78 réponses à ce sujet

[Lenimph]

Ok this is what I don't get if the vallaslin are slave markers like Solas says... then why did the sentinels at the temple of Mythal have them?  

 

 

[Saricc]

Because they were basically slaves to Mythal. 

[Lenimph]

Because they were basically slaves to Mythal. 

Then wouldn't that still mean that vallaslin do show respect to the elven gods... 

[Lenimph]

Basically Solas didn't want to see another god's name written on his girls face from what I can tell... 

[BronzTrooper]

Well, tbh, Solas' definition of slavery is probably different from what we'd consider slavery.  He despises the Qun, saying that the Qunari are mindless and not allowed to think for themselves.  Solas probably considers being in the servitude of one of the Creators like the Sentinels are as being slavery, hence why he really doesn't like it if you absorb the knowledge from the Well of Sorrows.

 

The way I see it, the slavery that existed during the time of Arlathan wasn't the Tevinter kind of slavery, but actually a religious servitude that could be misconstrued as slavery from a distance.  This would explain why the Sentinels in the Temple of Mythal wear vallaslin.  As for Solas... well, we know he has omitted certain truths from us before, so it wouldn't be surprising if, considering his nature as the God of Rebellion, his views on the servitude of the ancient elves was a bit... colored by his views.

[Roamingmachine]

Because like Gamer above me says, the slavery of Solas talks about isn't quite the one we think when we hear the word.  Those wearing the vallaslin in Arlathan seem to have been bound to the gods, body and soul, and served as their eyes, ears and hands. We do not know whether the ones marked thusly were willing or not, but certainly their will afterwards was not entirely their own, thus to Solas calls them slave marks.

[Vilegrim]

Solas may haave straight up lied about it

[TeraBat]

Basically Solas didn't want to see another god's name written on his girls face from what I can tell... 

 

I suspect that has a lot to do with it. My first Dalish Inquisitor (who was banging Blackwall on the regular), Solas said not a peep about my tattoos.... 

[Walrider]

The nobles of the ancient elves branded their slaves with the marking of their gods to honor them.

 

Some slaves may've taken it as a matter of pride, but they were still slave markings.

[Mr.House]

Well, tbh, Solas' definition of slavery is probably different from what we'd consider slavery.  He despises the Qun, saying that the Qunari are mindless and not allowed to think for themselves.  Solas probably considers being in the servitude of one of the Creators like the Sentinels are as being slavery, hence why he really doesn't like it if you absorb the knowledge from the Well of Sorrows.

 

The way I see it, the slavery that existed during the time of Arlathan wasn't the Tevinter kind of slavery, but actually a religious servitude that could be misconstrued as slavery from a distance.  This would explain why the Sentinels in the Temple of Mythal wear vallaslin.  As for Solas... well, we know he has omitted certain truths from us before, so it wouldn't be surprising if, considering his nature as the God of Rebellion, his views on the servitude of the ancient elves was a bit... colored by his views.

Indeed.  Elven "slavery" is not like modern Thedas slavery from what I can tell. For example, Morrigan drank from the well with her own free will but she is now a slave of Mythal forever, despite making the choice to do that. That's how I took it.

[Mr.House]

Then wouldn't that still mean that vallaslin do show respect to the elven gods... 

They do, but that does not get rid of the other meaning behind it, which is why Solas gives the option to an elven Inquisitor who romanced him. Also note that by doing that, Coryshite WILL not call you a slave during the battle.

[Roamingmachine]

Solas may haave straight up lied about it

 

Straight-up lies are not his style. He prefers to give a...version of the truth.

[Roamingmachine]

The nobles of the ancient elves branded their slaves with the marking of their gods to honor them.

 

Some slaves may've taken it as a matter of pride, but they were still slave markings.

 

Source?

[Mr.House]

Solas may haave straight up lied about it

Solas never lies straight out. If he lies, he words it in a way that is very questionable, so yeah I highly doubt he is lying about this as it would not fit his style of speech at all.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Because like Gamer above me says, the slavery of Solas talks about isn't quite the one we think when we hear the word.  Those wearing the vallaslin in Arlathan seem to have been bound to the gods, body and soul, and served as their eyes, ears and hands. We do not know whether the ones marked thusly were willing or not, but certainly their will afterwards was not entirely their own, thus to Solas calls them slave marks.

That...actually sounds worse than the kind of slavery we think of when hearing the term. At least in that kind of slavery, your soul is still your own. The ancient elves wouldn't even get that much. 

[BronzTrooper]

Source?

 

I think Walrider means what Solas says if you romanced him.  The thing is, iirc, Solas says that it was the Creator that the nobles served/worshipped, which, again, implies that it was more of a religious servitude than Tevinter-style forced labor.

 

That...actually sounds worse than the kind of slavery we think of when hearing the term. At least in that kind of slavery, your soul is still your own. The ancient elves wouldn't even get that much. 

 

That's the thing though, isn't it?  Is it really their own soul if they themselves are owned in every meaning of the word?  Really, if you go by what happens to the Inquisitor if they absorb the knowledge from the Well, their soul is still technically their own, it's just that Mythal/Flemeth has a measure of control over them.  The Sentinels were able to leave after you get to the Well, so they were still in control of themselves.  Hell, you could even convince Abelas to help the elves recover the lore they lost.

 

Yeah, it does sound like it's worse, but considering how in Tevinter, slaves are simply property instead of servants like the Sentinels, their fate is laid at the hands of their master every single day.  The Sentinels, while confined to the Temple, still held their fates in their own hands to an extent.  Their fate didn't rely on the whim of some Tevinter mage.

[Walrider]

Source?

