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Weapons thread (Cold & Warm)


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#501
bEVEsthda

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This is Germany's one shot at having a competitive fighter later in the war and this is how they played it.

 

messerschmitt-me-309-prototype-1.jpg

 

 

This is the Messerschmidt Me 309. 

There are some right ideas here. Such as that maybe the Bf 109 did need to be replaced one day, and building the 309 around a big engine.

 

But my main impression from this project is the lack of urgency, lack of seriousness. The German Air Ministry seemed to only show lukewarm interest, both in the aircraft and then also in the engine, the DB 603. But then, Messerschmidt themselves also seemed to leisurely fool around with geeky features. It's as if the air ministry was only interested in the current light aircraft which they were going to use in the Polish campaign. There is no tomorrow. And Messerschmidt seemed to assume that no foreign fighter will ever challenge his designs, so he can afford some luxury.

 

The DB 603 was Germany's big engine, 44.5 litre displacement. The DB 601 and DB 605 which powered the Bf 109 had 33.9 and 35.7 litres displacement. By comparison, the Merlin and Allison had 27 and 28 litre displacement. But this was because Britain and US used considerably higher octane fuels than Germany. This meant they could use higher compressor boost pressures without encountering detonation. This was brought on by pre-war developments in Britain and US, such as air racing and commercial competition, mail planes, also championed by individuals like Reginald Mitchell (Spitfire designer) and James Doolittle.

Anyway, development of the DB 603 was not exactly forced, nor a priority, so it was allowed to have problems for a long time. DB 601/605 was cheaper. Its lack of potential did not worry the Germans at this time.

 

Then the 309 featured things which did not belong on a fighter design which intends to go all out in a competitive environment:

Pressurized cockpit. More comfortable for the pilot, I'm sure, but also added weight, complexity, maintenance and vulnerability, and reduced reliability.

Tricycle landing gear. Again, convenient for the pilot, but on a front engine, propeller aircraft also added weight and structural complexity. And in this case probably compromised aerodynamics as well.

 

All these things plagued the Me 309 with technical problems, but it also had pure design problems. Willi Messerschmidt had as usual tried to minimize wet drag and left the airframe with insufficient stability. A larger fin and tail plane were eventually fitted, but the fuselage really needed to be lengthened in a redesign.

And then the usual, draggy German cooler. Not much to say about it, since it was typical. The Germans believed in compact, lightweight, "efficient" coolers. But the path to nullify cooler drag is the opposite.

 

Messerschmidt meant business when he designed the Bf 109. On the 309, he seemed to fool around with things he was interested in? What would it have looked like if he had meant business?

 

Anyway, once the weapons were added to the weight, the Me 309 failed to improve on the much cheaper Bf 109. End of story.

The Germans didn't really get another chance. Later, it was too late.


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#502
bEVEsthda

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Good trigger discipline is hella sexy.

 

You noted that.   :devil:



#503
Aimi

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Around the turn of the 20th century, conventional battleship design emphasised the use of a range of gun calibres - 2-4 large calibre guns (typically between 9-12") for long range combat, and a battery of medium calibre (6-9") guns for the higher rate of fire at closer ranges. However, both gunnery testing and the operational experience learned from the Russian-Japanese War had begun to suggest that this paradigm was inefficient, as the bulk of damage was dealt by the largest guns, and the smaller calibre ones made fire control more difficult by increasing the number of shell impacts thus making it harder to determine which shell landed where. The logical conclusion was to switch the design of warship's main batteries over to entirely high calibre weapons, with only small calibre (3-5") secondary weapons to fend off torpedo boats. The Japanese were the first to attempt such a ship, but shortages of suitable weapons meant that the Satsuma had a mixed battery, leaving to opportunity for a truly revolutionary design of warship open to the British.

