24 réponses à ce sujet

[Storm_Changer]

Hi all, 

 

Alot of users have shown they're unhappy with the current loot system in place, as they feel they don't have the choice to slowly but steadily progress into getting uniques. I have one solution that I haven't seen suggested yet, which doesn't actually change the loot system at all, but may well alleviate the problem altogether. 

 

Let us trade with each other. In exchange for gold [and perhaps even platinum, a standard gold > platinum conversion could be set.] 

 

This removes the RNG element AND reinforces it. Users would then have a choice between saving up for a guaranteed awesome weapon, which would no doubt be pricey, or randomly spend their gold in the hopes of getting some cool loot. The key point here is that users would have a choice, but it would not require fundamentally changing the store or the way micro-transactions work. 

 

The store could have one/two key functions - an Auction house where items are sold over a set period to the highest bidder, and/or simply allowing users to buy and sell items instantly, with no auction involved. 

 

Going further, materials, armours, accessories AND runes could also be added to the mix. Users could buy the materials with gold - or platinum - to unlock the characters they want to play easily and quickly. This would add to the initial replay-ability of the game, as it can be quite slow work unlocking all of the classes. You could even allow users to create armour packs - containing all unlockable classes - for a certain number of materials, which could then be sold as a convenience. 

 

This trade house could be provided as a tab within the multi-player menu, there's plenty of room to fit it in. 

 

I get that it's quite an MMORPG thing to do, but I don't see many arguments for why this would be bad - for both developers and players. By all means, let me know if there's any points of contention though. 

[TurianRebels]

I think trading is a way to go, but it opens up so much other negatives that it might not be worth.
Like gold farmers, for instance. I like not having anyone trying to sell me DAMP items.
Wasn't Diablo 3 a bit sketchy as far as item market?

[veramis]

My issues with trading in this game:

 

1. The MP is quite too small to have enough items or players to warrant trading

2. It still suffers from things being entirely RNG, without the ability for people to farm specific enemies for specific items

3. Smart traders will be able to accumulate a lot, while players who don't know better or are desperate for a shiny shield for her templar will trade a griffon bow for it without knowing what a bad mistake she is making.

4. I don't trust bioware to program anything so complex.

[N7 Tigger]

EA won't allow it.

[Apl_Juice]

Its not going to happen. The current system accomplishes everything they need it to. If ME3's MP is any indication, plenty of people are buying chests, and others who don't will still play because it is just fair enough not to scare them away.

[Yumi]

Trading is a terrible idea.

The leaders on the leaderboard will only strengthen their positions amongst each other.

The poor will remain poor. So I see little upside for this idea.

Adopting trading means lowering the amount and rate of microtransactions, so the company will never implement this. If trading is allowed the RNG system means nothing. Trading applies as a lame patch on an RNG system.

You should reliable the thread "eliminating RNG system". Then trading won't be necessary. But that will never happen unless they have a new microtransaction model, and that seems more unlikely.

[Storm_Changer]

 

I think trading is a way to go, but it opens up so much other negatives that it might not be worth.
Like gold farmers, for instance. I like not having anyone trying to sell me DAMP items.
Wasn't Diablo 3 a bit sketchy as far as item market?

 

Gold farmers is a point I hadn't considered. Some games and MMO's have ways to overcome them, but it's pretty costly to develop. Maybe if enemies and enemy locations were randomized - so nothing was exactly the same in each floor - bots wouldn't be able to be made effectively? And there is the item market to consider as well. It would take sometime to stabilise. But since both money and items have sinks and generators, it seems like it is an ideal game for a market. 

 

 

My issues with trading in this game:

 

1. The MP is quite too small to have enough items or players to warrant trading

2. It still suffers from things being entirely RNG, without the ability for people to farm specific enemies for specific items

3. Smart traders will be able to accumulate a lot, while players who don't know better or are desperate for a shiny shield for her templar will trade a griffon bow for it without knowing what a bad mistake she is making.

