81 réponses à ce sujet

[De Vulus]

So .. still discussions about why or how the Hero of Ferelden could have / should have come back? Really? Are people really wishing for this?

 

Let's just take a short look at the problems involved, and  Iam not speaking about story:

 

Warden has had no voice, now s/he would need one. People get upset because its no where near the kind of voice they imagined

 

Warden didn't surviuve the sacrifice, people get a default orlesian warden with mostly no background at all, even blander than Hawke

 

Warden is now officially supporting cast instead of main cast. Either his/her role will be only cameo-length, then why even bother in the first place about all the problems involved with that? Or a longer role, then again people could easily get upset if you give the Hero dialogue that doesn't fit, a personality that doesn't fit, and people already get upset about these isues with Hawke. Now imagine that for the Hero as well.

 

Also, in regards to the above: Do people REALLY want their beloved Warden return that way, as mere supporting-cast, reduced to a bystander? Here I again can already read posts and threads complaining why Bioware didn't make the Warden the main-char all along! Seriously, it was wise from Bioware not to touch the Warden by a mile and keep it text-only (I liked that little letter, it even is in line with my headcanon! Thnks Bioware!).

 

And Hawke? Could have been used better, but its just as tricky using her. Maybe Bioware should have avoided Hawke completly, but I persoanlly enjoyed seeing her back, and I liked that she can survive the fade and keeps living. So I can play DA2 again without any grief! Again, thanks Bioware! Good job!

Hah haa.... Like BSN wont always find something to complain about. Some people are going to be upset no matter what.

 

I'll never give up on the Warden returning and when they do, I'll have to taste all the salty tears on these forums just like it is right now.

 

Do you honestly think Bioware are afraid to include the Warden in a future installment because so many people would be upset and not buy the game? 

[Vox Draco]

Do you honestly think Bioware are afraid to include the Warden in a future installment because so many people would be upset and not buy the game? 

 

Actually no, I am even trying to find a nice story how to. It would work for me, as long as they give me a nice voice to choose, and somehow I am able to recreate her appearance as much as possible.

 

But my point mostly was: The Warden NEEDS to be main char! Why reducing him/her to suüpport role, because THAT would be the thing a majority of people would complain about. Why open a can of worms that doesn't even contribute anything to yor product despite even more complaints from the already overly-critical fanbase? bioware isn't as dumb as some people always claim them to be...

[Shelidon]

It is amazing how much you focus on your own canon, forgetting there are other scenarios. If I have to see it from my point of view, Hawke was NOT at Ostagar: her brother was there and her connection to the grey wardens totally make sense, since he is one of them. Moreover, her LI is a grey warden, so it totally makes sense that she is very much interested in the fake calling.
See?
So many variables.
As much as I enjoyed seeing my Hawke in the game, this is the reason why previous PC shouldn't be included in new games as NPC, no matter how much people scream they want them. This is the reason why I hope the Hero of Ferelden never gets included. I can hear people complaining about all sort of things, just like people are now complaining that a character who had her/his life destroyed by blood magic happens to hate blood mages. Can you imagine the complaints about the HoF? Why isn't he behaving like that? Why isn't she saying this? Why isn't it doing that? We will never ever ever hear the end of it. I sincerely hope Bioware stays strong on this.

[De Vulus]

Actually no, I am even trying to find a nice story how to. It would work for me, as long as they give me a nice voice to choose, and somehow I am able to recreate her appearance as much as possible.

 

But my point mostly was: The Warden NEEDS to be main char! Why reducing him/her to suüpport role, because THAT would be the thing a majority of people would complain about. Why open a can of worms that doesn't even contribute anything to yor product despite even more complaints from the already overly-critical fanbase? bioware isn't as dumb as some people always claim them to be...

I reread my comment and it came out looking like I was a bit too angry towards you and I apologize for that,

I also would love to see the Warden in a major role. As far as being the protagonist once again, but I doubt that has a chance of happening since all the DA games are said to star a different protagonist. I'd still love him/her as a companion or in an advisor kind of role. Even having the supporting role that Hawke had in Inquisition would be better than nothing.

