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Weapons thread (Cold & Warm)


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#826
Serza

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Oooh!

 

The Nagant 1895 was one of the first suppressed pistols in the world, as far as I recall. I also seem to remember that one of the other was the Webley Mk.IV

 

Webley_Military_Mark_IV_1793.jpg

 

Of course, then there's the De Lisle Carbine, and the suppressed Sten variants, but... pistols!

 

 

Also, I never quite got into the 1895 revolver in Red Orchestra 2. I just preferred the TT33 (even though you could turn the German broomhandle into a PDW) because of it's fast reload, allowing me to utilize that rate of fire it gave me more aggressively. *shrug*

 

The 1911, though. I just love that. Does anyone know when somebody got the first idea to put a suppressor on that?



#827
PhroXenGold

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Well, lets have a quick quiz to see if we can liven things up:

 

Give me all the official names of this ship (preferably without abusing google etc. ;) ), and bonus points for her nickname:

TGP7347gd.jpg

 

She has a somewhat interesting history (albeit mainly pre-service), and if I've time tomorrow, I'll write up a bit on her, as well as a couple of other early non-entirely unrelated dreadnoughts.


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#828
Serza

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Huh. A Dreadnought, possibly somewhere around 1920's judging by the photography quality? My money's on the Royal Navy.



#829
bEVEsthda

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Looks like a battlecruiser to me. I'd say about 1915 maybe. But I don't recognize it. The aft turret triplet is probably a dead giveaway for those who are familiar with these ships, but I don't know.



#830
Serza

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You remind me of the fact that I own a book about warships but have never opened it... ashamed now.



#831
bEVEsthda

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Correct!

 

Hmm. Why did the thread die?

 

The thread never died. It just slept for awhile. I was always prepared to awaken it, if too long time passed.



#832
bEVEsthda

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Looks like a battlecruiser to me. I'd say about 1915 maybe. But I don't recognize it. The aft turret triplet is probably a dead giveaway for those who are familiar with these ships, but I don't know.

 

 

...Actually, it could maybe be an American battleship?



#833
bEVEsthda

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...Actually, it could maybe be an American battleship?

 

Nope! I was thinking maybe New York, but it's not.



#834
bEVEsthda

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Well, lets have a quick quiz to see if we can liven things up:

 

Give me all the official names of this ship (preferably without abusing google etc. ;) ), and bonus points for her nickname:

TGP7347gd.jpg

 

She has a somewhat interesting history (albeit mainly pre-service), and if I've time tomorrow, I'll write up a bit on her, as well as a couple of other early non-entirely unrelated dreadnoughts.

 

Heh! I suddenly recognized her.

I discussed ship names being inherited through ages in navies, a long time ago in a different forum. I provided this ship as an example.

It suddenly popped up in my head. I looked it up, and sure enough, it's her again,  ;)  the gin palace.

 

I can't give you all the official names of this ship without abusing Wiki etc. So I'll hold here, give someone else the chance.



#835
PhroXenGold

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Yeah, you've got her. I did put a slight clue with TGP being the start of the image name. To be fair, anyone knowing all the names off the top of their head would be quite impressive, so I'll take the nationalities if you can't do that ;)



#836
vometia

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I think the Nagant is the only revolver that can be suppressed (well, the only general purpose one, anyway). I don't think it's possible with the Webleys, but they don't need to be suppressed because they just look so damn cool.

#837
Fidite Nemini

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1895 Nagant revolver.

 

185.jpg_thumbnail0.jpg

 

I'm not intricately familiar with firearms, but wouldn't putting a suppressor on a revolver mean exactly squat for as long as the feeding mechnism isn't likewise sealed?

 

I mean, what good does it do when you put a suppressor on the muzzle of your weapon when the noise from the driving charge can more or less freely escape from the other end of the barrel? That revolver in the picture isn't giving me the impression of being sealed airtight and properly pressure resistant.

 

Disregard, the mechanic of this revolvers unique sealing system is in fact capable of such. Though in my defence, I absolutely did not expect that kind of technical sophistication from 1895, especially since suppressors themselves only became a thing LATER (unless my quick Google search just showed me filthy lies ...).



