185 réponses à ce sujet

[Larry-3]

In the Refusal ending the Reapers continue their harvest of organics. Well... what happens if you have a EMS of... say 10000 or even 12000. The Reapers would be there eager for you to bring whatever you could gather... then you arrive through the Relay with thousands of ships. Vessels just continue to warp in: dreadnoughts, cruisers, frigates... they just keep arriving. There is so many ships that shadows from them appear over the Reapers as they move in to engage. Meanwhile on the Citadel you choose Refuse. The one that let's the fighting continue. Well could you win the war?

[CaIIisto]

No.

In the original game it took a fleet of ships to take down one Reaper.

Even with a massive EMS you're still getting an ass-whooping in a refusal ending.

[Valmar]

No, they spent the entire game hammering home to us that we cannot defeat the reapers in conventional war. The reapers are simply too plentiful and too powerful. Plus they have the citadel now and with it the relay networks. We're all kinds of screwed.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

No. According to Bioware we could have build a million dreadnought armada and still lost.

 

We needed the crucible because you can't kill a reaper conventionally because even dead reapers can indoctrinate. Reaper tech indoctrinates. There would be a mess of dead reapers that need clean up. Soon the clean up teams would be indoctrinated, and would be turning our own ships against us. We were screwed.

 

The message of the story was that technology is evil unless it is controlled by a higher power.

[78stonewobble]

No and yes... Can't win with the fleet we have, but theoretically it would be possible to design ships big enough to ie. one hit kill reapers and then build enough. Offcourse trying to do that, would probably just end in the reapers coming before you could get anyway near prepared enough. So... practically no...

[Orikon]

I still think that beating the Reapers conventionally is possible with a lot of careful strategy,but only if you achieved peace between the Geth and the Quarians. At least at the battle For earth.

 

But OT....my theory is still that,if you destroy the Citadel itself (while its open),you destroy the core which holds the AI (Catalyst),thus disabling each and every Reaper throughout the galaxy.

[Valmar]

 

But OT....my theory is still that,if you destroy the Citadel itself (while its open),you destroy the core which holds the AI (Catalyst),thus disabling each and every Reaper throughout the galaxy.

 

Each reaper is a nation, independent, free of all weakness. We can overlook that since the ending overlooks it already.

 

Either way, destroying the citadel to the extent that the 'core' would be disabled could be catastrophic to the entire galaxy. The Citadel acts like the control hub for all the Mass Relays. If you remove it then its possible you will then be disabling the entire Mass Relay network.

[themikefest]

It did not take a fleet to kill a reaper. The game had it setup for the SR1 to take the kill shot. A pint size frigate killing a reaper, while the other ships couldn't do any damage even after the shields were taken down. What a joke.

 

The reaper on Rannoch was dead after being shot and fell on its side, but no, the thing is able to get back on its legs and face Shepard. What makes the scenario hilarious, is that each time the reaper is hit by the Quarian fleet, it remains on its feet whereas, it fell over the first time it was shot. That scene was only done so we can see Shepard get up close and personal with the reaper. It was done for the cool crap effect. Besides that, it only took about 5 ships from the fleet to destroy it. If you watch closely, its doors weren't even opened to use its laser when it got hit and knocked on its side the first time. 

 

The same can said about the reaper in London. There was no reason for the Thannix missle crap. There was enough ordance to take it down after the Thannix missles hit the thing, so there was no need for those missles. They didn't need to hit the firing chamber of the reaper as seen with the one on Rannoch. It was all about the cool crap effect.

 

They made the reapers look strong by having everyone else look weak and stupid. Look what happened on Tuchanka. Why did the Turian fighters not fire on the reaper from behind to avoid taking any damage? The same thing happened in ME1. Had the ships fired on Sovereign from the back instead being in front of it, the losses would not be as bad. But no, we needed to hear Hackett say, Negative. Take down that monster no matter the cost.  

