483 réponses à ce sujet

[OriginalTibs]

Has anyone tried NOT taking her as a companion (I haven't)? I wonder what a pain in the neck she might become when rejected...

[Ashagar]

Vivienne is not somebody I'd want on the sunburst throne anymore than I'd want a hardened Leliana on the sunburst throne even if I do like both characters. Vivienne is a archconservative who's the only thing that changes is that there are now mages in the chantry which worked out oh so well in Tevintor.

 

A Hardened Lleliana on the other hand is pretty much princess stabby stab of the stab princess and you just put her on the sunburst throne leading to a reign of terror against one who dissents against her.

 

Neither strikes me as a good idea in the long run.

[Markk0082]

What

[robertthebard]

So much this.  Though I would rather have Vivienne than hardened Leliana.  My order of preference for divine is:
 
Cassandra
Softened Leliana
Vivienne
Meredith/the Archdemon/anybody
Hardened Leliana 
 
Any of those top three can restore lasting stability though.

So long as we ignore the whole "Hey, there's a mage on the Throne" thing, sure. The issue here is that Noble children who displayed magical talent have been sent to the Chantry since the formation of the Circles, because mages aren't supposed to have that kind of power over the populace. Taking bets that, if enough Nobles rose up against her, she'd declare an Exalted March to pull Southern Thedas back in line before she'd abdicate the throne in the interest of peace. Any takers?

[Bayonet Hipshot]

People dislike Vivienne in the same way they hate a power hungry politician who enforces tyrannical rule because of their own fears and insecurities. 

 

That is, in essence, what Vivienne is. She is a power hungry politician. She is driven to and forms her views based on her fears and insecurities. She then ends up a tyrannical empress of sorts when she gets enough political power. 

 

To dislike Vivienne is to be normal and sensible. 

 

Having said this, she is someone you have to work with because of the position she occupies. She is not like Sera who is part of a band of misfits pointlessly creating chaos for its own sake. Vivienne is someone who is high up the social hierarchy. She is not likeable but her position means a pragmatic person will work with her but will be smart enough to never give her power. 

 

A pragmatic and sensible Inquisitor will never make her Divine and never fully agree with Vivienne's views yet they will be formally nice to her. 

[Machina Obscura]

I love Viv. I dont want her in power though. I find many of her opinions useful and sensible, if not always what i'd put into place, and I value her advice. She kind of reminds me of Maggy Thatcher though.

[convergecultist3]

I will preface my strong dislike for Viv (deal with it) by saying that Indira Varma does an awesome job with the character. That being said, she possesses qualities that I detest the most in people; self-centeredness, self righteousness, all-knowing, condescending, snobbiness, and making other people adhere to rules that you yourself are exempt from. It is bad enough that people live by these qualities alone, but she uses these elitist qualities to mask her own fear and shortcomings, (listen to the banter between her and Cole.) She will only be "nice" to people that help advance her goals. Even her emotional scene with the Duke I don't fully trust that she loves him, i think he is a mark because

1. In answering one of Viv's questions, you tell her that "Mages should be part of the Chantry," this receives great approval from Viv,

2. Trying to start a romance w/Viv, she says, and i paraphase, "How would that benefit me. This wouldn't because it would straight up murder her relationship with the Duke's sister.

3. The Duke's sister is a high ranking something or other in the Chantry as stated by Josephine. Viv spends the whole game buttering up Cassandra (Viv is no dummy, I will give her that,) because I think she knows that either Cassandra or Leliana will become the next Divine.

 

It is no secret that Viv doesn't agree with L so she hitches her wagon to Cassandra. Not only does she have a ear of the Duke's sister, but also the player by promoting Cassandra to you as well, unless of course the inquisitor suggests that Viv should become the next Divine, which I'm most sure she lets the sister know this as well.  In either scenario, she is locking up a place of power that is greater than First Enchanter of Orlais. In short, Viv is an over-ambitious politician, and if you can't trust her, why would you like her?

