39 réponses à ce sujet

[gay_wardens]

Dragon Age II would've been fine without the repeat environment thing.  The writing was excellent.  Where are those writers now?  Where's that wonderful battle system? Dude, where's my tactics?  Do or do not cast frost bolt does not equate to tactics.  The tactics of DA II were fine.  The battle system was fine.  The repeat landscape, house (singular), alley (singular), and cave (singular) was not...but now we've gone overboard in the other direction...at the expense of all that was right and good in the DA world.

 

Bullshit! You don't have the right to complain anymore!

 

You pissed and moaned at Bioware about DA2 and look what they've given you! They tried as hard as EA would let them not to make it a disappointment again and GUESS WHAT? They butchered the combat system, but gave you all a grand old RPG experience, which is EXACTLY what you people wanted isn't it?

 

So sick of the uptight self righteous attitude DA2 haters have.

[DaemionMoadrin]

Bullshit! You don't have the right to complain anymore!

 

You pissed and moaned at Bioware about DA2 and look what they've given you! They tried as hard as EA would let them not to make it a disappointment again and GUESS WHAT? They butchered the combat system, but gave you all a grand old RPG experience, which is EXACTLY what you people wanted isn't it?

 

So sick of the uptight self righteous attitude DA2 haters have.

 

No, what they gave us is a half-assed Skyrim copy set in the DA universe with a predictable, short story, useless features (mounts) and a huge amount of filler elements that are identical to time sinks in MMOs.

 

DA2 was much, much better than this.

[SpiritMuse]

So basically it's like you sit in a restaurant and they serve you food. But you aren't supposed to eat all of it, because they will serve you the leftovers the next time you want to eat there... oh, and the only delicious part of the meal is hidden beneath the mashed potatoes.
 
You know, that's a problem. A short main quest that is being drowned in pointless side quests. A story RPG with 50%+ filler is -not- a good idea. There is so much optional content, so many maps we don't really need because most of them are just open, unused space... if they had used the resources from that for a tighter main story, for a complete Skyhold, for a better combat system... maybe people would be happier with the game now.

It's more like a buffet. There's loads and loads of food of all different kinds, some of which you may love, and some that you may not. You're not required to eat everything. You're not required to even take one of everything on your plate. The only restriction is you may not start with dessert.

And next time you come in there will be the exact same buffet, with the exact same foods. And you may choose to eat the same things you did last time, or you may try other things you didn't have before. It's all up to you.

I'm on my fourth playthrough and I haven't yet found a single side quest that I'd describe as pointless. Every exclamation mark on the map has at least a little story attached to it. All of it builds atmosphere, all of it makes the world seem more alive. I like it.

[gay_wardens]

No, what they gave us is a half-assed Skyrim copy set in the DA universe with a predictable, short story, useless features (mounts) and a huge amount of filler elements that are identical to time sinks in MMOs.

 

DA2 was much, much better than this.

 

multiplayer makes up for any flaws campaign has IMO, so on that note go nostalgia over mass effect some more, peace out

[DaemionMoadrin]

It's more like a buffet. There's loads and loads of food of all different kinds, some of which you may love, and some that you may not. You're not required to eat everything. You're not required to even take one of everything on your plate. The only restriction is you may not start with dessert.

And next time you come in there will be the exact same buffet, with the exact same foods. And you may choose to eat the same things you did last time, or you may try other things you didn't have before. It's all up to you.

I'm on my fourth playthrough and I haven't yet found a single side quest that I'd describe as pointless. Every exclamation mark on the map has at least a little story attached to it. All of it builds atmosphere, all of it makes the world seem more alive. I like it.

 

Hard to see it as a buffet when I ordered and expected a single meal with 3 courses. (Let's see how far we can take the food metaphor before it breaks apart. )

All the side quests are closed systems. What you do only matters for this single quest, not for the area or the ending of the game. Which makes them pointless. Remember that healer you sent to the refugees in the Hinterlands? Or how you convinced the cult to help the refugees? Makes zero difference.

 

In the end you only need to do a handful of the companion quests and that's probably enough power to progress the plot... but when I pay for an entire game, I kind of want to experience it. I can't just ignore entire areas, there might be something important/interesting there. It's now that I am looking back that I realize that I could have ignored 65% of the game without losing anything. Seems wrong to me.

