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[ElementalFury106]

So this came to me in the shower. I had just responded to another thread around here talking about Hawke, I have copy and pasted what I wrote. While collecting my thoughts after the post, I started thinking about what BioWare could've done differently and what would've been more appropriate.

 

To be fair Hawke was not even needed in the Warden storyline of the game. What tie does he have to that plot, save for the fact that he's faced Corypheus before? Shouldn't he instead be part of battles that actually include Corypheus then?

 

The arugment that "he introduces you to the Warden who informs you of the other Wardens' disappearances" isn't a strong one. The only one of the three possible Wardens he always meets is Stroud, during two possible events of DA:2 (giving Hawke's sibling to the Grey Wardens or the Qunari invasion of Kirkwall). The only other he could meet is Alistair, granted he stayed with the Wardens in DA:O. While possible, many players made Alistair King in their playthroughs, and Alistair is even King in BioWare's canon, so there's not much tying in how Hawke could've known a Warden Alistair. There's certainly no way Hawke could've known Loghain.

 

I mean, the only possible way Hawke could've personally known Loghain is so far fetched and absurd that shouldn't even be brought up. Many people disregard this, and BioWare has really missed a good opportunity when it comes this, but Hawke was at Ostagar. Remember the huge battle that set the events of DA:O? Yeah, Hawke was there. And like the soldiers there, Loghain was Hawke's general. This is an absurd explanation because 1) If Hawke was a Mage (which he is in BioWare's canon) he wasn't at Ostagar so he couldn't have known Loghain 2) Why would a grunt soldier personally known the renowned general/teryn who only answers to the King?

 

I mean, there could be a logical explanation as to how Hawke could've met either Alistair or Loghain after the events of DA:2. Perhaps when news spread of Corypheus' return, Hawke began his own investigations and crossed paths with either Alistair and Loghain since they were also doing investigations of their own. Still, it's an ambigious plot-hole that doesn't fit well.

 

But why the hell does Hawke accompany the Wardens north if he survives The Fade events..? He is no Warden, nor do they need his assistance...a reason is never given. He just basically says "I'ma leave now, it was a pleasure." Aren't you needed more in the immediate fight of Corypheus? But I guess BioWare loves treating him like a babysitter, as he babysits the Wardens in their travels north.

 

I'd say if Hawke was to be used at all during Inquisition, it would be doing the Mage/Templar quest. At least that has a personal tie to his story. It's revealed Varric always had ties to Hawke, and it could've been implemented that Hawke show up while recruiting either the Mages and Templars to the Inquisition since it actually aligns with Hawke's storyline. Like Cassandra says, Hawke's influence could directly relate and help solve the conflict.

 

It would've made for some really interesting options and variations depending on which side Hawke picked in DA:2 and which side the Inquisitor picks in Inquisition. And like Adamant/The Fade, Hawke would personally accompany you through the missions. It's epic and fits with the story, a double positive.

 

Then instead of sending him on his way in a rather stupid fashion like they did during Adamant Siege, Hawke's character would either receive the conclusion he deserves or continue to be part of the story. Here's how:

 

1) Hawke stays with the Inquisition to help oversee the cooperation of the Mages/Templars. He is present during the attack on Haven by Corypheus. The attack surprises Hawke more than anyone else, considering he killed Corypheus previously. Hawke can die during this attack if the Inquisitor asks him to assist others in using the escape route from the Chantry. Hawke's story officially and heroically ends.

 

or

 

2) Hawke stays with the Inquisition to help oversee the cooperation of the Mages/Templars. He is present during the attack on Haven by Corypheus. The attack surprises Hawke more than anyone else, considering he killed Corypheus previously. If the Inquisitor orders Hawke join the others in escaping through the Chantry instead of assisting others, Hawke survives the events of Haven. He proves to be instrumental in the rebuilding of Skyhold and officially joins the Inquisition when you are named The Inquisitor. He becomes a permanent part of Skyhold and an agent of the Inquisition.

 

Seriously, imagine Hawke being part of the Inquisition permanently throughout the game? It just seems right. He has so much influence and no matter what he always supports the Inquisition across all playthroughs/world states. It was a missed opportunity imo.