 

Yes the reapers can be defeated. We just had to use the giant microphone. Bioware figure that Shepards dancing couldn't defeat them, so they wanted her/him to sing them to death, but at the last minute they decided to bring in the Larry, Curly and Moe endings instead. Well destroy is good, so they just needed Larry and Curly for the other 2 endings

 

No matter what ems the player had, the reapers would win if Shepard refuses. 

 

I would like to know the number of reapers. Someone posted that it couold be as high as 20 000 Capitals ships. I find that hard to believe, since the largest amount of them were at Earth. I believe someone counted about 110 surrounding Earth. Of course I have no idea how many are on Earth, but still. I wouldn't be surprised if there are reapers that are still in dark space that weren't needed

[Excella Gionne]

I turned off the game and the Reapers ceased to exist.

[Orikon]

It did not take a fleet to kill a reaper. The game had it setup for the SR1 to take the kill shot. A pint size frigate killing a reaper, while the other ships couldn't do any damage even after the shields were taken down. What a joke.

 

The reaper on Rannoch was dead after being shot and fell on its side, but no, the thing is able to get back on its legs and face Shepard. What makes the scenario hilarious, is that each time the reaper is hit by the Quarian fleet, it remains on its feet whereas, it fell over the first time it was shot. That scene was only done so we can see Shepard get up close and personal with the reaper. It was done for the cool crap effect. Besides that, it only took about 5 ships from the fleet to destroy it. If you watch closely, its doors weren't even opened to use its laser when it got hit and knocked on its side the first time. 

 

The same can said about the reaper in London. There was no reason for the Thannix missle crap. There was enough ordance to take it down after the Thannix missles hit the thing, so there was no need for those missles. They didn't need to hit the firing chamber of the reaper as seen with the one on Rannoch. It was all about the cool crap effect.

 

They made the reapers look strong by having everyone else look weak and stupid. Look what happened on Tuchanka. Why did the Turian fighters not fire on the reaper from behind to avoid taking any damage? The same thing happened in ME1. Had the ships fired on Sovereign from the back instead being in front of it, the losses would not be as bad. But no, we needed to hear Hackett say, Negative. Take down that monster no matter the cost.  

 

Yes the reapers can be defeated. We just had to use the giant microphone. Bioware figure that Shepards dancing couldn't defeat them, so they wanted her/him to sing them to death, but at the last minute they decided to bring in the Larry, Curly and Moe endings instead. Well destroy is good, so they just needed Larry and Curly for the other 2 endings

 

No matter what ems the player had, the reapers would win if Shepard refuses. 

 

I would like to know the number of reapers. Someone posted that it couold be as high as 20 000 Capitals ships. I find that hard to believe, since the largest amount of them were at Earth. I believe someone counted about 110 surrounding Earth. Of course I have no idea how many are on Earth, but still. I wouldn't be surprised if there are reapers that are still in dark space that weren't needed.

Exactly. In fact,they did specifically that during the war for Palaven. A couple of dreadnoughts FTLed from behind the Reapers,and since it takes them quite some power to turn around that lowers the strength of their shields,allowing the dreadnoughts to obliterate them.

 

Regarding the number of Reapers on Earth. Excluding the Destroyers,I'd say a couple of hundred (200-300). Destroyers included,it probably goes to a thousand or so.

[Iakus]

Doesn't matter

No matter how much of a difference you made, it didn't make any difference.

[Alamar2078]

The intent I took from the 3rd game was that BW didn't want to make it possible for you to take on the Reapers in a conventional sense and defeat the Reapers with sheer brute force alone.  I don't believe this is the route they SHOULD have taken but it appears to be what they intend.

 

On the other hand I believe that a combination of unconventional warfare ; proper study of the remains of Sovereign ; the Collector Base ; the Mass Relay network ; "Leviathan" ; the Klendagon gun, etc. should have put you in a position where you could effectively resist or at least get to the point of "Mexican Standoff".  We've seen plenty of recent "pop culture" examples on TV & movies like Babylon 5, SW: the Phantom Menace, and the Avengers where [vastly] superior forces were neutralized.  I'm not saying that's always satisfying but I'd like that better than what we got.

