860 réponses à ce sujet

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

My Arsenal:

 

Spoiler

 

Seriously weapons are illegal here. Even cold weapons need some license.

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

I find it funny that the creator of this anime-movie is Miyazaki:

 

 

and this airplane's manufacturer was also Miyazaki:

 

http://en.wikipedia....yazaki_Airplane

 

[ME_Fan]

You want to talk big? This is what I'm training to pilot, the C-17 Globemaster. Can get over 500MPH even with a full 75,000 KG cargo capacity or up to 100 paratrooper transport capability.

 

[Serza]

Hey, 'sup! You guys talking warbirds?

 

GO STYLISH.

 

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

^ Educated guess: It's called Mustang and is one of the last propeller fighters to be designed?

[Serza]

^ Educated guess: It's called Mustang and is one of the last propeller fighters to be designed?

 

P-51D Mustang. I think Glamorous Glen III was a D-20NA. It's also Chuck Yeager's aircraft. That's the man to first break the speed of sound.

[Fidite Nemini]

P-51D Mustang. I think Glamorous Glen III was a D-20NA. It's also Chuck Yeager's aircraft. That's the man to first break the speed of sound.

 

First man to break the speed of sound that's documented and verified. There's a couple unverified reports that german testpilots achieved breaking the sound barrier in dives with the ME 262, though largely discounted as being hogwash, which is reasonable given that none of those instance can be verified as they aren't documented or documentation doesn't appear credible.

[Dermain]

First man to break the speed of sound that's documented and verified. There's a couple unverified reports that german testpilots achieved breaking the sound barrier in dives with the ME 262, though largely discounted as being hogwash, which is reasonable given that none of those instance can be verified as they aren't documented or documentation doesn't appear credible.

 

You can be almost assured that if the Germans had broken the sound barrier it would be typed up in triplicate with audio and video recordings also in triplicate.

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

Pfft, that speed of sound (barrier, mach, whatever) is overrated! I like some airplanes with 700-900 Km/h speed.

[Serza]

First man to break the speed of sound that's documented and verified. There's a couple unverified reports that german testpilots achieved breaking the sound barrier in dives with the ME 262, though largely discounted as being hogwash, which is reasonable given that none of those instance can be verified as they aren't documented or documentation doesn't appear credible.

 

I don't know, but isn't the Schwalbe's break-up velocity actually lower than the speed of sound?

 

 

Edit: Yeah. Schwalbe goes nearly 900km/h straight. Speed of sound is about 1200km/h. There is no way they built a frame that could withstand over 300km/h more than the plane's maximum TAS. I haven't heard of a plane that ever achieved that.

 

Pfft, that speed of sound (barrier, mach, whatever) is overrated! I like some airplanes with 700-900 Km/h speed.

 

F9F Panther. MiG killer.

 

 

You can be almost assured that if the Germans had broken the sound barrier it would be typed up in triplicate with audio and video recordings also in triplicate.

 

This, this, this.

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

^ Cool.

 

[bEVEsthda]

First man to break the speed of sound that's documented and verified. There's a couple unverified reports that german testpilots achieved breaking the sound barrier in dives with the ME 262, though largely discounted as being hogwash, which is reasonable given that none of those instance can be verified as they aren't documented or documentation doesn't appear credible.

Yes.

First man to break the speed of sound.

Period.

 

But it isn't the absence of positive verification. It's the presence of negative verification.

The originators of urban legends seem to assume that the Me 262 is some kind of mystery, like Bigfoot or the Yeti, around which can be spun "theories" and rumors? That's not the case. The Me 262 is well known. Including its never-exceed-speed of Mach 0.84, and it going out of control somewhere around Mach 0.86 and then breaking up.

[Giant ambush beetle]

I've too heard the ME's could break the sound barrier, when the war was almost over the Germans even considered giving the last few ME's a swept back wing design because when the ME's broke the sound barrier the air shock waves broke their straight wings.  

Yeah, they only cold do 800-850 km/h, but getting another couple of hundred km/h when diving in high altitude sounds plausible to me. 

[Fidite Nemini]

Yes.

First man to break the speed of sound.

Period.

 

But it isn't the absence of positive verification. It's the presence of negative verification.

The originators of urban legends seem to assume that the Me 262 is some kind of mystery, like Bigfoot or the Yeti, around which can be spun "theories" and rumors? That's not the case. The Me 262 is well known. Including its never-exceed-speed of Mach 0.84, and it going out of control somewhere around Mach 0.86 and then breaking up.

 

Unless the article I read about it is full of BS, the case isn't exactly as clear cut regarding the ME 262. That aside, I did emphasize the unlikelyhood of such claims didn't I?

 

Also, yet again: Chuck Yeager is the first verified and documented person to break the sound barrier. Who's to say a couple pilots didn't happen to match and exceed Mach 1, but didn't live to tell the tale, exactly because airframes weren't designed for it and they lost control and subsequently crashed?

 

First verified/documented instance doesn't necessarily equal first instance of it ever having happened.

[Cknarf]

Speakin' of German stuff, I always thought these were cool.

 

[Jstatham1227]

 

Might be to hot of weaponry for me.  

[Fidite Nemini]

Speakin' of German stuff, I always thought these were cool.

 

 

The Me 163?

 

Yeah, about as cool as being strapped to a rocket ...