 

To sum up, Hawke's role in Inquisition is misplaced and doesn't make use of his character arc. As much as I loved having him around no matter what, it was only after I completed the game and re-evaluated the events in depth that I came across this conclusion.

 

BUT now you may wonder, if this was done your way, who would take Hawke's place during the Warden storyline? I think you all know the answer to this...

 

The Hero of Fereldan. Honestly, who could've better suited the role? 

-Who could've been the one to bring The Hero of Fereldan to Skyhold just as Varric brought Hawke? Leliana.

-The Hero of Fereldan could've known Stroud because THEY'RE ACTUALLY PART OF THE SAME ORDER. Otherwise, it's obvious how The Hero of Fereldan knows Alistair or Loghain.

-The Hero of Fereldan has a direct reason for participating in the Siege of Adamant, UNLIKE HAWKE

-The Hero of Fereldan, granted they survive the events of The Fade, has a direct reason for traveling with the Wardens no matter what decision the Inquisitor makes at the end of the quest UNLIKE HAWKE

 

Seriously, the role was PERFECT for The Hero of Fereldan. I know implementing them would've been difficult and many would've complained that the character didn't accurately match the ones they made...but they're saying that about their Hawkes anyway. IT IS POSSIBLE, AND IT COULD'VE BEEN DONE.

 

So yeah, those are my thoughts. In my "dream" plot for this game, Hawke would've been involved during the Mage/Templar plotline while The Hero of Fereldan in the Warden plotline. Thoughts?

[Snook]

I'll admit, I did spend a lot of the Warden story arc thinking 'Man, it's a shame they couldn't make the Warden work.'

Though in my perfect world it would have been her AND Hawke for Adamant. Just have the Warden as Hawke's contact I guess. I can see why it didn't happen, but...it's fun to think about.

[robertthebard]

It is not possible, and it couldn't be done. Not everyone has a surviving Warden, so we're right back where we started. Everyone had a surviving Hawke, they couldn't die at the end of their story, no matter what.

[MrMrPendragon]

The Hawke bit made sense, even though the choices on his part weren't really dilemmas or anything. There was no clear consequence in choosing one or the other.

 

The Hero of Ferelden bit, I can't say that would've worked. We still don't know what suddenly motivated the Warden to solve the mystery of the Calling. Bioware may be working on an angle here so it's hard to say where the Hero of Ferelden can be incorporated.

 

 

Edit: No Warden for Ultimate Sacrifice people. What it would go down to is Stroud or Alistair or Loghain will always die if people chose the Ultimate Sacrifice because there would only be one other npc with you.

[De Vulus]

They're obviously saving the Warden-Commander for a greater role in DA IV...Right guys?

[ElementalFury106]

I'll admit, I did spend a lot of the Warden story arc thinking 'Man, it's a shame they couldn't make the Warden work.'

Though in my perfect world it would have been her AND Hawke for Adamant. Just have the Warden as Hawke's contact I guess. I can see why it didn't happen, but...it's fun to think about.

 

Then to choose between The Hero of Fereldan or Hawke to get left behind in the Fade...ouch.

 

It is not possible, and it couldn't be done. Not everyone has a surviving Warden, so we're right back where we started. Everyone had a surviving Hawke, they couldn't die at the end of their story, no matter what.

 

Fair point, but I'm sure they could've came up with something better than Hawke, who had no legitimate ties to the plotline.

[KaiserShep]

It would have been interesting to see how the Hero of Ferelden's role in this story would shift if he/she was directly involved in the events of Adamant and we still had the options to banish the Wardens. How would the Warden reasonably react to this?

[ElementalFury106]

The Hawke bit made sense, even though the choices on his part weren't really dilemmas or anything. There was no clear consequence in choosing one or the other.

 

The Hero of Ferelden bit, I can't say that would've worked. We still don't know what suddenly motivated the Warden to solve the mystery of the Calling. Bioware may be working on an angle here so it's hard to say where the Hero of Ferelden can be incorporated.

 

 

Edit: No Warden for Ultimate Sacrifice people. What it would go down to is Stroud or Alistair or Loghain will always die if people chose the Ultimate Sacrifice because there would only be one other npc with you.

 

In my opinion they just used to it to buy themselves some time with concluding The Hero's story. The Hero will likely never been seen again, only their result with this new side story will be referenced.

