemies.

[teks]

Almost all games have scaling for nearly a decade, yet we still have these rants about how it doesn't work. Playing games without any scaling sucked. It was just as superficial.

"Oh I'm not high enough to keep playing, guess I gotta sit around and farm for a few hours until I am."

"Oh, I'm too high level for this area, guess I'm just gonna have to play with no enjoyment what-so-ever."

It detracted too much from the actual gameplay and forced players into advancing at a set pace rather then letting everyone play as fast or slow as they desire.

Here in DA3, I wish enemies scaled more, and harder. They get too weak about half way through.

 

The point of leveling isn't to rofl stomp low level areas, a task worth about 5 minutes of enjoyment, its about getting new abilities and skills you can combine into a repotoire of awesome combos and synergies, and the whole concept is for naught if the enemies aren't strong enough to show off its potential.

[In Exile]

I dislike scaling generally, but DAI does little enough that it doesn't really bother me.

When my level 11 party arrived at a Rift and found that it was guarded by level 7 Wraiths, I laughed out loud. It was awesome.

I just did that lost temple quest at level 23 and faced... level 7 enemies. I had a superior demon slaying rune. And a crit rate of 30% for my mage. It took between 2-3 hits of SB to slaughter arcane horrors.