Um...this surprised you?
Really?
Yes, but not in a way you think.
I was not surprised by knowing this was her intention, I was however surprised Vivienne openly admitted to doing it.
I simply was not expecting Vivienne's true motivations to be revealed.
Guest_EntropicAngel_*
Because she is a pretentious airswhole.
Joking, but only a little. Offhand I can't think of a single person she doesn't treat with contempt, and her actions when you first meet her are childish.
Yes, but not in a way you think.
I was not surprised by knowing this was her intention, I was however surprised Vivienne openly admitted to doing it.
I simply was not expecting Vivienne's true motivations to be revealed.
Oh.
Okay I get that. XD
I wound up not thinking all that much of Vivienne because she has 20/20 hindsight, feels she should be the exception to the rules she herself thinks should be imposed upon mages, and because her response to the abuses being perpetrated by Templars was perhaps the most idiotic line of dialogue in the game. I'm not even speaking idealogically; just from a logical standpoint, it was fifty shades of stupid. So I never had that high opinion of her to start with and rode out the game feeling she was a lot of style over substance.
...because she is a self serving ******? I also find that present she gives you at the around the end of the game to be somewhat dubious. An enchanted ring...? Enchanted to do what? Mind control perhaps or maybe has a crystal in it like one used between Calpernia and Cory so she can eavesdrop on discussions between advisers at the war table maybe in an effort to boost her own position and influence. If was me I would toss the ring in the deepest well as soon as could. I sure as hell do not believe it is an Orlaisian custom to give friends 'enchanted' rings or trinkets.
There is a chance she gave you it to help you instead of helping herself but that is very unlikely since most of the game she only looks out for herself and her interests, she is power hungry and uses other people to get what she wants in a big way, she is extremely condescending and extremely arrogant. She is the Paris Hilton of the DA world only much worse. I think the question should be why do people like her more so than why do people dislike her, why people dislike her is obvious, why people like her is less so.
She's an arrogant self-serving manipulative ******.
Mind you that's exactly WHY I like her, but are you surprised one ****** bit?
She's an arrogant self-serving manipulative ******.
Mind you that's exactly WHY I like her, but are you surprised one ****** bit?
Hell I like her and same.
I just don't get the heartless and only cares about herself bit. She does care about a few other people. Most humans do. (The way she sounded when she found out what happened to the tranquil 
"I thought they'd be safe with the rebel mages. I see I was wrong." )
I don't like using DnD terms bu.... bah who am i kidding i love using DnD terms and aligments to define characters! Well anyway she's neutral evil, she is what everything went wrong in Tevinter with chantry, mages and templars. Some may not see her as evil because most of the Bioware villains are like "dur dur, i lost my sense reason and must initiate the boss fight, bum bum bum".
However Vivienne is as evil as its gets without becoming a psychopath.
They have a lot more power than you give them credit for, and I think you're basing it on them being toothless in this game. In the previous installments, they are anything but toothless. They have all the mages, and all the Templars, when they aren't splintered like they were here. The mage/Templar war devastated their power, but they still had enough political pull that we had to deal with them anyway. There are also later War Table missions that we get that deal with the Chantry starting to, once again, speak out against us. If they didn't have that political clout, we could completely ignore them.
I never meant to imply that they had no political power. I simply pointed out that their role is not to rule. Vivienne wasn't toothless in Orlais either, even Fiona is not toothless. It's like in Origins, the warden didn't rule anything but (s)he made choices that affected an entire country, why? Because (s)he was simply in a position to do so. The fact that the Warden decided who was on the throne does not mean the Warden rules Ferelden.
Why do a lot of people hate Vivienne?
Because she takes the opposite view from people expect from a mage.
A pro mage freedom zealot would be beloved while a pro circle mage is hated.
I never meant to imply that they had no political power. I simply pointed out that their role is not to rule. Vivienne wasn't toothless in Orlais either, even Fiona is not toothless. It's like in Origins, the warden didn't rule anything but (s)he made choices that affected an entire country, why? Because (s)he was simply in a position to do so. The fact that the Warden decided who was on the throne does not mean the Warden rules Ferelden.
Actually, I like to dislike Vivienne ! Yes, she's an irritating snob, but that's the reason why she's a good character : Because a least you feel something about her. Bad characters are the hollow ones, who only generate indifference.