#838
PhroXenGold

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I was bored so I decided to write this up today, as bEVEsthda had correctly identified the image: HMS Agincourt (know to her crew as "The Gin Palace" as a play on her name and the fact that her interior was rather opulent for a warship), owner of, if not the most effective, arguably the most visually impressive broadside in battleship history, with no less than 14 12" guns, the most ever mounted a dreadnought - the effect of her firing was likened to a battlecruiser exploding. But to get onto why she's interesting beyond simply the number of guns, we'll go back a few years before her construction, to 1907.

 
After HMS Dreadnought had fundamentally altered battleship design, the other naval powers needed to get on the dreadnought bandwagon (albeit often with ideas that had been floated around before said ship). The Americans were the first to follow, with the South Carolina class, which featured a superfiring centreline main battery - allowing for a the same 8 gun broadside as the Dreadnought, while saving the cost and weight of the extra wing turret and giving greater firepower to bow and stern - but lacking the turbine driven speed of the British ship. The third nation to begin construction of a dreadnought battleship however was a little different. It's wasn't the usual suspects: Japan or Germany (though Nassau's quick construction meant they were the third to have one in service), or even nations like Italy or France. No, the third nation to place an order for a dreadnought was that famous naval powerhouse, Brazil.
 
This was considered pretty mad at the time too, and there were many who thought that Brazil was acting as a proxy for another nation - likely Germany or Japan - who would buy the ships when finished, but in fact the order for three ships placed with Armstong in March 1907 was a genuine purchase from the Brazilian government, with the aim of ensuring naval domination over their South American neighbors Argentina and Chile, both of whom had been involved in a naval arms Race with Brazil in the preceding years.
 
And the Brazilians didn't skimp on these ships. The first two (the third was to be delivered later) were to be the most powerful warships in the world, eclipsing both the Dreadnought and the South Carolina and incorporating many untested features. In particular, the ship carried 12 12" guns, which, with the wing turret layout gave her a 10 gun broadside, the heaviest in the world at the time.
 
 
WNBZL_12-45_PL_Minas_Gerais_pic.jpg
 
The two ships, Minas Geraes and Sao Paulo entered service with the Brazillian Navy in 1910, and had sparked a re-ignition of the South American naval race, with both Argentina and Chile placing orders for dreadnoughts of their own. Their service history was relatively unremarkable, with only a major mutiny over the conditions of sailors a few months into their career standing out. They were offered to the aid the British during WW1, but were poorly maintained and somewhat obsolete even though they were less than a decade old, so the offer was turned down. The Sao Paulo did fire her guns in anger during a rebellion in the early twenties. Eventually, despite some modernisation they were retired from service after the Second World War though the Sao Paulo did get one last hurrah when, while being towed to a British shipbreaker, she broke free in a storm and disappeared.
 
Spoiler
 
But I mentioned the original order was for three ships, so what of the third one? Well, it didn't take long for them to realised that, with the state of their economy, the Brazilians couldn't really afford another warship of that size, and they attempted to negotiate their way out of the contract with Armstrong, but failed, and work began on the Rio de Janeiro in 1910. As battleship technology had advanced significantly even in the three years since work on the previous two ships had begun, she was to be of a new design. In order to keep costs down, a proposed design weighing in at almost 40000 tons and armed with 14" guns was scaled down to a smaller ship with 12" guns, though, likely as much as a political statement to impress the people than anything else (well, she had to have more guns than her predecessors, right?), she was to have no less than 14 of those guns, albeit at the cost of armour. The Rio de Janiero was launched in January 1913.
 
TGP7347gd.jpg
 
However, keeping even this scaled down design was beyond the resources of the Brazilian economy, and short on cash, in late 1913, they sold her to the Ottoman Empire, who rechristened her Sultân Osmân-ı Evvel. Importantly, much of the money raised to purchase her came from private donations from Turkish citizens. By August 1914, her trials were complete, and the Ottoman crew had arrived in England to collect the Sultân Osmân-ı Evvel. Unfortunately for them, something else happened in that month which changed everything: WW1 broke out. The alignment of the Ottomans was uncertain, and the British, not willing to risk handing dreadnoughts over to potentially hostile powers, seized both this ship and another battleship destined for the Ottomans, Resadiye. This caused a huge outcry in Turkey, in no small part due to the feeling that the ship belonged to the people due to their investment, and combined with the Germans gifting the Ottomans a warship at the same time, was a major factor in driving the Empire into the camp of the Central Powers.
 
