80 réponses à ce sujet

[Sylvius the Mad]

I always avoid melee classes if I can.  So maybe that's why I'm not seeing the problems.

[AlanC9]

As a life-long PC gamer and owner of about 300 titles of various genres - I don't have any real issue with DA:I controls at all. Not sure what all the fuss is about.

The fuss generally comes from people who haven't played that many games and genres.

[Fredward]

I always avoid melee classes if I can.  So maybe that's why I'm not seeing the problems.

 

It's pretty frustrating. You need to keep one hand on the mouse to keep auto-attacking, you need to keep the other hand on the W key so you don't stand there stabbing the air like a derp then that hand needs to be splayed in such a way that you might actually be able to tap some ability buttons and you can't really move around the battlefield that way which is really important if you're playing a dagger rogue. It's not the kind of thing that just accidentally slips through QA, it feels like a very much pre-determined decision about which group they could afford to completely neglect.

 

It's awkwardness is my only issue with the setup though. I don't have a problem while I'm playing ranged and while I don't use the tac cam much/ever the clumsiness there feels more like my inexperience than a problem inherent with the system.

[In Exile]

It's pretty frustrating. You need to keep one hand on the mouse to keep auto-attacking, you need to keep the other hand on the W key so you don't stand there stabbing the air like a derp then that hand needs to be splayed in such a way that you might actually be able to tap some ability buttons and you can't really move around the battlefield that way which is really important if you're playing a dagger rogue. It's not the kind of thing that just accidentally slips through QA, it feels like a very much pre-determined decision about which group they could afford to completely neglect.

It's awkwardness is my only issue with the setup though. I don't have a problem while I'm playing ranged and while I don't use the tac cam much/ever the clumsiness there feels more like my inexperience than a problem inherent with the system.

If you're going to play a melee character in action mode, then you have to play it in real time as an action game. There are skills - especially 2H warrior - that only work effectively with careful reflex based timing. The same applies to dual wield rogues.

It's not about ignoring PC. It's that with their game design being stuck with auto-attack only and click to move would mean a substantial portions of the encounters are just a war against pathfinding.

Point to click doesn't work well with a game that has a z-axis and heavily damaging boss AOEs that require dodging.

[Cette]

I've managed to adjust to everything else but in melee the way your character seems to pick targets at random ahen things get messy is still driving me crazy. In single player it's livable as I can wuickly pause and correct but in multiplayer it's gotten me killed a fair few times.

Is it seriously that hard to make my guy target wjoever I've got the camera pointed at instead flailing wildly at someone behind me who isn't even on screen?

Also auto moving to interactable objects would be grand.

[metatheurgist]

It's pretty frustrating. You need to keep one hand on the mouse to keep auto-attacking, you need to keep the other hand on the W key so you don't stand there stabbing the air like a derp then that hand needs to be splayed in such a way that you might actually be able to tap some ability buttons and you can't really move around the battlefield that way which is really important if you're playing a dagger rogue. It's not the kind of thing that just accidentally slips through QA, it feels like a very much pre-determined decision about which group they could afford to completely neglect.
 
It's awkwardness is my only issue with the setup though. I don't have a problem while I'm playing ranged and while I don't use the tac cam much/ever the clumsiness there feels more like my inexperience than a problem inherent with the system.

Yep, it's heaps of fun. I love getting caught on the landscape when I'm trying to attack, so I also have to jump to attack like I'm playing Prince of Persia. The "`" and "1" are right next to each other so sometimes I switch on the console while I'm trying to attack and it takes me a while to see the string of "111111wwwww22333311111" across the screen while my PC stands around and takes it in the face. Fortunately the action combat is so easy that I don't have to try on normal mode to win fights.

[Fredward]

If you're going to play a melee character in action mode, then you have to play it in real time as an action game. There are skills - especially 2H warrior - that only work effectively with careful reflex based timing. The same applies to dual wield rogues.

It's not about ignoring PC. It's that with their game design being stuck with auto-attack only and click to move would mean a substantial portions of the encounters are just a war against pathfinding.

Point to click doesn't work well with a game that has a z-axis and heavily damaging boss AOEs that require dodging.

 

Kay but that doesn't address anything I said.

 

 

Yep, it's heaps of fun. I love getting caught on the landscape when I'm trying to attack, so I also have to jump to attack like I'm playing Prince of Persia. The "`" and "1" are right next to each other so sometimes I switch on the console while I'm trying to attack and it takes me a while to see the string of "111111wwwww22333311111" across the screen while my PC stands around and takes it in the face. Fortunately the action combat is so easy that I don't have to try on normal mode to win fights.