[DaemionMoadrin]

multiplayer makes up for any flaws campaign has IMO, so on that note go nostalgia over mass effect some more, peace out

 

Eh what? Where did you get the Mass Effect from? I was talking about Dragon Age exclusively.

The MP is a total waste of time, it's designed to lure players into micro transactions and otherwise it's crap. I didn't buy a cRPG to ignore the campaign in favor for the MP...

 

Btw... you're pretty aggressive, any reason for that? Didn't get any presents?

[SpiritMuse]

Hard to see it as a buffet when I ordered and expected a single meal with 3 courses. (Let's see how far we can take the food metaphor before it breaks apart. )
All the side quests are closed systems. What you do only matters for this single quest, not for the area or the ending of the game. Which makes them pointless. Remember that healer you sent to the refugees in the Hinterlands? Or how you convinced the cult to help the refugees? Makes zero difference.
 
In the end you only need to do a handful of the companion quests and that's probably enough power to progress the plot... but when I pay for an entire game, I kind of want to experience it. I can't just ignore entire areas, there might be something important/interesting there. It's now that I am looking back that I realize that I could have ignored 65% of the game without losing anything. Seems wrong to me.

Challenge accepted.

I think it's more like you order the newly advertised meal experience without knowing exactly what it will be. Of course the advertising tells you stuff about it, and there are food critics who will review and give their opinion, but you don't truly know what it'll be and whether you'll really like it until you actually show up for your reservation.

How's that?

I personally don't really need every single side quest to impact the entire game. It doesn't make them pointless, not to me. They're flavor. Often for me doing them is its own reward. Plus, it can help in roleplaying the character. I often decide which quests to do that way - what would my Inquisitor do? Would they take the time to return a wedding ring to a grieving widow? Or would they rather use that time to hunt dragons because freaking dragons? Do they track down all the shards or do they want nothing to do with those creepy magics?

The one you mentioned, by the way, send the Redcliffe healer to Crossroads, is actually one of a few quests you can complete there that together ultimately net you an Agent for the Inquisition. So that may not be the best example.

[DaemionMoadrin]

Challenge accepted.

I think it's more like you order the newly advertised meal experience without knowing exactly what it will be. Of course the advertising tells you stuff about it, and there are food critics who will review and give their opinion, but you don't truly know what it'll be and whether you'll really like it until you actually show up for your reservation.

How's that?

I personally don't really need every single side quest to impact the entire game. It doesn't make them pointless, not to me. They're flavor. Often for me doing them is its own reward. Plus, it can help in roleplaying the character. I often decide which quests to do that way - what would my Inquisitor do? Would they take the time to return a wedding ring to a grieving widow? Or would they rather use that time to hunt dragons because freaking dragons? Do they track down all the shards or do they want nothing to do with those creepy magics?

The one you mentioned, by the way, send the Redcliffe healer to Crossroads, is actually one of a few quests you can complete there that together ultimately net you an Agent for the Inquisition. So that may not be the best example.

 

Hehe. That's an excellent metaphor.

The only agent I got was Lord Bertrand (?) in the cult, I wasn't aware there was anyone else. Or was it him?

Yeah, there are lots of better examples but you know what I meant.

[Maverick827]

DAI is actually a lot more like action games like Assassin's Creed and Far Cry than it is like Skyrim, to be honest.

[Elhanan]

I enjoy Skyrim and DAI. However, the latter plays and feels more like solo SWTOR to me rather than Skyrim.

[SpiritMuse]

Hehe. That's an excellent metaphor.
The only agent I got was Lord Bertrand (?) in the cult, I wasn't aware there was anyone else. Or was it him?
Yeah, there are lots of better examples but you know what I meant.

