176 réponses à ce sujet

[RaineXIII]

Okay so so far I'm loving this game. Got Skyhold the way that I want it, some nice gear for everyone in my party and my armored mount looks beast. But today as usual I can't play a game without one of my moron friends relaying fan feedback to me which makes the game feel a little less enjoyable..let's start from the beginning and please stay, I want feedback on this.

 

So I've beaten the game once now with my male human warrior and now I'm playing through as a female elf mage..now I already have a scheme in mind for my second romance option seeing as I romanced Josephine the first time around, poppa likes money bags am I right guys? Anyways this time around I decided that I'd go for it and romance everyone most hated character Sera.

 

Now I love Sera, during my first playthrough I set her up as a sniper and kept her back to deal damage to the enemies. She's helped me kill waves of demons, tons of Red Templars and I'm not kidding here but I've took her along to every dragon battle so the least I could do for her is give her happiness the second time around right?

 

Well get this, here I am making Skyhold look pretty and **** when my friend tells me that most people are seeing the relationship with Sera as "Abusive". Now I didn't understand this at first so I set down the controller and went to do a little digging, ready for the kicker? The main reason behind all of this is because in the end Sera asks you to drop your faith if you romanced her while playing as an elf..WHAT?! So because she's basically asking you to choose between her and Elvish beliefs that's considered abusive? I hate to pick here but that's nothing, if anything, if I had to choose an abusive relationship it would be Bulls seeing as he's waiting for you in your room and then starts to make advances on you because of you "Dropping hints and signs". UGH.

 

This annoyed me to the point where I had to step away for a second, and it hasn't just affected me. My girlfriend who's also been playing this gorgeous game was devastated because she'd been romancing Sera since she got the chance but dropped it because she said that it'd feel like you're bullying her. Not to mention the fact (and I may be wrong here but it's just my opinion) that due to the way Sera acts around most people and talks it hints at a character with mental disabilities.

 

This just annoyed me and I needed to vent, if you stayed through all of this feel free to leave your thoughts. Thanks guys.

[ORTesc]

I wouldn't say she has mental disabilities, she seems highly intelligent to me. I guess people feel the need to label that which doesn't seem "normal". If I remember correctly, people didn't like both Morrigan and Jack as well. It's judging a book by it's cover without ever taking the chance to read the actual book.

 

With that said, I do see how some people could see it as pushy to force your religion (or lack thereof) down someone else's throat. I mean, especially someone you're invovled with. Maybe controling is the word? If what you say is true, which I have no idea if it is or not, it seems to be a failure in writing the character (in my opinion). Possibly even shoving some anti-religion agenda down the gamer's throat.

 

Who knows with Bioware. They all think they're gods or something over there calling anyone who doesn't see their "art" as absolutely perfect a "troll".

[katzenkrimis]

I wouldn't say she has mental disabilities.

She's nuts. But they don't have psych wards in Thedas. So she gets to roam free.

Cole should be locked up, too. Or at least put on meds.

[DameGrace]

*snip*

 

Okay, OP, first of all, question: what do you think it is then? I mean, Sera making your character choose between her and your faith? You don't think it's abusive, I understand, but do you consider it 100% okay thing to demand something like this in relationship? 

 

I hope I don't sound like I'm baiting you and just want to argue. No, I'm really curious. My definition of abuse doesn't only include 'unwanted advances' (Bull example). Demanding one's lover to abandon her faith is not the first thing to come to my mind when speaking of abuse, but now that I think of it, it comes really close. If my boyfriend told me that I should choose between him and my faith, that would have been the end of our relationship. And not because of the very fact of denouncing my faith (maybe I don't care about my culture/my faith), but because he is demanding it. 

[actionhero112]

If it's a deal breaker for the relationship, I think it's fair for the other person to bring it up as an issue. Otherwise it'll just gnaw at the other person and eventually lead to a messy end anyways. If your faith is more important than the relationship, then break it off, it's that simple. 

