483 réponses à ce sujet

[Matth85]

Truer words were never spoken. When a character has their own opinions/beliefs/etc and stands by them and doesn't lick the protag's boots, is pretty much hated.

It got nothing to do with a character being petty if you do not agree with her?

I, for one, wanted to punch her in the throat. Vivienne gets the last word, redecorate my room and tends to ****** me off in conversations. I can't get her to leave or kill her. Of course I am going to hate her! She's a living hypocrite about mages. If i could, I would tranquil her or throw her in a circle, alone. I can't. Not cool!

 

A good character -- but also one to be hated. 

[Baerdface]

"Lyrium. The other red meat." isn't exactly better. Welcome to Dragon Age, where mages and templars compete to see who can be the dumbest, most dangerous bunch of psychopaths in Thedas in a truly sad attempt to make the "mages or templars?" question that every single game asks a "gray area."
 

 

Yeah, but I'd rather go with people who follow orders (albeit are too naive and idealistic). The "grey area" aspect is truly bad in the whole mages vs templars conflict though, I agree. I mean you get the obvious hamfisted attempts at rustling your sympathies with stuff like "templars killed my husband just to be safe" and "rebel mages left me to die because I'm too weak". Come on, could do better than that. And I would have liked more political and idealistic stuff rather than the generic "I'm posessed by demons" excuse. 

 

There should've been more interaction with more level-headed people from both sides. The game makes you pick a side from your experiences with extremist zealots from both sides.

[ZoliCs]

 She never claims that her position or level of comfort is any kind of standard of living among mages. Obviously to a less fortunate mage that lived in a Circle like, say, Kirkwall's, the outlook would be extremely different, but this is true for just about anything. The prospect of total freedom, regardless of the consequences, would be preferable to that sh**hole from that point of view. She flatly states that to some Circle life is abysmal, others merely tolerable, and some preferable to the lives they would have otherwise been leading. But mostly she goes on about the necessity of the system, not that they're actually great in and of themselves. It ties into her fear of magic and fear of possession, but I don't believe that she's wrong on the idea that mages need a sanctuary where they can learn the disciplines of magic among other mages. While I don't really side on the loyalist end of things, I do think that there's some merit to what she has to say.

Yes, and she doesn't care about those who have it worse as long as she is fine...

[KaiserShep]

I really don't think that it's quite as simple as this.

[TheLittleBird]

I have a feeling that if Vivienne were in favour of mage freedom and the rebellion, but otherwise the exact same character, she'd be loved a lot more. 

 

As for Vivienne always getting the last word... isn't that just who she is? She'll always try to have the last word in a conversation, no matter what's it about. If one, using wit in his/her sentences, gets the last word in a conversation, they'll more often than not be seen as the 'winner', whatever that means in context. Which is exactly what a player of the Game would want.

 

If you read The Masked Empire, you'll find that the better players always get the last word as well. *cough* Celene *cough*

[Rifneno]

Yeah, but I'd rather go with people who follow orders (albeit are too naive and idealistic). The "grey area" aspect is truly bad in the whole mages vs templars conflict though, I agree. I mean you get the obvious hamfisted attempts at rustling your sympathies with stuff like "templars killed my husband just to be safe" and "rebel mages left me to die because I'm too weak". Come on, could do better than that. And I would have liked more political and idealistic stuff rather than the generic "I'm posessed by demons" excuse. 
 
There should've been more interaction with more level-headed people from both sides. The game makes you pick a side from your experiences with extremist zealots from both sides.

Definitely. The amount of crazy extremists on both sides is ridiculous. At least in Kirkwall we had the excuse that Kirkwall is known to make people crazy. In this game, it's just ham-fisted and poor writing. I think the worst bit was by a hunter who saw some templars harassing and robbing refugees. Then some mages came and set all of them on fire because moral gray area means evil vs. evil. Then the hunter shot and killed the last templar as the templar was getting undressed to rape some woman as she was dying from the burns. Really?

I enjoyed the overall game, but the mages/templars bit was, as should probably be expected from DA2, absolutely absurd.

[mikeymoonshine]

Not bad ideas. My idea was to make her fight the next Archdemon, because evidently we don't need Grey Wardens...

 

She's a KE soloing an Archdemon wont be a problem for her. 

 

 

Above all, because it's easy to say that circles and templars are a great idea when you live in a palace and are probably the most privileged mage in Orlais.

 

It's also easy to make this tired old argument.   Vivienne is not the only mage to support the circle system, dismissing her opinions on the basis of privilege does nothing because she is not the only mage to hold those opinions. 