 
Yeah. Not a whole lot to argue with there: good stuff. I'm going to use this as a springboard to talk about a pet topic if you don't mind. :)

Mixed-armament construction (and, arguably, the emphasis on casemate weapons over turret weapons) was the legacy of the Battle of Lissa in 1866, the decisive Austrian naval victory over the Italian fleet. Admiral Wilhelm Tegetthoff's line-ahead tactics came to dominate theoretical conceptions of the battle line until the early twentieth century; when Russian admirals steamed at the IJN in line-ahead formation in the Yellow Sea and off Tsushima, they were practicing naval orthodoxy, and Tōgō's "crossing the T" maneuver was relatively novel (although he certainly wasn't the first to formulate it), as was his decision to open fire at what was at the time an extreme range. Also, the experience of the Russo-Japanese War helped induce the addition of another bit of tertiary armament to almost all dreadnoughts: torpedo tubes, which ended up being laughably irrelevant in battle in the Great War.

Anyway. The "all big gun" idea wasn't really the genesis of HMS Dreadnought. The idea had been mooted before; the Italian navy had rejected such a proposal, but by 1904 the American, British, and Japanese fleets were already drawing up plans for all big gun capital ships for precisely that reason. (The Japanese ended up shelving the design for awhile due to material constraints and finished the Satsuma predreadnoughts first, as you said.)

What really spawned the dreadnought was Fisher's interest in a global fleet and the means to project power over vast distances: centered around the battlecruiser, a new breed of fast hybrid capital ship with top-notch speed and armament, which would sacrifice armor to obtain those superlatives. Fisher's focus was on battlecruisers; only budget fights with battleship enthusiasts, combined with Britain's changing strategic paradigm, forced the construction of HMS Dreadnought as an interim compromise solution. With Russia increasingly neutralized, France friendly, and Japan allied, British planners in 1904-05 saw Germany as the new prime foe, and close-in engagements in the North Sea would dominate any potential war, not global campaigns by fast warships. Dreadnought, under this reading, was an accident that derailed the original new naval paradigm. It came to define capital ships for decades in a way that was never actually intended.

The primary differentiation between dreadnought and battlecruiser was armor, not size, which is something that seems to be persistently surprising to many people who assume "battlecruiser" means "cruiser" means "smaller than a battleship". Battlecruisers were easily as large as any dreadnought (if not larger, in most cases); battlecruisers SMS Derfflinger and HMS Lion both displaced about 26,000 tons while their contemporary dreadnought class leaders SMS König and HMS Iron Duke displaced about 25,000 tons each. As with most classes of capital ship, "more armor" meant different things to different people. German battlecruisers tended to have about the same armor thickness in most areas as did British dreadnoughts, corresponding to a (generally) 100 mm-thickness advantage over British battlecruisers, and also enjoyed an improved bulkhead design that allowed German ships to take on considerably greater amounts of water while retaining buoyancy.

Only three countries built battlecruisers: Britain, at Fisher's behest (including two vessels raised by subscription from the dominions of Australia and New Zealand); Germany, to counter the British; and Japan, to ape the British. Japan's Kongō class was essentially a superior version of the best prewar British battlecruisers, the Lions; after the Washington Naval Treaty, they were extensively modified to exclusively burn oil (the original boilers burned coal sprayed with fuel oil) and incorporate more armor, and were eventually reclassified as 'fast battleships'. The German Derfflingers were a slightly different paradigm, incorporating more armor than the Japanese and British designs, and were generally better suited to service in the North Sea theater while lacking the legs to conduct the long-range missions that the island nations' fleets regularly mounted. The three Derfflingers made use of both coal- and oil-fired boilers instead of the hybrids employed by the Japanese.

Germany's battlecruisers played an outsize role compared to their relatively paltry numbers. SMS Goeben, centerpiece of the Mittelmeerdivision, eluded British and French pursuers at the outbreak of war to reach the Ottoman Empire, where her presence eventually contributed to the crisis that brought the Ottomans into the war. Turkey's entry fundamentally changed the conflict, and Goeben effected it with spectacular efficiency. Renamed Yavuz Sultan Selim, she became the flagship of the Ottoman fleet (still crewed primarily by Germans) and after the war she was the flagship of the Republic of Turkey until the 1970s. Yavuz was the last battlecruiser in the world to be in service.