 

As Gamer072196 said, it's in the Solas romance where he reveals the tattoos origins to the Inquisitor. Considering who he is, it can mutually explain why he doesn't have any tattoos himself.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

That's the thing though, isn't it?  Is it really their own soul if they themselves are owned in every meaning of the word?  Really, if you go by what happens to the Inquisitor if they absorb the knowledge from the Well, their soul is still technically their own, it's just that Mythal/Flemeth has a measure of control over them.  The Sentinels were able to leave after you get to the Well, so they were still in control of themselves.  Hell, you could even convince Abelas to help the elves recover the lore they lost.

 

Yeah, it does sound like it's worse, but considering how in Tevinter, slaves are simply property instead of servants like the Sentinels, their fate is laid at the hands of their master every single day.  The Sentinels, while confined to the Temple, still held their fates in their own hands to an extent.  Their fate didn't rely on the whim of some Tevinter mage.

Except they aren't owned in every sense of the word. In Tevinter, the slave still retains their mind and soul, or at least soul if they are a thrall from blood magic. In the Qun, even the mindless workers still have their souls as untouched since the Qun doesn't like dealing in magic stuff. But with the ancient elves, sure it seems they are in control but at a moment's notice their master can assume control of them. The Sentinels couldn't leave the temple because the well demanded they stay, and only after you or Morrigan who agrees with you have drinken the well do they do other things, so they are following yours or Morrigan's will. Their fates were never in their own hands. Solas expands on that in the romance. 

[BronzTrooper]

As Gamer072196 said, it's in the Solas romance where he reveals the tattoos origins to the Inquisitor. Considering who he is, it can mutually explain why he doesn't have any tattoos himself.

 

Well, we don't know much about Solas/Fen'Harel in the first place, so for all we know, he could've hopped into the body of a city elf apostate after waking in order to blend in a bit better.  We know Mythal joined with Flemeth, though we don't know if this was a Justice/Anders-style joining (besides the undesirable side-effects, obviously), or something else entirely.

 

For all we know, Solas/Fen'Harel's form that we see in-game isn't his true form to begin with.  We know Flemeth/Mythal can body-hop, so who's to say Solas/Fen'Harel can't?

[Serza]

And, yet again, as was already said in this thread...

 

DO WE ACTUALLY KNOW ANY DETAILS ABOUT ARLATHAN'S TAKE ON SLAVERY?

 

In caps to emphasize...

 

We should wait for more information to determine whether Elvhenan was no better than Tevinter.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Well, we don't know much about Solas/Fen'Harel in the first place, so for all we know, he could've hopped into the body of a city elf apostate after waking in order to blend in a bit better.  We know Mythal joined with Flemeth, though we don't know if this was a Justice/Anders-style joining (besides the undesirable side-effects, obviously), or something else entirely.

 

For all we know, Solas/Fen'Harel's form that we see in-game isn't his true form to begin with.  We know Flemeth/Mythal can body-hop, so who's to say Solas/Fen'Harel can't?

I think if any of the Elven Pantheon could body hop, it would be the trickster Fen'Harel. If they were just powerful elves, perhaps that is how they avoided the endless dream and thus appeared godlike to the others. 

[Walrider]

Well, we don't know much about Solas/Fen'Harel in the first place, so for all we know, he could've hopped into the body of a city elf apostate after waking in order to blend in a bit better.  We know Mythal joined with Flemeth, though we don't know if this was a Justice/Anders-style joining (besides the undesirable side-effects, obviously), or something else entirely.

 

For all we know, Solas/Fen'Harel's form that we see in-game isn't his true form to begin with.  We know Flemeth/Mythal can body-hop, so who's to say Solas/Fen'Harel can't?

 

Fair enough. I suppose it's just gut feeling that Solas/Fen'Harel hasn't body-hopped. Mythal, in what was revealed by Abelas, was actively murdered at one point, and needed a new host. From what Solas said, he just slumbered for a long stretch of time, in contrast to Mythal.

 

'Course, since he's a trickster, he could've meant that he spent a long time looking for a body to take, but I don't think that's likely. And then there's Abelas's comment to Solas of, "Elves like you?" when Solas encourages him to seek out other places/people, and to leave the Well of Sorrows.

 

After the epilogue, the comment seemed rather suspicious.

 

Ancient elves were immortal, after all. If Fen'Harel didn't have a reason to body-hop, why would he? It's not like there'd be anyone around to recognize him. And those few who could likely wouldn't point out who he actually is anyway, if only because they're ancient secrets in of themselves.

 

But, again, just gut feeling. There's nowhere near enough information for me to be entirely steadfast in this.

[ctd757]

You can convince Abelas to help the elves? Maybe I missed that option. To me I think he said he will go where the humans aren't

[Walrider]

You can convince Abelas to help the elves? Maybe I missed that option. To me I think he said he will go where the humans aren't

 

You can't, I don't think. I just remember Solas telling Abelas that there are other elves like them.

[Roamingmachine]

The nobles of the ancient elves branded their slaves with the marking of their gods to honor them.

 

 

As Gamer072196 said, it's in the Solas romance where he reveals the tattoos origins to the Inquisitor. Considering who he is, it can mutually explain why he doesn't have any tattoos himself.

 

 

I meant the bit above. So far as we know there were no elven nobles who owned slaves and Solas doesn't say a peep on the subject beyond vaguely stating that they were slave markings.He doesn't give any context to it. What we have seen of the ancients, the ones marked with the vallaslin belonged to the gods, marks to show who's looking through their eyes so to speak.

 

As for why Solas doesn't have it's quite simple. He's a god. More spesificly a god of rebellion. Anything that infringes on free will would be anathema to him.