4. I don't trust bioware to program anything so complex.

 

1. It will hopefully expand, both in content and hopefully in turn player base

2. They can farm gold generally, which allows the flexibility of buying any item they want or risking it all in chests

3. This is true. But past a point there wouldn't be much to be gained from hoarding gold. And some users already hoard gold anyway, whilst others [like myself] impulsively spend it. 

4. I think once they've dealt with the bugs they'll have alot more time for DLC and the like, equally so they'll have more time to ensure it's of a good quality [hopefully.] 

 

 

EA won't allow it.

 

It could be of direct benefit to them, as it's more avenues for microtransactions and could aid with player retention. Hard to say though. 

 

 

Its not going to happen. The current system accomplishes everything they need it to. If ME3's MP is any indication, plenty of people are buying chests, and others who don't will still play because it is just fair enough not to scare them away.

 

I haven't played ME3, but alot of users are complaining that one could progress through weapons in ME3, which can't be done in DAIMP. The current system isn't conducive to micro-transactions or short-term (ish) retention, so the markets could fill a niche in that regard. *Could is probably the operative word. I think it would be easier than reworking the entire loot system and annoying customers who've already paid for micro-transactions, but I'm not sure. 

 

 

Trading is a terrible idea.

The leaders on the leaderboard will only strengthen their positions amongst each other.

The poor will remain poor. So I see little upside for this idea.

Adopting trading means lowering the amount and rate of microtransactions, so the company will never implement this. If trading is allowed the RNG system means nothing. Trading applies as a lame patch on an RNG system.

You should reliable the thread "eliminating RNG system". Then trading won't be necessary. But that will never happen unless they have a new microtransaction model, and that seems more unlikely.

 

Past a certain point gold would be of no use, there's a limit after which point your gear cannot be improved further. You can't buy challenges or anything like that, so I don't see how it would make those already hyper-competitive players pull even further ahead, as chances are they already have masses of gold and a completed repertoire of weapons and the like. They're also a very small minority, which is something to consider. 

 

Trading could be done in both gold or platinum. I'm sure plenty of players would pay decent money to acquire uniques instantly, rather than investing literally hundreds of hours to acquire them. It would also let users directly unlock all classes and gear through micro-transactions in a consistent way, so it's more appealing to the consumer than the current RNG model [which theoretically would mean more sales.] 

 

RNG would still be a viable option, and it would also be a way to stabilize the trading economy. Users could make a pretty penny gambling and hitting the jack pot. They could also sell uniques for classes they don't use and buy uniques for classes they do use, or even trade them directly across. 

[Chromatone]

It's simple sell schematics and uniques for very high price with what's available changing every day. They need to implement more incentive to log in in and see what you can get regularly. Take a cue from successful mobile games for stuff like this.

[Chromatone]

Bah you can't edit your posts on here? Always think of more to say after it's too late. People would be waaaay more likely to drop cash if they see a powerful item for their fave class ticking down. They can easily expand the game with more gear with varying stats. The world and mechanics of DA are rich enough there is truly no end to what they could do with multi player.

[HowYouSoGudd]

Also if they added a market or any form of trading, they would most likely need to nerf drop rates even more, else the market would be over flooded in no time.

 

A better solution would be adding complex schematics and ilvl tiered chests. The problem i see with DAMP isn't as much the rng but the lack of purpose that comes along with the current system. Its just keep spamming chests hoping something good drops while piling up on useless mats that are going to rot in your storage.

[Yumi]

Did you even see what the real money auction house did to D3 in the beginning?

Even if you are trading in platinum an gold and doing direct trade etc, you're gonna have a bad D3 season 1 time

Any flow between in game currency and real world currency almost never works. And incredibly encourages boting/ currency farming. The only and I mean only instance where a free flow of RL money and in game money works is when only comestic items and other small boosts are the stuff being traded. Team fortress etc. or LoL skin trading would work. Since the items of this game are essentially the most important aspect of clearing missions, free flow trade will eventually destroy the system. It's just waaaaay to high risk for such a small percentage of success, and that success is not guaranteed 100% it might only work 50 or 20 or 10%.