[ImperialAuthority]

I have seen Vivienne get a substantial amount of hate. I just want to know why you hate her. Personally, I love her. She's crazy. I like crazy. 

 

I dont like her because she is insufficient for showing her glorious boobs. I can see only half, stupid clothes blocking my sight.

[Cantina]

Vivienne is nothing but a viper. But I suppose you could same the same for most people in Orlais.

 

Reasons I do not like her:

 

Disrespectful

 

The other companions may make comments on my choices and then back-off, however Vivienne keeps sticking her nose in where it does not belong. I do not need a lecture about how Haven was a miscalculation nor do I need to hear second-hand that Vivienne is trying to change the decor around Skyhold behind my back. And Vivenne needs to stop "crying" to Cullen every time an idea pops in her head. Cullen is no longer a Templar, she needs to back-off.

 

I do not want to hear Vivienne go on about how I should make the Inquisition in an organization for people to be afraid of nor am I going to turn into something as she calls it “Faithful.’ Vivienne needs to back the hell off and mind her own business. My character worked ten times harder getting to the position of the Inquisitor and making what the Inquisition is. Where was Vivienne at this time? In Orlais, throwing parties and trying to prove she has something to prove.

 

 

Lack of Knowledge

 

For all her speeches she clearly has no sense of what a mage outside the Circle is capable of. She believes the moment a Mage, steps outside the Circle they will turn into some abomination or some crazy non-mage will string them up. I for one walked through Redcliff and saw dozens of mages with no abominations running around. Yes, Mages ARE dangerous but a lot more mages understand and know how to handle themselves to the point of not becoming the danger everyone fears. Most mages just a want a normal life and do not care about how having power. Vivienne gives mages such a shallow opinion that it shows me her life was so damn shelter she has no sense of what a mage truly can be outside the Circle.

 

Vivienne immediately calls Cole a “Demon” yet Solas states that the truth is far more complex. Vivienne sees only the bad and does not have any consideration that there ARE good spirits in the Fade. When I had my Inquisitor say, that Cole helped save lives at Haven, Vivienne immediately spews out some bile about how Cole will eventually turn on people. I think Vivienne needs to get to know Cole and understand the difference between Spirits and Demons.

 

 

Hypocrite

 

After walking through The Fade, Vivienne immediately tells me later at Skyhold that she is envious. Now some will ask how is she being a hypocrite. Because Vivienne talks endless about how dangerous mages can be, yet walking through The Fade is the most dangerous thing any Mage can do. A Mage within the Fade can easily be tempted and twisted. Being envious about walking physically through The Fade is something one should not speak of when your views on Mages is so low.

 

When Vivienne was moving furniture around in Skyhold I told her, that I was not happy with her moving furniture around in my fortress. She replies back that it is not my fortress but the Inquisition.  I recall that Vivienne was staying within her lover’s home, yet she called it HER home. Sorry but Skyhold is in fact the Inquisitor’s fortress more so then Vivienne’s poor claim on her so-called house.

 

“Magic should serve man, not rule over him.” Vivienne believes in this which is why she is strongly for The Circles. However you can have her as a Divine. Um, right.

 

 

Road to a Magister

 

Vivienne is so chalked full of ambition, selfish desires and ignorance I for one see her as no better than a magister in Tevintier. Seeing her use an ice spell on a disrespectful noble is the beacon in the dark for her being on this road.

 

Constantly maneuvering yourself to gain more then what she has had before is not just The Game but also what mages do in Tevinter. I for one believe that a mage playing in The Game is far more dangerous than a mage running around freely in Thedas. Send Vivienne off to Tevinter and within a few years she’ll be a magister and then trying to climb to being an Archon.

 

 

 

I know there Are people here who enjoy her character. I for one do not. Oh, I applauded the writers for doing such a good job in creating a character I loath above any other companion I have come across.

 

My tolerance for people like Vivienne in real life is non-existent. Power hungry people are always dangerous and makes it more so with her being a mage. Vivienne joining the Inquisition to help was far down her list, at the top the true reason for her joining was to brag about how she is IN the Inquisition and to try and use it to gain whatever else she is seeking.