[Cknarf]

 

Spoiler

An F-16 Fighting Falcon assigned to the 332nd Expeditionary Fighter Squadron at Balad Air Base, Iraq, takes off on an Operation Iraqi Freedom mission Friday, July 21. The F-16 jet is deployed from the 183rd Fighter Wing at Springfield Air National Guard, Ill., and provides close-air support and "eyes in the skies" intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance for ground forces during combat operations. (U.S. Air Force photo/Staff Sgt. Tony R. Tolley)

 

I miss the F-16s of the 183rd. They've been gone for a few years now.  Grandpa lived real close to the airport, so they'd always be making passes over his neighborhood.

 

Oh well. Civilian aircraft still flyover, so that's cool I guess.

[bEVEsthda]

 

Unless the article I read about it is full of BS, the case isn't exactly as clear cut regarding the ME 262. That aside, I did emphasize the unlikelyhood of such claims didn't I?

 

Also, yet again: Chuck Yeager is the first verified and documented person to break the sound barrier. Who's to say a couple pilots didn't happen to match and exceed Mach 1, but didn't live to tell the tale, exactly because airframes weren't designed for it and they lost control and subsequently crashed?

 

First verified/documented instance doesn't necessarily equal first instance of it ever having happened.

 

(Yes, you did call the claims as unlikely, which is why I begun my post with an affirmative "Yes".)

 

I think the article makes an excellent job of reinforcing my position.

If you're thinking of Mutke, I think it's pretty obvious what happened, and it's not entirely unique either. It happened to some P-38 pilots too. They also managed to trim themselves out of an otherwise unrecoverable dive, before they died. That's all.

Mutke probably believed he broke the sound barrier. But from when his plane becomes uncontrollable, there is still a good way to go to the speed of sound. And his story and memory of details is heavily influenced by Yeager's account, so I would rather think it's a case of synthesized memories. He reads it and goes: "- Oh yeah! That must have been what happened to me!" 

 

Look, the way I see it, if all the designers, engineers and flight reports say no, and there is a loose tale floating around that says something different, it doesn't mean that the case is not exactly clear cut. There will always be tales.

 

Is it possible that some people exceeded the speed of sound, before they flew into the ground?

Well, this depends on how much propulsion the plane needs to overcome the drag. Since WW2 fighters (except for the Me 163 with its rocket engine) wouldn't have any propulsion from their engine at all, at those speeds, the weight of the aircraft would have to be enough. Would it be? I don't know. But it's something one could look into. Later fighters, 50'ies, 60'ies, certainly had so low wave drag that they could fall through the sound barrier.

But doesn't all this start to be irrelevant and unqualified? I mean that it doesn't count as having flown supersonic. Where do we draw the line? Is it okay if the wings have been torn off?

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

I see not many talk about F-14 Tomcat.

 

 

And its wings are very interesting:

 

 

I think it's because F-14 is an Iran-exclusive fighter now!

 

So how good is it?

 

General characteristics

• Crew: 2 (Pilot and Radar Intercept Officer)
• Length: 62 ft 9 in (19.1 m)
• Wingspan:
  • Spread: 64 ft (19.55 m)
  • Swept: 38 ft (11.58 m)
• Height: 16 ft (4.88 m)
• Wing area: 565 ft² (54.5 m²)
• Airfoil: NACA 64A209.65 mod root, 64A208.91 mod tip
• Empty weight: 43,735 lb (19,838 kg)
• Loaded weight: 61,000 lb (27,700 kg)
• Max. takeoff weight: 74,350 lb (33,720 kg)
• Powerplant: 2 × General Electric F110-GE-400 afterburning turbofans
  • Dry thrust: 13,810 lbf (61.4 kN) each
  • Thrust with afterburner: 27,800 lbf (123.7 kN) each
• Maximum fuel capacity: 16,200 lb internal; 20,000 lb with 2x 267 gallon external tanks^[34]

Performance

• Maximum speed: Mach 2.34 (1,544 mph, 2,485 km/h) at high altitude
• Combat radius: 500 nmi (575 mi, 926 km)
• Ferry range: 1,600 nmi (1,840 mi, 2,960 km)
• Service ceiling: 50,000+ ft (15,200 m)
• Rate of climb: >45,000 ft/min (229 m/s)
• Wing loading: 113.4 lb/ft² (553.9 kg/m²)
• Thrust/weight: 0.92

[Cknarf]

Pictured: Coolest livery ever.

 

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

^

Retired 22 September 2006

[Cknarf]

[Serza]

 

Unless the article I read about it is full of BS, the case isn't exactly as clear cut regarding the ME 262. That aside, I did emphasize the unlikelyhood of such claims didn't I?

 

Also, yet again: Chuck Yeager is the first verified and documented person to break the sound barrier. Who's to say a couple pilots didn't happen to match and exceed Mach 1, but didn't live to tell the tale, exactly because airframes weren't designed for it and they lost control and subsequently crashed?

 

First verified/documented instance doesn't necessarily equal first instance of it ever having happened.

 

Well, I don't happen to count the poor sods who exceeded the maximum airspeed... and subsequently died because of it.

 

I only count those who managed to, y'know, LIVE TO TELL THE DAMN TALE.

 

Speakin' of German stuff, I always thought these were cool.

 

 

Fuel is extremely flammable, unreliable chemical substance. If it makes contact with the human skin, you're pretty much FUBAR.

 

Yeeeah, I think I'd rather strap myself to ten pounds of C4 while somebody ELSE holds the detonator.

 

 

Might be to hot of weaponry for me.  

 

Well, her finger's off the trigger. I'll give her that.

[Cknarf]

Good trigger discipline is hella sexy.