 

If there was ever a time to bring back The Hero of Fereldan, it was Inquisition.

[Snook]

Then to choose between The Hero of Fereldan or Hawke to get left behind in the Fade...ouch.

It would have been like making me choose between my children.

Would have been wonderfully, deliciously cruel. :S

[veeia]

I would have loved the Warden at Adamant, but honestly, I thought the way Hawke was implemented was a huge indicator of how it would be even worse with the Warden.

My Hawke was a snarky, blood mage who evaded responsibility at all costs. In DA:I, she was a very serious and responsible person who hated blood magic and was willing to die to save the Wardens.

I mean I wasn't like throwing my controller at the screen, that's what happens when you have a PC become an NPC, but considering how Hawke was already controlled for tone and still managed to be far from what I saw her as, I can't imagine how hard it would be to do the Warden, and I don't think I'd want to see it, as attached to my Wardens as I am.

[De Vulus]

 

It is not possible, and it couldn't be done. Not everyone has a surviving Warden, so we're right back where we started. Everyone had a surviving Hawke, they couldn't die at the end of their story, no matter what.

This is why you use the Warden from Awakening expansion. Every single time someone brings this up.

[ElementalFury106]

It is not possible, and it couldn't be done. Not everyone has a surviving Warden, so we're right back where we started. Everyone had a surviving Hawke, they couldn't die at the end of their story, no matter what.

 

WAIT I JUST GOT IT. If the Hero of Fereldan is dead, then the Orlesian Warden will take their place. Now I'm sure that would've been simpler to do.

[ElementalFury106]

 

 

This is why you use the Warden from Awakening expansion. Every single time someone brings this up.

 

 

LOL damn, beat me to it by seconds. It literally just came to me.

[ElementalFury106]

It would have been like making me choose between my children.

Would have been wonderfully, deliciously cruel. :S

 

Really though, as cruel as it is, that probably would've been the toughest and best Dragon Age decision to date. Just imagine if that was reality.

[KC_Prototype]

They both could of been done and I think they will bring the Warden back in DLC just by the subtle hints of a personal mission.

[ElementalFury106]

I would have loved the Warden at Adamant, but honestly, I thought the way Hawke was implemented was a huge indicator of how it would be even worse with the Warden.

My Hawke was a snarky, blood mage who evaded responsibility at all costs. In DA:I, she was a very serious and responsible person who hated blood magic and was willing to die to save the Wardens.

I mean I wasn't like throwing my controller at the screen, that's what happens when you have a PC become an NPC, but considering how Hawke was already controlled for tone and still managed to be far from what I saw her as, I can't imagine how hard it would be to do the Warden, and I don't think I'd want to see it, as attached to my Wardens as I am.

 

I understand what you're saying, but Hawke could also be a snarky blood mage in DA:2. No matter what Hawke was like in DA:2, Hawke assumes pretty much the same character in DA:I with very minor dialogue variations. No changes in choice or philosophies though.

[LiquidLyrium]

Speak for yourself, there is no way my Hawke would get involved in heavy political crap again. Like, DA:I doesn't completely contradict the plans/headcanons I had for him, but it doesn't quite fit either--but it's also not wrong. (Also the writing was SPOT ON for my Hawke.) I mean, Hawke's storyline as presented makes a LOT more sense too if they either romanced Anders (a Warden, or at least was friendly with him) or if they have a Warden Sibling. (Hawke's sibling is one of the few family members Hawke has that is even alive--if they are alive, at this point, so they'd be pretty invested in making sure their sibling was taken care of.)

 

As for the other thing why they go north with the Wardens? DLC man. That is a thread to be resolved later, I'm sure. (And I think this DLC will kind of settle what I feel about DAI's fate for my Hawke.)

[GenericEnemy]

I know how to make the Warden work. Give a personality quiz or something on character creation. I remember the old Elder Scrolls games had one to find your class. Just...have it to find your Warden's personality/beliefs.

Would be a lot of work to incorporate but it'd be sweet to get the Warden in there too.

[veeia]

No, I imported her as a snarky Hawke. Sarcastic Hawke doesn't have very many sarcastic lines, and there was no way to import the blood mage specialization so obv they didn't intend any reactivity with that and were fine with sacrificing a huge part of my character in order to make her fit.