[Little Princess Peach]

It is not possible, and it couldn't be done. Not everyone has a surviving Warden, so we're right back where we started. Everyone had a surviving Hawke, they couldn't die at the end of their story, no matter what.

everyone seems to forget the orlians warden commander,and if our warden was dead stroud would take there place simples

[Shelidon]

everyone seems to forget the orlians warden commander

Yes, everyone seems to be doing that. Keep tapestry included.

[De Vulus]

We will never ever ever hear the end of it. I sincerely hope Bioware stays strong on this. 

Dragon Age Inquisition won GOTY at the Game Awards, has received very positive reviews from critics and seems to be selling just fine.

 

And every day I come on these forums, I see a post complaining about something. I don't care if people feel the need to vent here about Bioware's decisions. The game can be as good as anything and we'll hear people complain all the time.

 

I've never even played Mass Effect 3 and all the s**t I hear about it's ending everywhere seems ridiculous. Another universally acclaimed game and everyone just keeps talking about it's flaws two years after it's release.

 

Yes, everyone seems to be doing that. Keep tapestry included.

How is the Keep forgetting it?

 

The first thing choice there is whether HoF lives or died. If you choose the one where the HoF died, you can automatically assume that the Orleasian Warden-Commander was the one in Awakening.

[Bakgrind]

It is not possible, and it couldn't be done. Not everyone has a surviving Warden, so we're right back where we started. Everyone had a surviving Hawke, they couldn't die at the end of their story, no matter what.

 

I really see that as being a non issue concerning Not  everyone having a surviving Warden when you take into account that the main antagonist in Inquisition only exists in DA 2 if you purchased the Legacy dlc. Just imagine your Hawke trying to explain to the Inquisitor  about this villain if he never saw him in in DA 2.

[Shelidon]

Dragon Age Inquisition won GOTY at the Game Awards, has received very positive reviews from critics and seems to be selling just fine.
And every day I come on these forums, I see a post complaining about something. I don't care if people feel the need to vent here about Bioware's decisions. The game can be as good as anything and we'll hear people complain all the time.
I've never even played Mass Effect 3 and all the s**t I hear about it's ending everywhere seems ridiculous. Another universally acclaimed game and everyone just keeps talking about it's flaws two years after it's release.
How is the Keep forgetting it?
The first thing choice there is whether HoF lives or died. If you choose the one where the HoF died, you can automatically assume that the Orleasian Warden-Commander was the one in Awakening.

I don't understand if you thought I was complaining or not. Just in case, I wasn't. I appreciate Hawke just as much as I appreciate that the HoF is not in the game: he/she's just too complex and varied to get it right. This is why usually, even when you master PnP rpg, you never ever ever include pc's as npc's. There's a perfectly good reason for this and I really hope Bioware resists the urge to try and please her fans because including the HoF is just a recipee for disaster.

Regarding the Orlesian Warden, there were requests to include him/her in the Keep properly, back in the beta testing days, and not as a mere unnamed consequence of a Ultimate Sacrifice Warden. It hasn't been done yet, although we got a promise that it will be done in the future. It's a pity: I would have liked to see my Leonie being mentioned at least in text on the war table. Still, it's no big deal.

[De Vulus]

I don't understand if you thought I was complaining or not. Just in case, I wasn't.

You said people would be complaining about the HoF not being what they're supposed to be. I said that people will always be complaining about something anyways.

[Aurok]

Is there ever a scene between Cassandra and Hawke? Considering the lengths she went to to find him I was expecting one. I didn't take Cass to Adamant (/The Fade) though, so maybe they get chatty there?

[Shelidon]

You said people would be complaining about the HoF not being what they're supposed to be. I said that people will always be complaining about something anyways.

Now I understand your point. I would like to think that Bioware doesn't give a damn but still, I think that a certain volume of complaints can rise to become relevant. It's marketing.

[Shelidon]

Is there ever a scene between Cassandra and Hawke? Considering the lengths she went to to find him I was expecting one. I didn't take Cass to Adamant (/The Fade) though, so maybe they get chatty there?