 

People are too accustomed to having the cake and eating it too in games. Sera has explicit reasons why she doesn't like dalish culture and the elven religion which she explicitly tells you if the Inq is an elf, but suddenly it's abusive for her to say, "Wait, I can't do this if you remain a part of this thing I don't like." 

[Sully13]

[Shechinah]

Oh boy, I'm going to cut this short and just say you are in the wrong forum and this topic is more suited for either the Spoiler or Character section as this contains several spoilers.

[Tetigistus]

Agreed.  There is already a huge thread about why Sera is obnoxious. 

[Mornmagor]

I thought this was the NO SPOILERS section.

[Rifneno]

f I had to choose an abusive relationship it would be Bulls seeing as he's waiting for you in your room and then starts to make advances on you because of you "Dropping hints and signs". UGH.

8/10 - accurate topic title is accurate

[OriginalTibs]

If you are authentically incompatible with Sera, or the behavior her romance requires, then recognize that fact and respond accordingly. But if it is your girlfriend who is incompatible let her play her own game as she sees fit. You play yours.

[OHB MajorV]

I mean it's kinda to be expected, it's not like she leads you to believe she's devout. Like it or not religious people have a tendency to push their religion on people sometimes on purpose sometimes not. For me personally I chose to spend my life with a woman who believes in god but isn't active with a church, she also respects my decision not to believe. Among us we decided to let our children from their own opinions on faith.

Honestly my situation is pretty rare. Most people of faith can't/won't be with someone who doesn't share these beliefs. It makes perfect sense that sera would want to be with someone who shares her views on the matter.

[Hobbes]

I wouldn't say that it's abusive myself, just incredibly close-minded and arguably unfair on Seras end. 

I also do not think Sera is mentally disabled, she is just fairly easy going and perhaps...willfully ignorant of a few things in the game.  She seems very much like I'm going to do things the way I like, I don't care what the rest of you think and I don't need to know about everything else, type of person.

 

.............
Honestly my situation is pretty rare. Most people of faith can't/won't be with someone who doesn't share these beliefs. It makes perfect sense that sera would want to be with someone who shares her views on the matter.

I think it's less having the same beliefs and more not having Elven ones, at least by what the OP is saying.  Which is still very much a Sera thing, I suppose.

[Rasande]

Okay, OP, first of all, question: what do you think it is then? I mean, Sera making your character choose between her and your faith? You don't think it's abusive, I understand, but do you consider it 100% okay thing to demand something like this in relationship? 

 

I hope I don't sound like I'm baiting you and just want to argue. No, I'm really curious. My definition of abuse doesn't only include 'unwanted advances' (Bull example). Demanding one's lover to abandon her faith is not the first thing to come to my mind when speaking of abuse, but now that I think of it, it comes really close. If my boyfriend told me that I should choose between him and my faith, that would have been the end of our relationship. And not because of the very fact of denouncing my faith (maybe I don't care about my culture/my faith), but because he is demanding it. 

 

Just beacuse it isn't right dosen't automatically make it abuse,don't  demean people who are acually verbally and physcally abused by comparing it to anything that acually happens in the game, you are trivilizing real issues and it's just plain insluting. There's one proper deffinition for abuse and it's in the ****** dictionary and it sure as hell dosen't include anything Iron Bull or Sera do, worst case senario he missreads you and the second you say stop, he stops.

 

There are women who get sexually harrased every ****** day and when they say stop, they don't ****** stop. By comparing what Bull does in the game to that you might as well go and spit in their faces.

 

What Sera demands is selfish, childish and inconsiderate among many other things but it's not even close to absue!! How can you seriosuly even consider this absue!?

Uncaring and demanding as it may be, Sera has a right to her own deal breakers like everyone else. Just beacuse she fucks up and gives you a stupid and hurtful ultimatum dosen't mean she's abusing anyone. She just fucked up in a relashionship causing it to end. Like in real life. The end.

[cronshaw]

Aside from game mechanics, I tend to ignore everything "fans" say about BioWare's games.