Now in the Royal Navy, the Rio de Janiero/Sultân Osmân-ı Evvel was given a third name, HMS Agincourt (the name was intended for the 6th member of the Queen Elizabeth class, but she had been cancelled upon the outbreak of war) and after some refitting and a shakedown, entered active service in September 1914. The Agincourt was a pleasant ship to serve on, as the Brazilian designers had placed crew comfort over many other considerations, with a fancy interior and large rooms (though many instructions for the ship's operation were in Portuguese), hence the nickname she acquired. The ship was perfectly capable of handling the huge broadside (although it did tend to cause much of the ships tableware and glasses to break), something many people feared could cause structural damage, and her engines actually overperformed, exceeding their design rating.
 
The Agincourt saw action at the Battle of Jutland, but failed to achieve any recorded hits, and despite an attempt to sell her back to Brazil, was scrapped in the early twenties. The Brazilians did try again to get a third dreadnought after selling the Rio de Janiero, but despite some preliminary work, WW1 brought and en to the plans, and their naval ambitions.
 
Hmm...that was probably more than I intended to write, but hey, I find these thing interesting to talk about :)

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#839
Serza

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I'm not intricately familiar with firearms, but wouldn't putting a suppressor on a revolver mean exactly squat for as long as the feeding mechnism isn't likewise sealed?

 

I mean, what good does it do when you put a suppressor on the muzzle of your weapon when the noise from the driving charge can more or less freely escape from the other end of the barrel? That revolver in the picture isn't giving me the impression of being sealed airtight and properly pressure resistant.

 

Disregard, the mechanic of this revolvers unique sealing system is in fact capable of such. Though in my defence, I absolutely did not expect that kind of technical sophistication from 1895, especially since suppressors themselves only became a thing LATER (unless my quick Google search just showed me filthy lies ...).

 

Suppressors didn't really happen until 1941-ish. You were right in that.



#840
bEVEsthda

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...And here, at last, is yet another true icon:

 

749249__republic-p-47-thunderbolt_p.jpg

 

The Republic P-47 Thunderbolt. The potentially finest piston engine fighter of WW II.

 

While the P-51 shot down the biggest half of Luftwaffe in '44, you probably could say that the P-47 (and the Brits, of course) had already done the main work, by killing off most of the more experienced German pilots.

 

There were some hickups in it's evolution. The power of its engine wasn't quite used at low and medium altitudes before introduction of the so called "paddle blade" propeller in late '43. (The 'paddle blade' actually wasn't just one type of propeller, but several competing new designs. They all dramatically improved combat performance though.)

A new fuselage, ready in '43, the 'J' subtype, was never introduced into production, despite putting in a new record, in a closed circuit, at full combat load, of 813 Km/h. The reasons were that Luftwaffe was already losing anyway and that it would cause delays in production. A pity, because the 'J'-fuselage was really interesting. Finally, the P-47 didn't have a wet wing, mysteriously enough. With the 'N' subtype it eventually got a wet wing, and the range then even surpassed the P-51D.

 

republic-p-47-thunderbolt-2.jpg

 

Neither did the Thunderbolt ever go all out in the engine department. Version of the R-2800 engine with water injection was tested at 3,600 hp for 200 hours without failure.

It wasn't needed, of course. And the jets were coming. And the P-47 was an expensive aircraft. And the P-51 was a cheap aircraft. But I can't help speculating about a 3,600 hp P-47 with the 'J' fuselage and 'N' wing.


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#841
Serza

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The Jug.

 

A fine aircraft. I considered either it, or the Hawker Typhoon several years back when I took part in a virtual reenactment of the Normandy landings (with a bit more... competitive.. edge to them - the Germans could indeed win the reenactment by driving us back into the sea!)

 

The Typhoon won - and I liked that, because the Jugs spent their entire tanks (plus drop tanks - that's FOUR hours over Normandy) in the skies, while we in the Typhoons spent our time as the ground attack aircraft - get in, destroy everything in sight, get out.

 

The stories I have from that operations...



#842
Giant ambush beetle

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Me shooting a friends short barreled rifle (16'' Mauser) in 8x57mm. Needless to say due its short barrel and potent cartridge (170 grains @ 780 meters / second)  it was spitting basketball-sized flames during daylight(!) and the incredible noise that the thing was making made it necessary to wear double hearing protection. I felt the concussion my stomach, like heavy bass on a music festival. But it was surprisingly accurate at 100 meters, could keep the shots in a palm sized group with iron sights easily. 
 