They don't talk to eqch other, nor does she talk to Cullen. The only person you see her talking to is Varric. I suspect content was cut, in this particular instance.

[Shelidon]

Double post.

[dsl08002]

Bioware can go and do a ME3 debacle here, considering that there are many who doesnt want the warden to appear on BSN we assume that the ones who are quiet wants the warden to come back.

But there is no doubt that everything we thought would happen after DA2 hasnt come true.

[De Vulus]

Now I understand your point. I would like to think that Bioware doesn't give a damn but still, I think that a certain volume of complaints can rise to become relevant. It's marketing.

Well from what I've heard, the complains about Mass Effect 3 were endless and as far as I know, it sold extremely well.

 

Dragon Age II didn't seem to sell extremely well, but I hardly think this is due to the complaints of fans. More so because the finished product didn't receive as positive reviews.

[Vox Draco]

The most clever thing Bioware can do regarding Hawke and the Warden in a future-title is: Move the timeline 30 or even 40 years ahead. Nobody would miss a 70 year old Hawke/Warden, nobody would complain they are not around.

 

And I am fully expecting a major time-warp next game, maybe not as much as this, but enough to justify old heroes not needing a comeback or cameo. Get rid of some baggage and go fresh into a new adventure. I'd like that.

 

Of course people would still get nostalgic and complain anyhow, but that is half the fun of BSN anyway...

[Lord of Mu]

The most clever thing Bioware can do regarding Hawke and the Warden in a future-title is: Move the timeline 30 or even 40 years ahead. Nobody would miss a 70 year old Hawke/Warden, nobody would complain they are not around.

 

And I am fully expecting a major time-warp next game, maybe not as much as this, but enough to justify old heroes not needing a comeback or cameo. Get rid of some baggage and go fresh into a new adventure. I'd like that.

 

Of course people would still get nostalgic and complain anyhow, but that is half the fun of BSN anyway...

 

Or just give us a book or three. I'd be happy either way. Of course I don't come here to complain.

[Rawgrim]

The Warden doesn't work because he can dual wield swords, and do all kinds of stuff DA2 and DA:I felt should be restricted.

[ZoliCs]

Warden has had no voice, now s/he would need one. People get upset because its no where near the kind of voice they imagined

 

Warden didn't surviuve the sacrifice, people get a default orlesian warden with mostly no background at all, even blander than Hawke

 

Warden is now officially supporting cast instead of main cast. Either his/her role will be only cameo-length, then why even bother in the first place about all the problems involved with that? Or a longer role, then again people could easily get upset if you give the Hero dialogue that doesn't fit, a personality that doesn't fit, and people already get upset about these isues with Hawke. Now imagine that for the Hero as well.

 

Also, in regards to the above: Do people REALLY want their beloved Warden return that way, as mere supporting-cast, reduced to a bystander? Here I again can already read posts and threads complaining why Bioware didn't make the Warden the main-char all along! Seriously, it was wise from Bioware not to touch the Warden by a mile and keep it text-only (I liked that little letter, it even is in line with my headcanon! Thnks Bioware!).

1. Revan didn't have a voice either, so that argument is invalid.

2. So? Stroud didn't have a huge background either...

3. Only the vocal minority would be upset. There are far more people who would like (or don't mind) if the Warden returns than those who whine about everything.

4. Anything is better than that 1 single letter we got (unless they do have big plans for the HoF and the Calling)

[berrieh]

This is why you use the Warden from Awakening expansion. Every single time someone brings this up.

 

It's not that people "forget" it. It's that the two Wardens are not equal. (How many people auto-rezzed their Wardens to play DAA, and this issue was a problem even then that BioWare has acknowledged.) Now, I think BioWare clearly toyed around with putting a living HoF into the potential Loghain/Alistair/Stroud role. (This is my assumption - I have no proof. But they did mention they thought about ways to bring the HoF back and decided strongly against it.) And that role is already not equal, but it makes sense in that role to have a Warden. Any Warden we know. But the HoF is too much work for such a role (3 possible races of different heights/builds, no voice, no set personality types, etc).