 

Making friends with Vivienne will never happen in any of my play throughs. I simply cannot stoop to her level and become a person I will eventually regret becoming, especially in real life. I could of course be vile and not give her the heart of the right Wyvern but my character (I) am better than that…better then Vivienne. I’m not saying I have all the answers, in game or out of game, I am saying that Vipers cannot be trust nor respected. In the end they care only for themselves and only those around them when they have something to gain. Vivienne relationship (to me) with that noble man was more for power and position then it was for love.

[BloodyTalon]

She reminds people to much of everyone who is in congress, has been in congress or president in the U.S lately people hate power hungry types or if they promote special interests groups and the circle is a big special interests. 

Just my thoughts on it, its her polotical nature.

[mackan__s]

Becuause she hates you, and calls you darling like she is your mother. A freakin bullie that run you over with an bulldozer.

[t0mm06]

She doesn't claim that all mages should be confined to the circles, she just believes that there should be circles and points out that not all mages were confined to the circles in the old system. You seem to be projecting this "she wants mages imprisoned and beaten" idea onto her probably because you dislike that she holds such an opinion and you need to justify your dislike of her by making her seem more extreme.

If you actually give her the heart it can lead to her gaining a lot more influence in the Orlesian court and the Chantry. This could easily be good for the Inquisition if the Inquisitor shared most of her beliefs and got along well with her. Having friends in high places can't hurt after all.

Firstly I didn't say she wanted them beaten at all, what I said was that the impression I get from her is that she would not care if they were as long as it didn't interfear with he life/privileges.
Also I don't think she is extrem at all.i just think she's selfish.
None of these are things I've projected onto her, they are just how she appears to me.
Also I actually agree with some of her views, there should be circle (not chantry driven) and not run at all like they were, and she is right about most of the faults of the rebel mages.
Perhaps one of the main reasons I dislike her is that she is pompous and thinks herself better for being so good at 'the game'.
Or maybe it's just that I don't trust or like anyone who tells people off for calling them by their name rather then a sentence long title (I've been around 3 companions who Vivienne has chastised for calling her viv rather then 'madam de Frey court Mage blah blah blah'

[NaclynE]

i don't hate Vivian. In my first playthrough when I went Templars she was for it and was supportive. Sure she was against Cole and hated me being intimate with Sera but I was fine with how she handled my politics (even though back alley/secretive style) but doing anything and everything to get people to be won over by the Inquisition the better. Heck, she called me a dear friend and appreciated me being there for support and other stuff.

 

However....About her being the new divine....I....never knew. I just praised her for her new position and asked her to stay regardless of her being "busy".

[Hazegurl]

Well, let's be fair about Cole. The last good spirit we messed around with in DA:A was Justice and look what eventually happened there *cough* Anders *cough* To say Cole could never cause harm to others is just a naivety. He requires lots of maintenance to maintain his "spiritual alignment" which includes reading the thoughts of others and invading their minds. Also, his former idea of helping mages were to simply kill them. I can't blame Vivienne for wanting to put the brakes on allowing him in Skyhold around herself and other mages. 

[Morroian]

People dislike Vivienne in the same way they hate a power hungry politician who enforces tyrannical rule because of their own fears and insecurities. 

 

That is, in essence, what Vivienne is. She is a power hungry politician. She is driven to and forms her views based on her fears and insecurities. She then ends up a tyrannical empress of sorts when she gets enough political power. 

 

To dislike Vivienne is to be normal and sensible. 

 

This is in essence what she is, she's a conservative bigot. I don't think she's a bad character but it is kind of annoying that we can't really challenge her views.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

This is in essence what she is, she's a conservative bigot. I don't think she's a bad character but it is kind of annoying that we can't really challenge her views.

 

I suspect this is because Bioware wanted to preserve her "strong, independent, empowered and badass woman" visage that she has going on. Here's a tip to Bioware writers who cannot seem to make an actual strong, independent, empowered and badass woman :- Let the player be able to challenge their views and let the female character be able to respond in a rational manner. Vivienne does not do this. 