This is not to undersell the relevance of the battlecruisers that spent the war in the North Sea; they formed the vanguard of the Hochseeflotte and enjoyed a favorable kill ratio over their British opponents.

Britain's battlecruisers had a decidedly more mixed career during the conflict. There were successes, to be sure. Their superior speed and armament outclassed the German light-cruiser raiders that dispersed into the world's oceans at the outbreak of war, and British battlecruisers confronted the German Ostasiengeschwader off the Falklands in December 1914, crushing the only major German cruiser command outside Europe and ending any real threat to global commerce until the onset of submarine warfare. That extra speed came in handy: the battlecruisers were easily able to catch up with the fleeing Germans after the initial skirmish, and in a strategic sense their speed was crucial in allowing the battlecruisers to leave the Grand Fleet and return before the Hochseeflotte could take advantage of their absence.

But more seriously, Britain's battlecruisers were not well protected enough for a stand-up fight. In the opening phase of the Battle of Jutland, the German battlecruisers of Franz von Hipper's I. Aufklärungsgruppe sank three British battlecruisers for no loss of their own. (Later on in the battle, after the main fleets engaged, the battlecruiser SMS Lützow sustained 24 shell hits from British dreadnoughts and was forced to withdraw under tow, but took on too much water and had to be abandoned and scuttled before she could make port.) All three - HMS Invincible, HMS Indefatigable, and HMS Queen Mary - were destroyed by catastrophic explosions with few survivors. Several other battlecruisers, including HMS Lion, sustained heavy damage. Vice Admiral David Beatty, the commander of the 1st Battlecruiser Squadron, reportedly commented that "there seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today" after hearing that HMS Princess Royal had been damaged (erroneously reported as destroyed). The engagement exposed severe defects in British capital ship construction, munitions safety, and munitions composition. These problems were only somewhat addressed during the war; fortunately for the British battlecruisers, they never had to do battle with the Germans again despite a few near misses.

British battlecruisers remained an integral part of the Royal Navy during the interwar years, with design somewhat improved in later models to account for the armoring issues that came up at Jutland. These efforts, while probably sufficient for First World War opponents, proved to be seriously flawed against Second World War ones. In 1941, the newest and most powerful battlecruiser, HMS Hood, was engaged by the modern German battleship Bismarck. Hood had been launched in 1920, but underwent some modernization programs along with the HMS Repulse and Renown to keep abreast of naval technology. Those programs didn't seem to help much. During the battle against the Bismarck, Hood sustained hits on the aft turrets that apparently inflicted severe damage; shortly afterward, the ship was destroyed by an explosion in her aft magazine, although the exact cause of the explosion remains under some dispute. Later that year, HMS Repulse - along with the modern battleship HMS Prince of Wales - was sunk by Japanese torpedo bombers off Malaya. Repulse hadn't received all the upgrades that Renown and Hood had gotten, but more importantly, she had no air cover and had to defend herself with her native AA emplacements, which were hopelessly inadequate to the task.

HMS Renown was the only modernized British battlecruiser to survive the Second World War. After engaging the Scharnhorst and Gneisenau during the Nazi invasion of Norway, she mostly served in a secondary role, bombarding Axis coastal installations and providing fire support during Operation TORCH. She was sold for scrap in 1948.

HMS Furious, a special battlecruiser constructed by Fisher as part of his (ludicrous) "Baltic Project", was converted to an aircraft carrier in construction. She was rebuilt with a better flight deck in the 1920s and continued to serve as an aircraft carrier throughout the Second World War. Like Renown, she was scrapped in 1948. Furious' two sister ships, HMS Courageous and HMS Glorious, also became aircraft carriers but were sunk in the early part of the Second World War.
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#504
bEVEsthda

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I've too heard the ME's could break the sound barrier, when the war was almost over the Germans even considered giving the last few ME's a swept back wing design because when the ME's broke the sound barrier the air shock waves broke their straight wings.  