I’ve been messing around with the game, doing repeats to see which story direction is best for me. Last night the direction I chose, ended up getting me so damn pissed about Vivienne. I nearly threw my controller across the room.
Towards the end of the game, I spoke with Vivienne. It was during this conversation, Vivienne admits to my character she only joined the Inquisition to use my character and The Inquisition to elevate her status in Orlais. Oh my character was pissed. All Vivienne did was smile all proud of herself and say, “It’s the game.”
Even when I first started playing this game, I had a suspicion Vivienne cared only for herself and not the goal of The Inquisition. But to now have this confirmed after several play throughs really wishes there was an option to slap the **** out of her and kick her out of The Inquisition.
Considering the confirmation of this, I am now left to figure out IF I should even bother allowing her to join.
Good job developers for creating a character that has become the most hated character I have come across in any DA game.
Well, in an sense Bioware did an good job with her. She is the only character in the series I legit did not wanted to recruit. I didn't care if I would lose content or whatever. That never happened before, I recruit Loghain, I recruited Velanna, hell, I allowed Anders to live. But this is the first time an Bioware character honestly made me go "get the hell away from me, you're joining my crew over my dead body". That was impressive on it's own way.
I love Vivienne haha. I had her in my party all the way through, I thought it refreshing to have someone with such different views about mages whilst at the same time I was romancing Cullen and having him start to change how he saw everything.
Plus her conversations with Cassandra and Iron Bull are humerous.
Because she takes the opposite view from people expect from a mage.
A pro mage freedom zealot would be beloved while a pro circle mage is hated.
Not its because she's a conceited, elitist, bitchy snob. Not saying she's a bad character just that I don't like her for those reasons.
Heh I did that this run. The way she says "enjoy the salon." she was so mad. XD
I just found out on my latest run that if you don't recruit her before Wicked Eyes and Wicked Hearts you can't get her. Woo hoo, Vivienne-free game!!!!!!! Probably the only time I will do that, but I was still happy.
Well, in an sense Bioware did an good job with her. She is the only character in the series I legit did not wanted to recruit. I didn't care if I would lose content or whatever. That never happened before, I recruit Loghain, I recruited Velanna, hell, I allowed Anders to live. But this is the first time an Bioware character honestly made me go "get the hell away from me, you're joining my crew over my dead body". That was impressive on it's own way.
Probably will be for the better in the future not recruiting her because she wont gain as much power or influence in theory if cannot manipulate or use inquisition from within to boost her own success and power.
Sometimes I LOVE Viv. Other times I want to slap her.
I feel the same way about Sera sometimes.
This only tends to prove to me how great they are as characters. I'd rather have have them be interesting enough to justify having opinions on them than be stuck with boring companions.
Because she takes the opposite view from people expect from a mage.
A pro mage freedom zealot would be beloved while a pro circle mage is hated.
It's not because she's a pro-circle mage, it's because she's selfish, hypocritical and power-hungry.
Wynne wasn't hated, and she was probably more pro-circle than Vivienne. Wynne actually lived in the Circle, too.
Vivienne like sera does at least bring something with her, the loyalist mages while sera brings her 'friends'.
I confess I don't understand some of the reactions here. Vivienne does join so that she can increase her influence (at least in large part).
First, how does that surprise anyone, she's marketed as The Ambition and is clearly a person who thinks ahead and looks out for number 1.
Second, so what? What does her reasoning for joining have to do with anything? She's still out there fighting Corypheus like anyone else in the party, that's all one should care about I figure. She has as much influence as you give her, in the end.
Third, it's not like she's all talk. Her ending as Divine clearly states that, while she concentrates power in her hands, the Circles are more free than they used to be. She does work for the betterment of mages; the divide seems to be what one considers betterment, but it doesn't make her someone who only cares about herself.
And finally, next to the blindingly stupid Fiona and her crew, she kinda comes across as a viable alternative to me, even with her numerous flaws.
Not its because she's a conceited, elitist, bitchy snob. Not saying she's a bad character just that I don't like her for those reasons.
It's not because she's a pro-circle mage, it's because she's selfish, hypocritical and power-hungry.
Wynne wasn't hated, and she was probably more pro-circle than Vivienne. Wynne actually lived in the Circle, too.