Which again, is fine. But I would prefer to see new characters or existing NPCs than a half version of my old character, especially since Hawke arguably still had a lot of dangling threads. The Warden has much less.

[Snook]

Hawke's sudden blood mage hate actually worked so eerily well for me I thought BioWare read my mind or something. Was a blood mage at first in my canon, but respecced and stopped using it after Leandra and started hating it at every opportunity. Headcanon validated.

[De Vulus]

No, I imported her as a snarky Hawke. Sarcastic Hawke doesn't have very many sarcastic lines, and there was no way to import the blood mage specialization so obv they didn't intend any reactivity with that and were fine with sacrificing a huge part of my character in order to make her fit.

Which again, is fine. But I would prefer to see new characters or existing NPCs than a half version of my old character, especially since Hawke arguably still had a lot of dangling threads. The Warden has much less.

It's obvious that the specs in DA:O and DA II don't really reflect anything in regards to the story/plot. 

 

Now in DA:I, Bioware seemed to hint that it could have an effect in the future. With the lack of Blood Magic spec and the possible consumption of dragon blood/lyrium and stuff.

[LiquidLyrium]

Hawke's sudden blood mage hate actually worked so eerily well for me I thought BioWare read my mind or something. Was a blood mage at first in my canon, but respecced and stopped using it after Leandra and started hating it at every opportunity. Headcanon validated.

 

Yeah, especially after seeing some of the green!Hawke options, purple!Hawke feels more right than ever. And him being kind of angry and upset all the time works for me too because after Leandra blood magic is super triggering and he basically has to give up hunting maleficarum for the sake of his mental health.

[Lord of Mu]

ElementalFury, I love the fact that you also have an epiphany while performing mundane tasks like personal grooming. Happens far too often for me.

 

Honestly I suspect Hawke was thrown into the Inquisition story because he'll be part of a future story involving the inquisition, the wardens and who knows.. maybe the story will even have Griffons in it *hint hint*. Yep, expansion or future game content.

 

I've been thinking about making a thread titled, "The Replacements" seeing as by the end of Inquisition we are down one adviser or party member. There are so many loose ends that need to be tired up right now, the Architect, the Wardens and Hawke, The Dread Wolf and Flemeth, and the future of the Inquisition all come to mind.

 

I'd certainly love to see Hawke return as a companion, especially as a Knight Enchanter / Arcane Warrior.

[atamajakki]

I'm far more disgruntled about something much more minor related to Hawke.

My Hawke was Viscountess, a hardline Templar who happily took the throne of Kirkwall. Why does she leave that position? Because her Templars suddenly started taking red lyrium. Considering that these Templars literally watched red lyrium drive Meredith insane and were then transferred to Cullen's command, there's no good reason for this. Ugh.

[Vox Draco]

So .. still discussions about why or how the Hero of Ferelden could have / should have come back? Really? Are people really wishing for this?

 

Let's just take a short look at the problems involved, and  Iam not speaking about story:

 

Warden has had no voice, now s/he would need one. People get upset because its no where near the kind of voice they imagined

 

Warden didn't surviuve the sacrifice, people get a default orlesian warden with mostly no background at all, even blander than Hawke

 

Warden is now officially supporting cast instead of main cast. Either his/her role will be only cameo-length, then why even bother in the first place about all the problems involved with that? Or a longer role, then again people could easily get upset if you give the Hero dialogue that doesn't fit, a personality that doesn't fit, and people already get upset about these isues with Hawke. Now imagine that for the Hero as well.

 

Also, in regards to the above: Do people REALLY want their beloved Warden return that way, as mere supporting-cast, reduced to a bystander? Here I again can already read posts and threads complaining why Bioware didn't make the Warden the main-char all along! Seriously, it was wise from Bioware not to touch the Warden by a mile and keep it text-only (I liked that little letter, it even is in line with my headcanon! Thnks Bioware!).

 

And Hawke? Could have been used better, but its just as tricky using her. Maybe Bioware should have avoided Hawke completly, but I persoanlly enjoyed seeing her back, and I liked that she can survive the fade and keeps living. So I can play DA2 again without any grief! Again, thanks Bioware! Good job!