Yeah, they only cold do 800-850 km/h, but getting another couple of hundred km/h when diving in high altitude sounds plausible to me. 

 

Well, the reality of matters, behind these perceptions and tales, is a bit more complex.

 

The Me 262 already had a swept wing. There were studies of derivatives of the Me 262. This is quite normal. But yes, Me 262 developments with more advanced, swept wings.

 

There were pencil sketches of a lot of things in nazi Germany towards the end. There were pencil sketches of a lot of things in Britain and US too. As I said, it's normal. But the Germans were desperate, and today they have this loud publicity group, which we can call the “Luft'46-fanboys” to widely market this stuff. To these people, these pencil drawings represent ready, developed technology, of an almost Science-Fiction'esque state of advancement. And their media disinformation efforts have – for instance - made what was really just a plywood flying wing, fitted with jet-engines, into the “forerunner” and “inspiration” for the B-2 stealth bomber. This is so horribly wrong and distorted that I don't know if to vomit or cry.

 

- There is exactly zero stealth technology in the Ho 229! Which is why, despite its shape and being built of wood, it has a radar signature which completely falls into the ball park of normal!  - Unlike the also wooden, British Mosquito, which really was somewhat stealthy, ...if you want to talk WW2 stealth...

 

The reality is that Germany was behind US and Britain, in a lot of things regarding aviation technology. And they were ahead in some things.

And if you think about things, isn't that exactly the situation you would expect?

Before and during the WW2, aerodynamics was an exploratory science. There were huge gaps in knowledge. Aircraft were designed much by intuition and a few thumb rules. Lack of computers and base science meant that the most useful tool was wind tunnels. They would craft models of solid wood and then measure the forces these models were subject to, in a wind tunnel. The problem is that everything doesn't scale perfectly. On the contrary, the viscous properties of air, which don't scale, and the stiff, inflexible models, would often feed back erroneous information.

The only way to come past this, was real experience from how real aircraft designs had worked out. This is where much of the US leadership originated. They had not designed many military aircraft before, but through their long established and extensive commercial competition, American designers and engineers knew things which were less well grasped elsewhere. The British too, had a long cumulative experience to rely on.

The German designers were less experienced, but the excellent German schools instilled a strong scientific attitude.

 

One of the problems facing the WW2 aviation engineers, was that as speeds and altitudes progressively increased, things were prone to change drastically. One reason was aeroelastic effects. Structures which were not stiff enough would flex and warp from the aerodynamic forces, and thus change the aerodynamic properties of the plane, always to the worse. Hardly any US plane and virtually all Japanese planes would suffer from this.

 

Another problem was the occurrence of a new phenomenon called 'compressibility'. Air sweeps around the contours of an aircraft by accelerating the stream around bulges. But this increased speed of flow will refuse to transcend the speed of sound. So instead the air will compress. When this happens, all deals are broken. Drag will increase dramatically. But, generally, an aircraft - not designed for this - will eventually also become uncontrollable.

 

The British relied on their experience to solve this. They made their wing profiles thinner. Reginald Mitchell, the Spitfire designer, had known a lot of things he shouldn't have known, and which no one else knew, and then he died and took all his secrets with him in the grave. And he had given the Spitfire a much thinner wing profile than was well known to be the aerodynamically and structurally optimum for its time. But as the Spitfire versions flew higher and got faster and faster, it had no problems at all with compressibility. So the British applied this solution that already worked on their new planes.

 

The Americans did it differently. They introduced a wing profile that had its maximum thickness much farther aft than was considered and measured as the normal aerodynamic ideal. It was shaped to feed the energy into the air flow slowly and constantly. And they also applied the same formula to the shape of their fuselages. This also solved the compressibility problem, while retaining the advantages of a thick wing, such as more storage capacity and a wider low-drag Cl range.
But they did this by a successful mistake. They were fooled by erroneous wind tunnel data to believe that it was possible to have “laminar boundary flow” over a quarter of the wing area, and they shaped the wing profile to achieve this. In reality it is impossible for an aircraft the size and performance of a WW2 combat plane to achieve any laminar boundary flow. It was just a misleading wind tunnel phenomenon. Only model planes and slow gliders/sail planes with very narrow wings can achieve this in reality.
- But boy does it solve the compressibility problem!