[LobselVith8]

If it's a deal breaker for the relationship, I think it's fair for the other person to bring it up as an issue. Otherwise it'll just gnaw at the other person and eventually lead to a messy end anyways. If your faith is more important than the relationship, then break it off, it's that simple. 

 

People are too accustomed to having the cake and eating it too in games. Sera has explicit reasons why she doesn't like dalish culture and the elven religion which she explicitly tells you if the Inq is an elf, but suddenly it's abusive for her to say, "Wait, I can't do this if you remain a part of this thing I don't like." 

 

You mean Sera giving her girlfriend Lavellan an ultimatum to suddenly give up her religious beliefs in order to continue the relationship? If Sera only wanted to be with an Andrastian, I don't understand why she entered into a relationship with someone who was Dalish in the first place. Entering into a romance with someone, having sex with them, and then tossing them to the curb because the person won't suddenly give up their religious beliefs paints a pretty ugly picture of Sera.

[Rifneno]

Entering into a romance with someone, having sex with them, and then tossing them to the curb because the person won't suddenly give up their religious beliefs paints a pretty ugly picture of Sera.

Her genetics beat her to it.
 

 

[Vox Draco]

Sera was never quite an agreeable girl -
Her tongue tells tales of rebellion.
But she was so fast,
And quick with her bow,
No one quite knew where she came from.

Sera was never quite the quietest girl -
Her attacks are low and they're joyful.
But she knew the ways of nobler men,
And she knew how to enrage them.

She would always like to say,
"Why change the past,
when you can own this day?"
Today she will fight,
To keep her way.
She's a rogue and a thief,
And she'll tempt your fate.

Sera was never quite the wealthiest girl -
Some say she lives in a tavern.
But she was so sharp,
and quick with bow -
Arrows strike like a dragon.

Sera was never quite the gentlest girl -
Her eyes were sharp like a razor.
But she knew the ways of commoner men,
And she knew just how to use them.

[OHB MajorV]

You mean Sera giving her girlfriend Lavellan an ultimatum to suddenly give up her religious beliefs in order to continue the relationship? If Sera only wanted to be with an Andrastian, I don't understand why she entered into a relationship with someone who was Dalish in the first place. Entering into a romance with someone, having sex with them, and then tossing them to the curb because the person won't suddenly give up their religious beliefs paints a pretty ugly picture of Sera.

Knowing damn well how she feels about dalish culture I would say it's just as much on the quizzy as it is sera. This conversation is borderline dumbest thing I've read on here. Calling it abusive and then faulting her for her religious beliefs is ridiculous. People fall for people they know they shouldn't all the time.

[Navasha]

I don't know that I will ever do a Sera romance in my games.    The only personality of my characters I can conceive of putting up with her for very long is the 'care for nothing but myself' type.    I usually only do one of those types and its always a guy character, which puts her out of bounds.  

 

My 'good' and 'humorous' female character archetypes would stand Sera's company for long. 

[panda_express12]

I wouldn't call wanting a partner to renounce their faith abusive, just selfish and stupid. Its kind of ridiculous to get with someone, knowing that they follow beliefs you don't agree with, and demand they convert.

[Aesir26]

I don't think I'd call it abusive but I would definitely put it in "control freak" territory.

 

 

I wouldn't call wanting a partner to renounce their faith abusive, just selfish and stupid. Its kind of ridiculous to get with someone, knowing that they follow beliefs you don't agree with, and demand they convert.

 

Essentially this. When someone's faith is a deal breaker in a relationship it's one thing to go "I think we need to go our separate ways" and quite another to go "No, you need to stop believing that or we can't be together anymore".

[LiquidLyrium]

There's a lot of other things about Sera that makes her friendship/romance come off as abusive.

 

I feel like I'm constantly walking on eggshells with her, her conversations are a mine-field and I don't want it to explode when I'm talking to her. If you go along to get along with her, then everything is hunky dory. But woe betide you if you ever express a different opinion.