OumlIAumlOuml2_zpsumujl8v8.jpg


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#843
Kaiser Arian XVII

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I was bored so I decided to write this up today, as bEVEsthda had correctly identified the image: HMS Agincourt (know to her crew as "The Gin Palace" as a play on her name and the fact that her interior was rather opulent for a warship), owner of, if not the most effective, arguably the most visually impressive broadside in battleship history, with no less than 14 12" guns, the most ever mounted a dreadnought - the effect of her firing was likened to a battlecruiser exploding. But to get onto why she's interesting beyond simply the number of guns, we'll go back a few years before her construction, to 1907.

 
After HMS Dreadnought had fundamentally altered battleship design, the other naval powers needed to get on the dreadnought bandwagon (albeit often with ideas that had been floated around before said ship). The Americans were the first to follow, with the South Carolina class, which featured a superfiring centreline main battery - allowing for a the same 8 gun broadside as the Dreadnought, while saving the cost and weight of the extra wing turret and giving greater firepower to bow and stern - but lacking the turbine driven speed of the British ship. The third nation to begin construction of a dreadnought battleship however was a little different. It's wasn't the usual suspects: Japan or Germany (though Nassau's quick construction meant they were the third to have one in service), or even nations like Italy or France. No, the third nation to place an order for a dreadnought was that famous naval powerhouse, Brazil.
 
This was considered pretty mad at the time too, and there were many who thought that Brazil was acting as a proxy for another nation - likely Germany or Japan - who would buy the ships when finished, but in fact the order for three ships placed with Armstong in March 1907 was a genuine purchase from the Brazilian government, with the aim of ensuring naval domination over their South American neighbors Argentina and Chile, both of whom had been involved in a naval arms Race with Brazil in the preceding years.
 
And the Brazilians didn't skimp on these ships. The first two (the third was to be delivered later) were to be the most powerful warships in the world, eclipsing both the Dreadnought and the South Carolina and incorporating many untested features. In particular, the ship carried 12 12" guns, which, with the wing turret layout gave her a 10 gun broadside, the heaviest in the world at the time.
 
 
WNBZL_12-45_PL_Minas_Gerais_pic.jpg
 
The two ships, Minas Geraes and Sao Paulo entered service with the Brazillian Navy in 1910, and had sparked a re-ignition of the South American naval race, with both Argentina and Chile placing orders for dreadnoughts of their own. Their service history was relatively unremarkable, with only a major mutiny over the conditions of sailors a few months into their career standing out. They were offered to the aid the British during WW1, but were poorly maintained and somewhat obsolete even though they were less than a decade old, so the offer was turned down. The Sao Paulo did fire her guns in anger during a rebellion in the early twenties. Eventually, despite some modernisation they were retired from service after the Second World War though the Sao Paulo did get one last hurrah when, while being towed to a British shipbreaker, she broke free in a storm and disappeared.
 
Spoiler
 
But I mentioned the original order was for three ships, so what of the third one? Well, it didn't take long for them to realised that, with the state of their economy, the Brazilians couldn't really afford another warship of that size, and they attempted to negotiate their way out of the contract with Armstrong, but failed, and work began on the Rio de Janeiro in 1910. As battleship technology had advanced significantly even in the three years since work on the previous two ships had begun, she was to be of a new design. In order to keep costs down, a proposed design weighing in at almost 40000 tons and armed with 14" guns was scaled down to a smaller ship with 12" guns, though, likely as much as a political statement to impress the people than anything else (well, she had to have more guns than her predecessors, right?), she was to have no less than 14 of those guns, albeit at the cost of armour. The Rio de Janiero was launched in January 1913.
 
TGP7347gd.jpg
 
However, keeping even this scaled down design was beyond the resources of the Brazilian economy, and short on cash, in late 1913, they sold her to the Ottoman Empire, who rechristened her Sultân Osmân-ı Evvel. Importantly, much of the money raised to purchase her came from private donations from Turkish citizens. By August 1914, her trials were complete, and the Ottoman crew had arrived in England to collect the Sultân Osmân-ı Evvel. Unfortunately for them, something else happened in that month which changed everything: WW1 broke out. The alignment of the Ottomans was uncertain, and the British, not willing to risk handing dreadnoughts over to potentially hostile powers, seized both this ship and another battleship destined for the Ottomans, Resadiye. This caused a huge outcry in Turkey, in no small part due to the feeling that the ship belonged to the people due to their investment, and combined with the Germans gifting the Ottomans a warship at the same time, was a major factor in driving the Empire into the camp of the Central Powers.
 