Chromatose's idea on the other hand is great. The psychology is spot on. And I'm the kind of dope that's falls for that kind of stuff lol.

[Storm_Changer]

Also if they added a market or any form of trading, they would most likely need to nerf drop rates even more, else the market would be over flooded in no time.

 

A better solution would be adding complex schematics and ilvl tiered chests. The problem i see with DAMP isn't as much the rng but the lack of purpose that comes along with the current system. Its just keep spamming chests hoping something good drops while piling up on useless mats that are going to rot in your storage.

 

The game has a natural flow of weapons in > Weapons out and gold in > gold out. This makes it somewhat easier to standardize to an extent, as weapons will always be tied to their perceived value and/or the value of the materials you can get from salvaging them. I like your solution too, but the issue therein is that people who have supported the game with micro-transactions thus far will feel cheated, which is not appealing. 

 

Did you even see what the real money auction house did to D3 in the beginning?

Even if you are trading in platinum an gold and doing direct trade etc, you're gonna have a bad D3 season 1 time

Any flow between in game currency and real world currency almost never works. And incredibly encourages boting/ currency farming. The only and I mean only instance where a free flow of RL money and in game money works is when only comestic items and other small boosts are the stuff being traded. Team fortress etc. or LoL skin trading would work. Since the items of this game are essentially the most important aspect of clearing missions, free flow trade will eventually destroy the system. It's just waaaaay to high risk for such a small percentage of success, and that success is not guaranteed 100% it might only work 50 or 20 or 10%.

Chromatose's idea on the other hand is great. The psychology is spot on. And I'm the kind of dope that's falls for that kind of stuff lol.

 

There's lots of differences between D3, Blizzard and DAIMP, Bioware. I wouldn't assume because one was poor another would be. There's numerous examples of rwt working without botting, like Runescape 3. [Botting technology.] I don't know how viable it is, or even how likely it is bots would farm a game with a low-ish MP population, so I can't really comment. We have no idea how likely it is to work or fail, so meh. 

 

I like Chromatose's idea, but it's still RNG rather than some form of actual progression. And would it have to be bought with gold or platinum? Users shouldn't have to pay to progress. It's definitely a consideration, though. 

[-PenguinFetish-]

Im not aware of any problem to the loot system. My only issue is the low level uniques. Please stop making threads complaing about everything. This is a combat strategy forum after all, not a 'tell a multi million dollar studio how to do their job' forum. 

[Storm_Changer]

Im not aware of any problem to the loot system. My only issue is the low level uniques. Please stop making threads complaing about everything. This is a combat strategy forum after all, not a 'tell a multi million dollar studio how to do their job' forum. 

 

Multiple users would agree and disagree - hence the quotation marks.

 

Just because you don't have an issue, that doesn't mean no-one else does.

 

Providing a suggestion isn't complaining. Read the OP. 

 

There is no sub-forum for suggestions.

 

A suggestion is not a demand. 

[Miclotov]

I think trading is a way to go, but it opens up so much other negatives that it might not be worth.
Like gold farmers, for instance. I like not having anyone trying to sell me DAMP items.
Wasn't Diablo 3 a bit sketchy as far as item market?

 

It totally was.

 

In my opinion the problem at hand is that rng plays a too important role in the current system. In ME 3 the weapons where capped at level 10, but here you cant get hundreds of "not so good staff" and so on. If we could apply that system here it would be a less random experience to open the chests. Instead of giving us more consumables we could get a small bag of crafting materials from a chest.

[veramis]

I like Mortiel's class-specific chest idea. And Miclotov's crafting chest idea is good too. We know now with the commendation chests that bioware is capable of creating new chests without causing you to force shutdown your computer, so there might be hope yet for something other than large chests of disappointment.

[Storm_Changer]

Personally, I think trading would cheapen the experience. Yes, RNG is most of the time a pain, but it also lengthens the grind, which keeps more people playing for longer. If I instantly had all the top-tier uniques for all my classes, I really would have no desire to play until a DLC dropped. At that point, I'd play until I acquired all the best from that DLC, then stop again, if I even was going to pick up the game again.