There are a lot of agents to recruit, actually! The cult itself is another one, if you tell speaker Anais to either look for secrets or spread the word they'll join Leliana or Josephine respectively iirc. The one I was talking about earlier is actually corporal Vale. And there's also a mage hanging around in Crossroads that you can also recruit, but only if you've done the quest where you have to bring her her phylactery and you have either Vivienne with you or the Arcane knowledge perk. And horsemaster Dennet can be recruited if you have the Underworld knowledge perk or the Knowledge Nobility perk (iirc) or you bring either Vivienne or Cassandra. And then there's a missing scout you can rescue and recruit with either the Underworld perk or Varric. A lot of agents' recruitment relies on stuff like that, actually. Complete any associated quests and ether have the appropriate knowledge perk or bring a specific companion or they won't come. Usually they'll stick around though and you can try to convince them again later.

I do get what you mean. If taking side roads away from the main story is not important or interesting to you then I can see how a lot of the smaller quests might seem pointless. But on the other hand, maybe some of those quests aren't quite as pointless as you think.

Buying a new game is always a bit of a gamble, no matter how much you learn before playing it, and I'm sorry this one didn't turn out so well for you. But I do like it, a lot, and I don't think I'm wrong for feeling that way. I suppose ultimately we prioritize different things in a game like this - and neither of us is stupid or wrong for doing so.



By the way, just for the record, I'm not a Skyrim fan either - I've tried to play it but every time I just kind of stop after the tutorial/prologue because I just don't know what I'm supposed to do next. That is too open ended even for me. XD But in DAI it's fine, I actually enjoy it.

[DaemionMoadrin]

There are a lot of agents to recruit, actually! The cult itself is another one, if you tell speaker Anais to either look for secrets or spread the word they'll join Leliana or Josephine respectively iirc. The one I was talking about earlier is actually corporal Vale. And there's also a mage hanging around in Crossroads that you can also recruit, but only if you've done the quest where you have to bring her her phylactery and you have either Vivienne with you or the Arcane knowledge perk. And horsemaster Dennet can be recruited if you have the Underworld knowledge perk or the Knowledge Nobility perk (iirc) or you bring either Vivienne or Cassandra. And then there's a missing scout you can rescue and recruit with either the Underworld perk or Varric. A lot of agents' recruitment relies on stuff like that, actually. Complete any associated quests and ether have the appropriate knowledge perk or bring a specific companion or they won't come. Usually they'll stick around though and you can try to convince them again later.

I do get what you mean. If taking side roads away from the main story is not important or interesting to you then I can see how a lot of the smaller quests might seem pointless. But on the other hand, maybe some of those quests aren't quite as pointless as you think.

Buying a new game is always a bit of a gamble, no matter how much you learn before playing it, and I'm sorry this one didn't turn out so well for you. But I do like it, a lot, and I don't think I'm wrong for feeling that way. I suppose ultimately we prioritize different things in a game like this - and neither of us is stupid or wrong for doing so.



By the way, just for the record, I'm not a Skyrim fan either - I've tried to play it but every time I just kind of stop after the tutorial/prologue because I just don't know what I'm supposed to do next. That is too open ended even for me. XD But in DAI it's fine, I actually enjoy it.

 

Oh, I got all these agents. I think I have 12 or 13 all together at the moment.

So far I have been doing every single quest. I cleared all but 2 maps, killed 4 or 5 dragons, did all the companion quests and the only remaining main quest is the assassination of Empress Celene. You know, the really, really urgent mission I totally should do before it's too late.

A good example for a side quest that doesn't matter would be bringing flowers to the grave of the old elf's wife. I also don't see how this translates into more power for the Inquisition... but okay.

 

I enjoyed Skyrim a lot although I only completed it once. Every single quest done. It's an entirely different concept than DA:I, one that starts with a truly open world and doesn't just pretend to have one to check another item on the feature list.

[Monica21]

It's more like a buffet. There's loads and loads of food of all different kinds, some of which you may love, and some that you may not. You're not required to eat everything. You're not required to even take one of everything on your plate. The only restriction is you may not start with dessert.

And next time you come in there will be the exact same buffet, with the exact same foods. And you may choose to eat the same things you did last time, or you may try other things you didn't have before. It's all up to you.

I'm on my fourth playthrough and I haven't yet found a single side quest that I'd describe as pointless. Every exclamation mark on the map has at least a little story attached to it. All of it builds atmosphere, all of it makes the world seem more alive. I like it.