 

The Germans, true to their meticulous nature, took the scientific approach. They instigated a high speed wind tunnel research program. Much higher speeds than they had aircraft projects for. And this is where they made some important progress. The most notable is the low transonic drag of a swept back wing.

 

However, it should be noted that no aircraft was built during WW2, which incorporated this aerodynamic data and knowledge!
It didn't stop the Germans from designing a bunch of them, but they never got to finish building any of them. And they didn't really have any engines for most of them.

 

Both US and Germany did build a number of designs with swept back wings during WW2. The Me 262 is one of them. However, these designs were not based on the above aerodynamic data. They were motivated by other reasons. Stability, for tailless designs. Aero-elastic concerns (wing twisting in the right direction). And center of gravity vs lift balance. The Me 262 didn't fly fast enough to really profit from the low transonic drag.

 

Now after the war is a whole different party!
Some American companies were so excited by the German research data that they used it promptly and directly, without own wind tunnel data, on their own aircraft projects which already were well under way. This required them to use clones of German wing profiles, as these were the ones used in the German data. This is how the North American F-86 Sabre and the Boeing B-47 Stratojet came to have what essentially is Messerschmidt wing profiles. The Americans might have had better profiles, but they didn't have the swept wing engineering data on them. The coupe certainly gave these manufacturers an upper hand on their more conservative competition.

 

The Russians also captured this German research data, and together with the gift of their most advanced jet engine, from the extremely naive, semi-communist, newly elected socialist British government, it eventually re-emerged as the Mig-15 over Korean skies.

 

Somehow it also found its secret way to Sweden, where yet another very capable jet fighter also emerged, the SAAB J29.


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#505
PhroXenGold

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HMS Furious, a special battlecruiser constructed by Fisher as part of his (ludicrous) "Baltic Project", was converted to an aircraft carrier in construction. She was rebuilt with a better flight deck in the 1920s and continued to serve as an aircraft carrier throughout the Second World War. Like Renown, she was scrapped in 1948. Furious' two sister ships, HMS Courageous and HMS Glorious, also became aircraft carriers but were sunk in the early part of the Second World War.

 

Ah, the Furious. The point at which it became clear that Fisher had well and truly jumped the shark. It's sister ships were bad enough, but that thing was beyond stupid. It's main guns (all two of them....) fired heavier shells that the Yamato did for god's sake.  :lol:

 

Anyway, that was a great post Aimi :)

 

As an aside, those guns made for the Furious ended up on these things:

 

WNBR_18-40_mk1_Lord_Clive_painting_pic.j

 

The Lord Clive class monitors, that were used to bombard the German coast in the latter days of WW1.


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#506
Kaiser Arian XVII

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Oh... the glory of Yamato!

 

Yamato_battleship_under_construction.jpg

 

ijn-yamato-battleship.jpg


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#507
PhroXenGold

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This battleship talk reminds me of a rather cool image a found a little while back while browsing for stuff:

 

1NpeESg.jpg

 

Of particular note are the first two ships in line "G" - the never completed Lion class.


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#508
PhroXenGold

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In the mood for more ship porn...

 

The Richelieu. Whatever you say about how well they used them, the French new how to make their weapons look damn good.

Spoiler

 

Or how about the Italians? Here's the Vittorio Veneto:

Spoiler

 

America of course, needs to have their ships accompanied by explosions, so here's the Iowa testing those 16" guns....