 

IKR? Died in dragon fights because of that.
 

[Akka le Vil]

As a life-long PC gamer and owner of about 300 titles of various genres - I don't have any real issue with DA:I controls at all. Not sure what all the fuss is about. The tactical camera management is a bit weird, but I feel like this action-RPG has no need for it anyway. Don't use it.

 

As for everything else - the KB&M controls are similar to what countless other games are like as-well. Not sure what people have issues with...

 

Yeah, I feel you !

I mean, I'm left-handed, and I don't understand why these weird right-handed people have trouble with having the mouse on the left and KB on the right. I also don't understand the fuss when they try to play on my comp and they realize I use the inverted X-axis in all games.

 

People can't adapt, I tell you !

 

/sarcasm

[Innsmouth Dweller]

controls are inconsistent (with the rest of DA games, i don't play aRPGs much) and unintuitive (click five keys to move tactical cam with your mouse - i would be fine with WSAD if the damn zoom wasn't so crappy). remapping doesn't help because you cannot map every action and you cannot map mouse movement.

combat in this game is beyond frustrating, i find switching to Sera midcombat relaxing, seriously. cannot do nightmare PT just because combat is NO FUN for me. i see flashes of light on the tac-cam view but have no idea what's going on unless i look at the minimap and characters bars to assess the situation

 

and no movement to interact? wth?

 

i gave up waiting for the control patch; 2nd attempt to play the game - so far it's ok-ish with mage, but still cannot go above normal difficulty because that would mean micromanagement (obviously, no AI) and controlling tank. nuh-uh

[Jam_Sandwich]

Playing through as a mage at the moment for this reason. Though having to stop every now and again due to getting cramp in my mouse hand.

Originally wanted to do a Dwarf Warrior but that's off the cards at the moment

[Greetsme]

BioWare said, somewhere, that PC improvements, controls and interface alike, are on their to-do list. Don't think they gave us an ETA, however.

 

Under normal circumstances, this would be acceptable, but we have all become aware that Bioware's middle name is 'we tell porky's because we know you will believe any old garbage we throw at you'

[Fredward]

but we have all become aware that Bioware's middle name is 'we tell porky's because we know you will believe any old garbage we throw at you'

 

Either I missed something major or you're a jaded soul.

[Sylvius the Mad]

It's pretty frustrating. You need to keep one hand on the mouse to keep auto-attacking, you need to keep the other hand on the W key so you don't stand there stabbing the air like a derp then that hand needs to be splayed in such a way that you might actually be able to tap some ability buttons and you can't really move around the battlefield that way which is really important if you're playing a dagger rogue. It's not the kind of thing that just accidentally slips through QA, it feels like a very much pre-determined decision about which group they could afford to completely neglect.

This is why I use the Tac Cam for every encounter.

[Sylvius the Mad]

If you're going to play a melee character in action mode, then you have to play it in real time as an action game. There are skills - especially 2H warrior - that only work effectively with careful reflex based timing. The same applies to dual wield rogues.

The AI isn't terrible at using those timing-based abilities, but I'm disappointed that it's markedly worse than it could have been.

A player-controlled Rogue, in Action Mode, could theoretically Parry every melee attack against it (controlled by me, it would parry none of them). But an AI-controlled Rogue will Parry only some of the melee attacks it faces. That the performance of a character can change that wildly when controlled by the player is immensely frustrating.

For what rate of Parrying success is the game balanced?

[Djoffer]

This game have some problems, but cant really see that the controll is a big deal, could be smoother but i have no problems playing my rogue with mouse+keyboard... Of course until they fix the stupid memory leak or whatever is causing that horrible lag every time i have played for more than 30 minutes, i wont play it Again:( And yes  Bioware used to be one of the devs. i was really comfortable with buying from day one, not any more...

[Darkly Tranquil]

This game have some problems, but cant really see that the controll is a big deal, could be smoother but i have no problems playing my rogue with mouse+keyboard... Of course until they fix the stupid memory leak or whatever is causing that horrible lag every time i have played for more than 30 minutes, i wont play it Again:( And yes  Bioware used to be one of the devs. i was really comfortable with buying from day one, not any more...

Bioware never fixed the Origins memory leak, so don't hold your breath for them to fix this one either. All you can do is log out and relaunch every so often.

[Serenade]

Whatever guys. Happy holidays!

[alchemist42]

How come you can’t click on a character and then click on the ground to move there but in tactical mode you can? Obviously the code is there so why didn’t the devs implement it…?

 

I’m forever clicking on team members to select and going into combat mode by accident and killing half the wild life.   Bloody annoying!