 

The reason (well, one of them) I stopped playing Bethesda games was because of Oblivion. In Patrick Stewart's dying breath he gives you this terribly important, world-saving quest, which you can then proceed to completely ignore unless/until you actually ever feel like getting to it. I have no idea if Skyrim handled whatever world-saving mission your PC is on any better, but seriously.

 

The buffet analogy is good, but you're still going to have completionists who need eat everything on the buffet. From an RP perspective it gives you a lot of options to get the power and influence you need to get to the next major story point. From a purely gameplay perspective, I feel overwhelmed by the sheer amount of stuff that's in my journal. I'm level 16 and I there are a couple of things I don't even know if I should bother doing them at this point. But there they are, sitting in my journal and glaring at me, all unfinished.

 

For example, I'm in Emprise du Lion right now. It's fine and it's a good story mission, but why do I need to be there? The only reason I'm there is because it's a place on the map. I have more than enough power to get to the next storyline mission, but it feels like I'm just killing time.

[SpiritMuse]

Oh, I got all these agents. I think I have 12 or 13 all together at the moment.
So far I have been doing every single quest. I cleared all but 2 maps, killed 4 or 5 dragons, did all the companion quests and the only remaining main quest is the assassination of Empress Celene. You know, the really, really urgent mission I totally should do before it's too late.
A good example for a side quest that doesn't matter would be bringing flowers to the grave of the old elf's wife. I also don't see how this translates into more power for the Inquisition... but okay.

I enjoyed Skyrim a lot although I only completed it once. Every single quest done. It's an entirely different concept than DA:I, one that starts with a truly open world and doesn't just pretend to have one to check another item on the feature list.

A little quest like that doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things (though I imagine things like that would gain some goodwill with the people, hence power and/or influence) but it might be something that's important to your inquisitor personally. Plus, it's flavor. Detail. Something small and personal to remind you of what the "little people" are going through in this war. Here's a poor man who can't bring flowers to his wife's grave anymore because of all the mess. IIRC, isn't it your Inquisitor who offers to do it? I don't think he actually asks you.

As for the empress, well, the ball is at a set date, right? Essentially you're time skipping ahead, or not, it depends on when you imagine that date to be. It could very well be months away, leaving you lots of time to do other things.

The reason (well, one of them) I stopped playing Bethesda games was because of Oblivion. In Patrick Stewart's dying breath he gives you this terribly important, world-saving quest, which you can then proceed to completely ignore unless/until you actually ever feel like getting to it. I have no idea if Skyrim handled whatever world-saving mission your PC is on any better, but seriously.

The buffet analogy is good, but you're still going to have completionists who need eat everything on the buffet. From an RP perspective it gives you a lot of options to get the power and influence you need to get to the next major story point. From a purely gameplay perspective, I feel overwhelmed by the sheer amount of stuff that's in my journal. I'm level 16 and I there are a couple of things I don't even know if I should bother doing them at this point. But there they are, sitting in my journal and glaring at me, all unfinished.

For example, I'm in Emprise du Lion right now. It's fine and it's a good story mission, but why do I need to be there? The only reason I'm there is because it's a place on the map. I have more than enough power to get to the next storyline mission, but it feels like I'm just killing time.

But isn't the reason for going to Emprise du Lion that there's signs of a big Red Templar operation there? Seems not unrelated to the main goal of the Inquisition, even if it's not essential to the main quest. That's what I remember, anyway.


I guess the difference is that I'm not really a completionist. So I don't mind quests staying open in the quest log, and I have no trouble not finishing one if it doesn't fit my Inquisitor's personality. In fact, I barely check the quest lot at all. I usually check the map for any quests in the area that I might be interested in.

[Monica21]

But isn't the reason for going to Emprise du Lion that there's signs of a big Red Templar operation there? Seems not unrelated to the main goal of the Inquisition, even if it's not essential to the main quest. That's what I remember, anyway.
 

Yes it's related, but it doesn't advance the story, therefore it's not necessary. From an RP perspective I can pat myself on the back for helping people and getting rid of the Red Templars, but from a gameplay perspective I'm sure that there was a town I could have saved from the darkspawn way back in Origins, but instead, I had to go get the Urn of Sacred Ashes even though Teagan should have been able to step into Eamon's role and called the Landsmeet, what with Eamon being all incapacitated and stuff.