Spoiler

 

And as a bonus for those of you with a good knowledge of warships, any thoughts on this (without cheating and looking at the image name...)?

g3.jpg

 

 

 


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#509
The Invader

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The French built Panhard EBR FL 10 Type 1954 Armored Car.
Bj7dWwU.jpg

Crew: 4
Armament: (main) 75mm turret with auto loader, 7.5 MG(Co-axial).
Engine: 12 cylinder

Unfortunately I don't know it's top speed, but this thing was a beast. It was meant to be a shoot and scoot Tank Hunter however, if I recall correctly the French only built a small number of them( I could be wrong ).

#510
PhroXenGold

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By a "small number", you mean over a thousand? (at least for the EBR in general, not sure about the 1954 model specifically) ;)

 

Interestingly, the later models upped the main gun to 90mm, giving the EBR extremely impressive firepower for such a vehicle.



#511
Fidite Nemini

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bai_v1828806360.png

 

Do I need to say why?


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#512
bEVEsthda

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In the mood for more ship porn...

 

And as a bonus for those of you with a good knowledge of warships, any thoughts on this (without cheating and looking at the image name...)?

g3.jpg

 

 

Looks like what Nelson and Rodney were intended to look like?  Before the treaty?

 

If so, then that is a fake photo, since they were never built that way.



#513
PhroXenGold

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Looks like what Nelson and Rodney were intended to look like?  Before the treaty?

 

If so, then that is a fake photo, since they were never built that way.

 

Pretty much. It is indeed a fake photo, and it shows the likely appearance of the G3 class battlecruiser, one of the two final designs that resulted from the post WW1 studies done in the United Kingdom. The project got as far as having orders places with shipyards in late 1921, before the Washington Naval Conference put it on hold, and the subsequent treaty lead to the outright cancellation. The NelRods incorporated much of the work done of the G3 and its sister the N3 in their design (indeed, their designation was O3, indicating they were a continuation of the battleship side of the earlier projects).

 

The G3 was, in all honesty, a battlecruiser only in name - and she was only given that designation because the N3 was even more heavily armed and armoured - having thicker belt armour and more and larger guns (9x16") than the RN's most powerful battleships, the Queen Elizabeth class, while still being designed to have a speed of 32kts, faster than the Admiral class battlecruiser. The unusual turret layout - two forward, one amidships - was chosen to reduce the length of the armoured citadel required to protect the ship's vitals, thus reducing the weight of armour required to achieve the desired thickness, and this was combined with a novel (for the British at least) all-or-nothing armour layout, in which non-essential portions of the ship had the bare minimum of armour, thus allowing the citadel to be even more protected. With these and other features resulting from the extensive lessons learned from the performance of battleships and battlecruisers in the Great War, the G3s would've been the most powerful warships in the world - but at the same time, they (along with ather ships being developed elsewhere, such as the American Lexingtons and the Japanese No. 13) would've sparked another arms race that none of the three great naval powers (UK, USA, Japan) really wanted or could afford, and so the Washington Treaty was signed to cap the capabilites of warships.


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#514
Jehuty

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I would love a FAL with 308. caliber rounds and an adjustable scope. 



#515
vometia

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I would love a FAL with 308. caliber rounds and an adjustable scope.


Nice rifle, but I was a terrible shot with it (albeit without the scope, but I doubt it would've seen any improvement given my, ahem, "marksmanship").  The only thing I didn't really like about it is that the cleverly folding cocking handle had a really sharp edge that would cut into my finger.  But on the plus side, it could also be used as a bottle-opener.



#516
The Invader

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By a "small number", you mean over a thousand? (at least for the EBR in general, not sure about the 1954 model specifically) ;)
 
Interestingly, the later models upped the main gun to 90mm, giving the EBR extremely impressive firepower for such a vehicle.

Yeah, I guess that's a decent amount. I will still call that a limited number though when you consider just how many tanks, jeeps the U.S. was producing.

#517
Chewin

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Stole this from tumblr. Just something that catched my eye.

 

Spoiler


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#518
Kaiser Arian XVII

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Question:

So if you have an old gun from WW2, the only two things to fire with it is to keep it in good shape and find bullets with proper caliber?

 

Stole this from tumblr. Just something that catched my eye.