Aside, I liked the structure of ME3MP pack tiers, all purchasable via gold or platinum:

• Rookie (5 items, all commons) for 5k credits
• Veteran (5 items, at least one guaranteed uncommon) for 20k credits
• Premium (5 items, at least one rare) for 60k credits
• Ultra Premium (10 items, at least two rare, higher chance for ultra rare) for 90k credits

However, to argue against myself: The chest tiers in ME3MP works because once you had a specific item maxed in level or quantity, you would no longer see that item drop. DAMP would have issues with that as you can get multiples of a single item, sometimes with slightly better/worse stats. The only way I'd see to help this is with this structure:

• Small Chest (5 items, Loot Level 1-10) for 400 gold
• Medium Chest (7 items, Loot Level 5-15) for 800 gold
• Large Chest (10 items, Loot Level 10-20 for 1200 gold
• Premium Large Chest (10 items, Loot Level 15-25, better rare/unique chance) 2000 gold

Alternatively, Bioware could even add class specialized chests, like:

• Apprentice Chest (5 items, one guaranteed level 1-15 mage weapon or upgrade) 800 gold
• Mage Chest (5 items, one guaranteed level 10-20 mage weapon or upgrade) 1600 gold
• Enchanter Chest (5 items, one guaranteed level 15-25 mage weapon or upgrade) 2400 gold

Repeat that for vanguard warrior (example: Brutal, Slaughter, and Rampage chests for two-handed drops), defender warrior (example: Bulwark, Devout, and Adamant chests for sword and shield drops), dagger rogue classes (example: Silent, Nimble, and Untouchable chests for dual dagger drops), and archer rogue classes (example: Keen, Precise, and Uncanny chests for bow drops).

 

Essentially, what I am saying is that narrowing down the RNG a bit, but not too much, but with properly adjusted costs so you still have to work for what you want, would make the game feel much more rewarding without cheapening the experience.

 

I actually really like both parts of this idea. You should definitely make a thread going into a little bit more depth, if you have the time. It retains the RNG  but limits it somewhat. There's still the problem that it doesn't naturally lead to progression - as you highlighted. Not sure how that could be remedied, though. 

[FLASH--JOHNSON]

i would trade one of my 3 calibans for a ****** bow

[Chi_Mangetsu]

I was surprised there was no guaranteed rares for large chests with a chance to get Uniques. Any reason this wasn't imported conceptually from ME3MP?

[Storm_Changer]

That's the first time someone has asked me to give more information... usually on the internet it's all TL;DR. :-)

I'll have some free time later to post a bit more detail in a new thread.

 

Sweet, I look forward to it!  

[tinler]

Should let you upgrade weapons ala ME3.  Get the same weapon from a chest?  Combine it with your current one for a +1 to that weapon.

 

The effect would be that low level uniques with interesting properties can be upgraded to the point that they won't always be passed up for higher level weapons just because of the damage stat.  To prevent high ilvl items from getting too powerful, there could be limits on how much you can upgrade based on base ilvl.  The higher the base ilvl, the less you can upgrade it (or alternatively, the harder it is to upgrade -- need more materials/gold to upgrade).

 

(This whole idea is just so that I can walk around Perilous with an Acolyte Staff +100 )

[Storm_Changer]

Should let you upgrade weapons ala ME3.  Get the same weapon from a chest?  Combine it with your current one for a +1 to that weapon.

 

The effect would be that low level uniques with interesting properties can be upgraded to the point that they won't always be passed up for higher level weapons just because of the damage stat.  To prevent high ilvl items from getting too powerful, there could be limits on how much you can upgrade based on base ilvl.  The higher the base ilvl, the less you can upgrade it (or alternatively, the harder it is to upgrade -- need more materials/gold to upgrade).

 

(This whole idea is just so that I can walk around Perilous with an Acolyte Staff +100 )

 

This has been suggested before, it seems pretty popular.