 

Its the same reason why you can debate and have lots of dialogue on viewpoints with someone like Solas, Dorian and even Cole....But Vivienne...Its kowtowing all the way....

[dailyminerals]

I was really looking forward to Viviene initially, and assumed she'd be my favorite character, but when I actually met her, she ended up possessing pretty much every personality trait I despise: arrogance, conceit, materialism, and elitism. She reminded me of a shallower version of Morrigan from DAO, who I also wasn't a fan of. Still, I think it's important for characters like this to be created to give variety and perspective. Also, someone who doesn't simply kowtow to the players whims is refreshing.

 

I love pretty much everyone else in the party though, except her. Maybe I missed some dialogue with her, but she only seemed to have one mode: ******.

[Shahadem]

Vivienne is not somebody I'd want on the sunburst throne anymore than I'd want a hardened Leliana on the sunburst throne even if I do like both characters. Vivienne is a archconservative who's the only thing that changes is that there are now mages in the chantry which worked out oh so well in Tevintor.

 

A Hardened Lleliana on the other hand is pretty much princess stabby stab of the stab princess and you just put her on the sunburst throne leading to a reign of terror against one who dissents against her.

 

Neither strikes me as a good idea in the long run.

 

Except this isn't Tevinter. Tevinter has been morally bankrupt for thousands of years. They are essentially Rome.

 

Ferelden/Orlais are like post civil war America. The mages were just freed which really pissed off the South who will now stick in their heels for the next century with tons of segregation legislation until hopefully come around to the reality that all men are created equal even if some people are better or worse at different things or look a little different.

[Shahadem]

Her ending epilogue says: "To the surprise of many, she reinstates the Circle of Magi and creates a Templar Order firmly leashed to her hand. Mages rise quickly in the new Circle, having more freedom and responsibility then ever before - even if all true power lies with her. For now, the Chantry remains united. Though difficult for many to accept, a mage sits on the Sunburst Throne and will remain there."

 

I'm getting from this that 1) the templars are now "firmly leashed" to the hands of a mage and 2) mages now have more freedom and responsibility than ever before and 3) she has gained the power of a queen.

 

Is she ruthless and monarchical? Yes

Does she enact reforms that benefit mages? Yes

 

This is sounding rather a lot like Bhelen to me.  He didn't eradicate the Casteless.  He just gave them work.  

 

*Edit* Ninjaed (sort of, I was away from the computer for a while).

 

How exactly do mages have more freedom now than they did before? The Circle system was what robbed mages of their freedom in the first place. Taking mages out of their homes and forcing them into places that they cannot leave any time they wish, where they cannot have a family, cannot necessarily choose whom they love (or even if they get to love), where they are forced to worship some being called the Creator, isn't giving mages their freedom. It is taking away the Freedom they finally achieved after rebelling.

 

Yes, the mages had problems getting supplies when they join you after Red Cliff. But they had nothing. So how were they going to supply themselves when they had nothing to supply themselves with? It will take time for the mages to be able to reintegrate themselves into society, having lived so long in the Circles where they didn't have to learn how to live a normal life and provide for themselves. But that's something they can learn with time. And the point of freeing mages isn't necessarily doing it for the current generation, but for future generations.

[Eveangaline]

 Considering how she reacted in the blackwall quest, if she becomes divine I imagine she'll do away with public hangings, I support that. She's also very pro- avenging horrible wrongs whenever I take her anywhere. She seems genuinely hurt and mad when tragedy happens, even if she tries not to be. I like Viv, even if I don't agree with most of her politics (stiiiilll gonna try and make her the divine in at least one run. Damn I love you viv.)

[Shahadem]

Bald women... don't really get much love. Just sayin, they had to give Jack hair before people started to like her.

 

I thought bald Jack was beautiful. But she also had tattoos for hair for so she wasn't completely bald.

 

Not sure what I'd think of her without the tattoos on her head.