[Baerdface]

Definitely. The amount of crazy extremists on both sides is ridiculous. At least in Kirkwall we had the excuse that Kirkwall is known to make people crazy. In this game, it's just ham-fisted and poor writing. I think the worst bit was by a hunter who saw some templars harassing and robbing refugees. Then some mages came and set all of them on fire because moral gray area means evil vs. evil. Then the hunter shot and killed the last templar as the templar was getting undressed to rape some woman as she was dying from the burns. Really?

I enjoyed the overall game, but the mages/templars bit was, as should probably be expected from DA2, absolutely absurd.

 

Yeah, it is not presented with enough subtlety for me to be able to take it seriously, the whole conflict is just an overblown caricature of itself at this point.

Althought I don't understand why overwhelming majority of people go with rebel mages as if the issue is one sided like that.

[WildOrchid]

I have a feeling that if Vivienne were in favour of mage freedom and the rebellion, but otherwise the exact same character, she'd be loved a lot more.

 

I think she'd be equally hated because the forum has templar supporters as well.

[Baerdface]

I think she'd be equally hated because the forum has templar supporters as well.

 

You make it sound like that's a bad thing.

[mikeymoonshine]

Definitely. The amount of crazy extremists on both sides is ridiculous. At least in Kirkwall we had the excuse that Kirkwall is known to make people crazy. In this game, it's just ham-fisted and poor writing. I think the worst bit was by a hunter who saw some templars harassing and robbing refugees. Then some mages came and set all of them on fire because moral gray area means evil vs. evil. Then the hunter shot and killed the last templar as the templar was getting undressed to rape some woman as she was dying from the burns. Really?

I enjoyed the overall game, but the mages/templars bit was, as should probably be expected from DA2, absolutely absurd.

 

I didn't like that Fiona attacks the Inquisition with Coryfish if you side with the Templars, it just seemed completely out of character to me. I can just about get my head round her allying with Tervinter considering the tight spot she was in and the fact that they tricked her into thinking the other mages supported the idea but not working for Cory and attacking the Inquisition. 

[mikeymoonshine]

It makes sense if you do the first part of the redcliffe before doing Champions of the Just. She says mages are Indentured to Tevinter well not Tevinter but the Venitori. Would make sense that now being part of the Venitori Army she'd be apart of the attack, regardless of her approval or not, it's a do what I say or die kind of situation.

 

But they say other mages ran off or were killed when the Venatori killed Alexius and took over and she already seemed to be regretting her decision because Alexius was dishonest about the nature of the service her people would be subjected to. I just don't think she would have gone along with that. 

[umadcommander]

she is a purely political creature, thats pretty much her entire character

how many politicians do you know that you can honestly say are decent people, of course she's a piece of sh*t

[Sully13]

Because they cant handle her.

[Baerdface]

VeeVee does not give a **** about being liked by peasant scum.

 

Elitism and education is important when making decisions on important issues, it is naive to think that "you just gotta be a good person inside and use common sense" is all you need. Elitism weeds out the idiots who don't know what they're talking about.

[Archie591]

She acts like a teacher/mother with an extreme superiority complex. The kinda of person that most gamers try to escape from when they play a video game. 

 

She actually made Bull meek. That kinda pissed me off, lol.

 

She made Bull call her Ma'am, say sorry and do as she said. And Bull was like... "Yes Ma'am, I'm sorry Ma'am".

[WildOrchid]

She actually made Bull meek. That kinda pissed me off, lol.

 

She made Bull call her Ma'am, say sorry and do as she said. And Bull was like... "Yes Ma'am, I'm sorry Ma'am".

 

Because she reminds him of a qunari tamassran.

[Locklyn]

AM I alone in thinking she is way hotter than any of the other viable females in DAI?

[Miggs]

Please stop making these threads. 

 

Shame this thread didn't stop here.

Have a like wetnasty

[KainD]

She's pro circle, easy as that. 

[Baerdface]

She's pro circle, easy as that. 

 

What if she was pro rectangle?

[Diabolus_Musica]

It got nothing to do with a character being petty if you do not agree with her?

I, for one, wanted to punch her in the throat.

Then I guess Bioware succeeded when they made this character didn't they?

[ZipZap2000]

Because they cant handle her.

 

Give us the option and we'll see about that.

 

"Darling one does not simply.."

 

*Mark of the rift*

 

"Noooooooo" 

 

*Dissolves*

[ZipZap2000]

Then I guess Bioware succeeded when they made this character didn't they

 

This.