[von uber]

An agreed standoff with the reapers could have been an interesting way to end it.

[Swan Killer]

No. According to Bioware we could have build a million dreadnought armada and still lost.

 

We needed the crucible because you can't kill a reaper conventionally because even dead reapers can indoctrinate. Reaper tech indoctrinates. There would be a mess of dead reapers that need clean up. Soon the clean up teams would be indoctrinated, and would be turning our own ships against us. We were screwed.

 

The message of the story was that technology is evil unless it is controlled by a higher power.

 

But even with the Crucible we have thousands of dead Reapers just falling over (if you choose destroy), they don't vanish or anything, so who says they lost their ability to indoctrinate, even though they're "dead"?

[Larry-3]

That is depressing. I was looking forward to arriving with an insanely large fleet that blocks out the sun. Right before the fleet engages I would have said to the Reapers, I deny you! But oh well.

[Iakus]

The intent I took from the 3rd game was that BW didn't want to make it possible for you to take on the Reapers in a conventional sense and defeat the Reapers with sheer brute force alone.  I don't believe this is the route they SHOULD have taken but it appears to be what they intend.

 

On the other hand I believe that a combination of unconventional warfare ; proper study of the remains of Sovereign ; the Collector Base ; the Mass Relay network ; "Leviathan" ; the Klendagon gun, etc. should have put you in a position where you could effectively resist or at least get to the point of "Mexican Standoff".  We've seen plenty of recent "pop culture" examples on TV & movies like Babylon 5, SW: the Phantom Menace, and the Avengers where [vastly] superior forces were neutralized.  I'm not saying that's always satisfying but I'd like that better than what we got.

You'd be suprised how many people think that's still conventional warfare.

 

Unconventional=Miraculous Superweapon MacGuffin 

[Iakus]

That is depressing. I was looking forward to arriving with an insanely large fleet that blocks out the sun. Right before the fleet engages I would have said to the Reapers, I deny you! But oh well.

Not enough FEELZ

[themikefest]

The other thing with having a conventional victory if it were in the game. It would take a long time. Though Bioware could just show a couple reapers being destroyed and call it a day which for me would be lame. They wanted the story to end in 3 games and not in 4 or 5.

[ImaginaryMatter]

No, they spent the entire game hammering home to us that we cannot defeat the reapers in conventional war. The reapers are simply too plentiful and too powerful. Plus they have the citadel now and with it the relay networks. We're all kinds of screwed.

 

The problem I always found with this (and this isn't a promotion for conventional victory), is that most of the game is spent fighting the Reapers conventionally, mostly by the guy who tells us we can't beat the Reapers conventionally. We're not gathering resources to defend the Crucible or secure supply chains for it to get build. We gather forces with the plan to launch them in a conventional attack to retake Earth. Add in all the space combat scenes and codex entries we see where individual species are not getting absolutely demolished by the Reapers, plus a central game mechanic largely structured around gathering conventional assets, and it looks like the ME3 Reapers are a different beast from how they were in ME1.

 

Despite the game telling us the Reapers can't be beaten in such a way, it does a bad job of showing and more importantly enforcing that belief through the game's mechanics.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

But even with the Crucible we have thousands of dead Reapers just falling over (if you choose destroy), they don't vanish or anything, so who says they lost their ability to indoctrinate, even though they're "dead"?

 

The Crucible deactivates reaper tech. It deactivates synthetic technology, too. The reapers did lose their ability to indoctrinate in the destroy ending. They are dead. They are destroyed.

[Valmar]

The problem I always found with this (and this isn't a promotion for conventional victory), is that most of the game is spent fighting the Reapers conventionally, mostly by the guy who tells us we can't beat the Reapers conventionally. We're not gathering resources to defend the Crucible or secure supply chains for it to get build. We gather forces with the plan to launch them in a conventional attack to retake Earth. Add in all the space combat scenes and codex entries we see where individual species are not getting absolutely demolished by the Reapers, plus a central game mechanic largely structured around gathering conventional assets, and it looks like the ME3 Reapers are a different beast from how they were in ME1.