 

 

1. She will yell at the Inquisitor for a dream she had. She gets mad and yells at the Inquisitor over a dream. That is just so irrational and scary to me. That entire conversation read to me as "I had this emotional response from my subconcious, I'm scared AND IT'S YOUR FAULT I'M ANGRY AT YOU."

 

2. She pulls an arrow on the Inquisitor if you drink from the Well of Sorrows. Just in case you were a demon. And she seems to be the only one worried about this possibility because she so firmly believes everything that went on in the temple was at the behest of demons.

 

3. She is constantly calling the Inquisitor stupid about stuff. If you stop to ask questions, you're stupid. If you believe something different from her, it's probably stupid.

 

4. She's also constantly assuming I'm putting her down and belittling her, when often I'm not (And thanks Bioware, for yet again having my PC call someone crazy. SIGH), and there's never a way to address that with her. Don't put words into my mouth, woman. But that's another classic abuser thing, they make themselves out to be the victim.

 

5. Also WOW how is "admit your heritage is wrong/is a Legacy of Demons and walk away from it or we end things here" how is that not manipulative? She knew going in that you're Dalish. And her whole gloating conversation after the Temple of Mythal felt really awful because she was so positively giddy over all the horrible things discovered there in addition to everything else.

 

6. Also in that same post-Mythal conversation despite knowing the truth about what happened at the Conclave, somehow you, the "Herald of Andraste" are not allowed to have your own opinion that is not Andrastian, apparently, even if you are Dalish or Tal-Vashoth. Like, she should know by that point what the Inquisitor believes about the Maker (and most of mine do not or are at least not Andrastian) so I don't know why I can't choose to believe in something I actually saw and experienced instead.

 

7. I really hated how she judged both the Inquisitor and Briala for doing the same things she does. The Inquisition and Briala's spy network are all opt-in things. As are the Friends of Red Jenny. (And she even insists that the Inquisition works like the FORJ--which I'm frankly not that convinced of. I'm not convinced they work the way she presented them at all, and I'm kind of disappointed on what they did with the Red Jennies in this game. Really takes away from the teeth they had previously.) And yet, in her personal quest, despite her insistence that she's the same as you--she refuses to accept that she should also be responsible for her people's safety then. You can't have it both ways, Sera. 

 

8. In her personal quest she gets MAD at you if you just TALK to this dude and try to suss out what's going on--or at the very least try to figure out other options. And if you pick enough dialogue options she'll murder him and then blame you for it. "I warned you! He was getting in your head! I helped you!" Like.. that is another thing that makes me not want to have Sera around because that is a scary reaction, frankly. 

 

I know there's more, but this is just off the top of my head.

 

EDIT: Also, as a NAT/ASD individual, I am personally tired of Sera's shitty behavior being explained away by Autism or ADHD. It is NOT an excuse for being a terrible human being, it is not an excuse to not grow as a person, it is not an excuse to be completely uncaring about how other people feel, and I really hate the implication that goes along with that.

[Rifneno]

If you take her into the Fade, even though you had no idea it would happen, she literally takes a swing at you back at Skyhold.

[Barathos]

In my mind, it's not abuse, it's just ... ignorance.

 

The case you're talking about, OP, is when evidence comes to light about elven society. Sera doesn't believe in Dalish which is fair because the Dalish get a bit weird sometimes, but what happened at the Temple of Mythal is a complete 180 from the Dalish. Sera still doesn't believe in it and throws it off as demon worship, but when the Inquis says "There might be more to it then just elfy things, let's figure it out" she gets all up in arms about it and will break up with you if you pursue.

 

I don't view it as hardcore abuse, but it is something that couples face today. Two athiests (agnostics, w/e) get together, fall in love, yada yada yada. Something pops up in their life and they become religious, the other balks at the idea and wants them to stop this revelation that's helping their significant other. Stopping your SO from finding themselves or helping themselves through religion could be considered a form of abuse. You're stopping them from doing what they believe is right and will make them whole, which is very bad juju in my book.