 

They're not going to do a whole big thing with the HoF because too many people's are dead. They're not going to do anything with the HoF because it would be a whole big thing to try to recreate the HoF. The HoF's story is over. The best you'll get from here on out are notes (and the note in this game was well done and interesting) until the HoF dies offscreen, maybe in a time jump between games. Maybe someday the BSN will accept it. 

 

As to Hawke being wrong, if Hawke has a Warden-sibling or romanced or even stayed on good terms with a living Anders, not only does it feel plausible, it feels completely on-the-nose for him/her to be in the story. It has less impact without the Warden sibling, but Hawke still was there when they let Cory into the world. I don't see anything implausible about Hawke looking into red lyrium, which is how he/she initially got involved with the Warden (Stroud, Alistair, Loghain) in the story. The same way Varric has an attachment to the issue, Hawke would as well. They essentially "unleashed" it on the world and were impacted by it very, very directly. Remember Hawke isn't initially investigating Cory - though that fits plenty too - but red lyrium, which we know later seems to have the Blight, so if Hawke had any inkling of that, talking to the Warden makes perfect sense. Then he/she learns Wardens are missing, and that's very clearly trouble. 

[Rifneno]

The most clever thing Bioware can do regarding Hawke and the Warden in a future-title is: Move the timeline 30 or even 40 years ahead. Nobody would miss a 70 year old Hawke/Warden, nobody would complain they are not around.

 

And I am fully expecting a major time-warp next game, maybe not as much as this, but enough to justify old heroes not needing a comeback or cameo. Get rid of some baggage and go fresh into a new adventure. I'd like that.

 

Of course people would still get nostalgic and complain anyhow, but that is half the fun of BSN anyway...

That's a trick that can only be pulled once.  We're supposed to stay in the Dragon Age.  58 more years, and it's going to be the next age.

 

If I were a woman, I'd run for Divine so that I could name it the Retcon Age in honor of DA2.

[Vox Draco]

1. Revan didn't have a voice either, so that argument is invalid.

2. So? Stroud didn't have a huge background either...

3. Only the vocal minority would be upset. There are far more people who would like (or don't mind) if the Warden returns than those who whine about everything.

4. Anything is better than that 1 single letter we got (unless they do have big plans for the HoF and the Calling)

1. Revan never returned fully voiced in a sequel, so the comparison to my argument is invalid. WAIT! Revan DID return in TOR ... as a guy...which makes it even worse for me...the thing I wanted to make clear here is: Some people already get upset a

bout a NEW hero being voiced and that hurting their imagination somehow, now if their beloved Warden returns with an unfitting one? I personally don't mind, I am just showing possible futures here...

2.I actually don't care much about that point ^^

3. Do not underestimate this. People that want back "their" Warden want him/her back with grace and dignity, not just passing by saying hello into the camera. For a future game maybe, but placing a revered hero of teh fans as mere support for a new hero undermines both in the end.

4. No, its not. If "anything" means my concerns already pointed out (a lame, unfitting cameo) it does more hurt than good!

 

That's a trick that can only be pulled once.  We're supposed to stay in the Dragon Age.  58 more years, and it's going to be the next age.

 

If I were a woman, I'd run for Divine so that I could name it the Retcon Age in honor of DA2.

 

And actually I would love a DA4 that truly utterly ravages Thedas from North to South, uttering a new age, allowing everything to start from scrap ... of course the franchise is called Dragon Age but...yeah I know what you mean...but I don't think that matters this much...its just a franchise name that sounds cool, we don't really need to play during the age of the same name ... ^^

[choebit]

It is not possible, and it couldn't be done. Not everyone has a surviving Warden, so we're right back where we started. Everyone had a surviving Hawke, they couldn't die at the end of their story, no matter what.

Not everyone had a surviving leliana.
Yet BioWare decide to bring her back along with lazy explanation...

One can stab morrigan back in DAO.
Yet BioWare decide that morrigan always survive.

See? Not everyone had a surviving HoF is just a lazy excuse and double standard.

[herkles]

How would people react if bioware wrote their warden differently then how they imagined their warden? probaly bad IMO