[In Exile]

Kay but that doesn't address anything I said.

It addresses exactly what you said. Most PC games with KBM and an action scheme like DAI have the same issue with responsiveness in melee. Tactical camera wouldn't solve it, it would make even more problems even if the angle was better. Youd have characters stuck on rocks because they can't auto-jump. This is why you get ranged characters rushing into melee sometimes.

[AlanC9]

A player-controlled Rogue, in Action Mode, could theoretically Parry every melee attack against it (controlled by me, it would parry none of them). But an AI-controlled Rogue will Parry only some of the melee attacks it faces. That the performance of a character can change that wildly when controlled by the player is immensely frustrating.

For what rate of Parrying success is the game balanced?

Yeah, this is a serious conceptual problem when combining action elements with party play. IIRC in the ME games the squadmates have fairly low accuracy relative to (most) Shepards. But having the PC be the most powerful character in the game is fairly traditional.

[AlanC9]

If you're going to play a melee character in action mode, then you have to play it in real time as an action game. There are skills - especially 2H warrior - that only work effectively with careful reflex based timing. The same applies to dual wield rogues.

Anyone else get the feeling that maybe the real design issue is that it's so binary? It's like Bio figured that there were two major classes of players. You have the action players who will play DAI like it's a straight-up action game, and on the other side you've got the tactical players who are going to micromanage everything anyway. I can see how the detailed Tactics system fell out of scope if that really was the thinking -- micromanagers won't use them anyway, and action guys won't really care.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Yeah, this is a serious conceptual problem when combining action elements with party play. IIRC in the ME games the squadmates have fairly low accuracy relative to (most) Shepards. But having the PC be the most powerful character in the game is fairly traditional.

But in DAI it's not the PC. If the player is skilled, it's the player-controlled character that excels. If the player is not skilled, it's the AI characters who excel.

And it may not be the PC who is controlled. In my DW Rogue playthrough, I almost never take direct control of the PC.

And regardless, the rules of the setting should apply equally to all characters.

In ME2 and ME3, could the squadmates miss? Because Shepard couldn't miss unless the player chose to have him miss.

[In Exile]

Anyone else get the feeling that maybe the real design issue is that it's so binary? It's like Bio figured that there were two major classes of players. You have the action players who will play DAI like it's a straight-up action game, and on the other side you've got the tactical players who are going to micromanage everything anyway. I can see how the detailed Tactics system fell out of scope if that really was the thinking -- micromanagers won't use them anyway, and action guys won't really care.

DAI really fits my play style well. I had to fix the key bindings and it took me a bit to understand the combat system but for me the flow between action mode and tactical mode is great. The UI needs more work, and melee could use some polish, but the real issue is people not getting the synergy in melee and playing it as if the game was 2D and hex based.

As a warrior you're not supposed to WASD your way around the battlefield to close. You need to use abilities. That's either the hook, your taunts, charging bull, or lunge and slash. Melee attacks are there to use between cooldowns.

If you want to stand still and auto-attack + spam mighty blow like DAO or even DA2 (which had melee characters auto close) then you're out of luck.

I'm not saying that this is a good change even though I like it. I'm just saying that there's a huge disconnect. I think people want this game to be IWD or BG2 when it isn't. Maybe that means Bioware didn't make a game you liked. But it's not a design failure in the sense they set out to do it and failed.

[Chaos17]

Anyone else get the feeling that maybe the real design issue is that it's so binary? It's like Bio figured that there were two major classes of players. You have the action players who will play DAI like it's a straight-up action game, and on the other side you've got the tactical players who are going to micromanage everything anyway. I can see how the detailed Tactics system fell out of scope if that really was the thinking -- micromanagers won't use them anyway, and action guys won't really care.

We will never know.

 

[otis0310]

You know what you're getting when you buy a console game. It's the same every time.

From Mordor, to Creed. From Dragon Age, to the Witcher. It's all Kraft dinner.

 

I would like to agree with you here friend, and for the most part I do, but there are several examples where it is not. For instance the recent XCom: Enemy Unkown came out on Xbox.  This is a tactical squad based, and turn based, strategy game.  It does not by any stretch of the imagination qualify as a button mashing game, that's for certain.  However, I am certain this the exception not the rule.

 

In fact basically ever since the Atari 2600 hit the market back in the early 80's almost every console had two things in common.

 

1.   They were all action games.

 

2.   They were all inferior to the PCs of there era, technologically speaking that is. Even the 2600 did not have the graphical abilities of the Atari 800 personal computer of the era. 

 

This is a trend that still continues today.