Now in the Royal Navy, the Rio de Janiero/Sultân Osmân-ı Evvel was given a third name, HMS Agincourt (the name was intended for the 6th member of the Queen Elizabeth class, but she had been cancelled upon the outbreak of war) and after some refitting and a shakedown, entered active service in September 1914. The Agincourt was a pleasant ship to serve on, as the Brazilian designers had placed crew comfort over many other considerations, with a fancy interior and large rooms (though many instructions for the ship's operation were in Portuguese), hence the nickname she acquired. The ship was perfectly capable of handling the huge broadside (although it did tend to cause much of the ships tableware and glasses to break), something many people feared could cause structural damage, and her engines actually overperformed, exceeding their design rating.
 
The Agincourt saw action at the Battle of Jutland, but failed to achieve any recorded hits, and despite an attempt to sell her back to Brazil, was scrapped in the early twenties. The Brazilians did try again to get a third dreadnought after selling the Rio de Janiero, but despite some preliminary work, WW1 brought and en to the plans, and their naval ambitions.
 
Hmm...that was probably more than I intended to write, but hey, I find these thing interesting to talk about :)

 

 

Too bad we don't have glorious Battleships anymore. Just Destroyers, high tech Cruisers and possibly Dreadnaughts.

 

I dislike the carriers... I really like to see how they can stand 10 torpedo attacks at the same time fired from submarines!



#844
Commander Rpg

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The kamikaze were very reliable weapons, the first true example of intelligent bombing.



#845
bEVEsthda

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The kamikaze were very reliable weapons, the first true example of intelligent bombing.

 

- Oh, I wouldn't agree on that.

 

There are all kinds of things seriously wrong with the whole Kamikaze concept, as a society's method of warfare. Never mind that. If we just focus on some kind of attempt to measure efficiency and "reliability", things don't look impressive at all.

 

Some 4,000 Japanese kamikaze pilots are reckoned to have sacrificed their lives and aircraft in making an attack on an allied ship.

So what do they have to show for it?

A couple of Liberty ships sunk.

A couple of minesweepers sunk.

A handful of destroyers.

Three Casablanca class carriers, the US Navy's smallest aircraft carrier; they had 50 of them. (The entire Casablanca class was used by the navy as fleet carriers, as elements of some combat 'task force', but the design had its origins in so called 'Escort Carriers', and was designated as such, "CVE".)

...And some other small ships.

 

If the US military were to employ some missile that cost a tenth of a pilot (never mind the aircraft), and that missile had that sort of success rate, there would be a media wide scandal and Congressional hearings.


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#846
Kaiser Arian XVII

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What a waste. If Japan could produce submarines they would be more successful.

 

But the weak side of Japan's warmachine was her Tanks and also not good enough Navy.



#847
PhroXenGold

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What a waste. If Japan could produce submarines they would be more successful.

 

But the weak side of Japan's warmachine was her Tanks and also not good enough Navy.

 

Nah, the weak side of Japan's warmachine were her industrial and resource bases. No matter what she did, she could never compete with the US. The quality of your troops and machinery is pretty much irrelevant when you are being outproduced at that kind of rate.


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#848
Serza

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I believe it was Admiral Yamamoto who told the Emperor they could wage successful war with the US for six, MAYBE twelve months. If the war took any longer, they would stand no chance.

 

Also, wasn't it him who said that he's "afraid they just woke a sleeping giant" at Pearl Harbor?

 

Turns out, the man was entirely correct. For roughly a year, the Japanese held steadfast. Then the US began to catch up to them, and, well...

 

Midway, Guadalcanal, The Coral Sea... And the tide has turned.


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#849
aka.700

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There are many of them but one of them is Gilgamesh from Devil May Cry 4.
Untitled-26.jpg
Dante using it
demoGGM0002-2117_bmp_jpgcopy.jpg
c1-4-0012-00000-bmp-jpgcopy.jpg

#850
bEVEsthda

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Here's a ship for ya.

 

HMS_Rodney_after_refitting_at_Liverpool.

 

It's the nemesis of Bismarck, HMS Rodney.

Of course, Rodney on her own would never have caught up with Bismarck. But an airplane launched torpedo in the rudders sent Bismarck straight into Rodney's jaws.


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