 

Spoiler

 

Shinsengumi style!

 

--------

 

Ah, the Furious. The point at which it became clear that Fisher had well and truly jumped the shark. It's sister ships were bad enough, but that thing was beyond stupid. It's main guns (all two of them....) fired heavier shells that the Yamato did for god's sake.  :lol:

 

Anyway, that was a great post Aimi :)

 

As an aside, those guns made for the Furious ended up on these things:

 

WNBR_18-40_mk1_Lord_Clive_painting_pic.j

 

The Lord Clive class monitors, that were used to bombard the German coast in the latter days of WW1.

 

Looks like a Naval Artillery!


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#519
PhroXenGold

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Looks like a Naval Artillery!

 

Pretty much. In the RN at least, monitors were used primarily as coastal bombardment ships. They had a shallow draft and very large guns for their size - to the point where firing would at times leave them unstable - making them ill-suited for fleet combat. The 18" armed Lord Clives were that concept taken to its extreme. They were originally designed with smaller calibre guns (15" IIRC), but the RN had a couple of spare 18" guns lying around after Furious was repurposed as a carrier, and someone must've thought "why not?".

 

Of course, not all monitors were quite that scale. Here's a small monitor, intended for use as a river gunboat, built by the Soviets. The turrets might seem a little familiar...

 

p1124.jpg



#520
vometia

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Question:
So if you have an old gun from WW2, the only two things to fire with it is to keep it in good shape and find bullets with proper caliber?


Not just calibre, make sure they're rated as being the right pressure too: for example, don't try firing Tokarev rounds through a Mauser C96. They'll chamber quite happily but apparently the Mauser wasn't designed for that sort of loading.

And make sure the gun is properly cleaned afterwards: some military primers can be quite corrosive and will have a nasty effect on the barrel if it isn't wiped clean.

I have various WW2-era guns, but all are deactivated so it's fairly academic as far as I'm concerned...
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#521
Fidite Nemini

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The turrets might seem a little familiar...

 

p1124.jpg

 

Indeed. Looks like the Soviets had a couple too many spare T-34/76 turrets lying around, eh?


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#522
Cknarf

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Old guns should be kept clean just the same as modern ones. Especially when shooting old surplus ammo, because as stated above, it's corrosive and will wreck the bore if not cleaned properly.

 

Never ever ever try to shoot anything other than the cartridge designed for your gun. It's just not safe, man! In most cases, anyways.

 

Anyways, finding ammo for old guns depends on what you have.

 

7.62x54r for my Mosin Nagant is cheap and plentiful. There's a crapload of surplus leftover from the cold war, and commercially produced ammo is available as well.

 

7.7x55 for a Swiss K31 would be a little harder to find in large quantities.


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#523
Kaiser Arian XVII

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Understood.

I don't have any weapons (is Swiss knife&tools package a weapon?!), but some nomad tribes in my region have old guns belong to WW2 era that they still use. I had wondered how they can still use them.

 

A Czech rifle called Berno (The name is vz.24, produced during 1924-42):

 

Vz24.jpg



#524
Kaiser Arian XVII

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I suppose no one likes 19th century warships, because they're "unsexy"!

Here we have:

 

Red46gs.JPG

 

LeRedoutablePhoto.jpg

HMs warrior1860 Interior (under deck):

800px-HMs_warrior1860gundeck.JPG

 

Also the French Ironclad 'Vauban' is cool but I can't find any available picture of it, just a painting:

 

800px-Le_Vauban_%28cuirass%C3%A9%29.jpg


  • PhroXenGold et bEVEsthda aiment ceci

#525
mousestalker

mousestalker
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Understood.
I don't have any weapons (is Swiss knife&tools package a weapon?!), but some nomad tribes in my region have old guns belong to WW2 era that they still use. I had wondered how they can still use them.



Here in the US there is quite the thriving trade in pre-1899 firearms. This is due to a peculiarity in the laws and a lingering fondness for playing cowboy.

I do like the western look, but guns aren't needed. Just boots and a stetson...