At the root of the hatred is her hard line views about the circle, hell she was hated before we had even met her due to one line of dialogue in one of the streams (skyhold one I think) which sent the forum into a fury, with numerous hate Vivienne topics and posts.
Do some people just dislike her personality, of course.......looking at the forum there are people who just hate the different companion's personalities but that doesn't change the hatred Vivienne gets for not towing the pro freedom for mages party line.
At the root of the hatred is her hard line views about the circle, hell she was hated before we had even met her due to one line of dialogue in one of the streams (skyhold one I think) which sent the forum into a fury, with numerous hate Vivienne topics and posts.
Do some people just dislike her personality, of course.......looking at the forum there are people who just hate the different companion's personalities but that doesn't change the hatred Vivienne gets for not towing the pro freedom for mages party line.
I confess I don't understand some of the reactions here. Vivienne does join so that she can increase her influence (at least in large part).
First, how does that surprise anyone, she's marketed as The Ambition and is clearly a person who thinks ahead and looks out for number 1.
Second, so what? What does her reasoning for joining have to do with anything? She's still out there fighting Corypheus like anyone else in the party, that's all one should care about I figure. She has as much influence as you give her, in the end.
Third, it's not like she's all talk. Her ending as Divine clearly states that, while she concentrates power in her hands, the Circles are more free than they used to be. She does work for the betterment of mages; the divide seems to be what one considers betterment, but it doesn't make her someone who only cares about herself.
And finally, next to the blindingly stupid Fiona and her crew, she kinda comes across as a viable alternative to me, even with her numerous flaws.
In response from my view point..
1. Surprising is a bit of a stretch considering if you read between the lines of how Vivienne acts and speaks when you first encounter her. There is nothing wrong with having ambition, hell everyone within the Inquisition can be held accountable on that front. Vivienne however takes her ambitious nature and increases it twofold. Here is someone who not only plays but enjoys The Game. Anyone who enjoys such devious actions is one not to be trusted. Perhaps it is just who I am as a person, I tend to think of others before myself and Vivienne violates my compassionate nature thus making me despise her.
2. Overly ambitious people will do something not because they want too but because they have too. Understand, Vivienne joins the Inquisition not because she wants to stop Cory but because she wants to use The Inquisitor and The Inquisition to further her own career.I am sure some where down the list of her priorities stopping Cory is there, but it is not the main goal. A villain can stop to fed a puppy but one act of compassion does not mean I should over look all they wrong he/she has done.
3. This goes well beyond her view point of mages. By all means Vivienne can have her own views on mages. I may not agree with them but not everyone can agree on everything. A person like Vivienne becoming Divine is a scarey thought. Give an overly ambitious person power and everything MAY seem fine at first, but sooner or later they will want more power. I have a feeling that down the road making Vivienne Divine will end up causing chaos upon chaos. Considering how Vivienne is, making her Divine is no better then just handing the Sunburst Throne over to a Tevinter. Vivienne reminds me of someone from real life history, but I shall not name that person here or ever.
Finally...
As for Fiona, yes she did make mistakes, I for one am pro mage yet I do not agree with Fiona's actions. I do however have more respect for Fiona then for Vivienne. Fiona did all she could to safeguard her fellow mages, she cares so much that causes Fiona to make bad choices. I admire Fiona's compassion and her selfless nature.
Vivienne on the other hand cares only for herself and will care about others only if there is something she needs from them. Oh sure, Vivienne puts on a grand show with The Duke, but anyone as manipulative as Vivienne can do the same. I do not believe for a second that Vivienne truly loved this man, his money and status, but not the man. But I digress, Vivienne is a selfish person not the sort of person I could ever idolize much less give two bits about.
In my eyes Vivienne is the villain within The Inquisition walls, a snake in the grass. I no problems with ambitious people in or out of the game, but when someone like Vivienne takes it as far as some politicians do, that is cause for concerned. I'd be far more comfortable with an assassin hiding in the shadows then be in the presence of someone like Vivienne.
Out of all the companions Vivienne is an odd fit. She belongs in Orlais throwing parties and proving whatever it is she needs to prove.
Compared to the other companions the only thing she brings to the Inquisition is giving me a headache. Thus I believe from this point on, I will no longer recruit her. Sure this may seem strange to some but I've already played a game without Vivienne being recruited and to be honest, it was nice not having a Viper in the grass.
Retour en haut