 

Despite the game telling us the Reapers can't be beaten in such a way, it does a bad job of showing and more importantly enforcing that belief through the game's mechanics.

 

 

According to Hackett that was all just to delay the reapers while Shepard finds the cataylst. He doesn't seem to expect them to actually win, only to put up enough fight to buy us more time.

[FaWa]

The entire point of the series was that the reapers are impossible to beat conventionally. Refuse is 100% what it should be.

[Iakus]

The entire point of the series was that the reapers are impossible to beat conventionally. Refuse is 100% what it should be.

Because there is absolutely no other unconventional way to fight besides space magic 

[JasonShepard]

If you had sufficient military might - yes, of course you could beat the Reapers conventionally. The point, however, is that the combined military might of the entire galaxy is too small. There is not sufficient military might in the Milky Way to beat the Reapers.

 

There's, at absolute minimum, 100 Sovereign Class Reapers (counted from a single screenshot during Priority Earth).

 

1 Sovereign is roughly equal to 4 of our dreadnoughts.

 

And we don't have 400 dreadnoughts. Not even close.

 

 

EMS really shouldn't have been unlimited. It gives the wrong impression - the races of the galaxy do not have unlimited resources to throw at the problem. So unless you've called in reinforcements from Andromeda, or found a secret fleet of ancient dreadnoughts somewhere (or found some kind of secret ancient weapon - wait-a-minute...) then you're not going to beat them in a straight up fight.

 

In short - yes, with a massive fleet you could beat the Reapers conventionally. Now, please tell me where you got that massive fleet from?

[Orikon]

If you had sufficient military might - yes, of course you could beat the Reapers conventionally. The point, however, is that the combined military might of the entire galaxy is too small. There is not sufficient military might in the Milky Way to beat the Reapers.

 

There's, at absolute minimum, 100 Sovereign Class Reapers (counted from a single screenshot during Priority Earth).

 

1 Sovereign is roughly equal to 4 of our dreadnoughts.

 

And we don't have 400 dreadnoughts. Not even close.

 

 

EMS really shouldn't have been unlimited. It gives the wrong impression - the races of the galaxy do not have unlimited resources to throw at the problem. So unless you've called in reinforcements from Andromeda, or found a secret fleet of ancient dreadnoughts somewhere (or found some kind of secret ancient weapon - wait-a-minute...) then you're not going to beat them in a straight up fight.

 

In short - yes, with a massive fleet you could beat the Reapers conventionally. Now, please tell me where you got that massive fleet from?

 

Alright...here are the facts.

 

-10,000 Quarian ships in total (the Quarians have broken the Treaty of Farixen;every Live Ship is equipped with firepower comparable to a standard dreadnought),

-The entire Geth Armada (Geth Dreadnoughts are both powerful and larger than any other dreadnought)

- Alliance fleets

- Asari Fleets (including the upgraded and improved Destiny Ascension)

- Salarian fleets (with stealth Dreadnoughts)

- Turian fleets

- Countless other mercenary ships

All using Thannix Cannons (fighters included) which can take out a cruiser in about 2-3 shots.

 

Every cruiser (under the right circumstances) can take on a single destroyer himself.

 

There's also another thing,which is apparently canon.

Interferometric Array (Crucible War Asset)

 

Description: "Normally,interferometric arrays are used to analyze planetary landmasses, or to determine the astrophysical properties of a stellar system. The powerful array salvaged from the Hercules System can be used for something much more ambitious: The Crucible tunes into the mass relay's command switches.

Installing the interferometric array into the Crucible's systems results in a real-time map of the entire Galaxy,including the position of each and every Reaper in the Milky Way."

source

 

Combine all of that with a little bit of proper military strategy and you've got yourself a victory.