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Was anyone else bothered by the nobles' treatment of Cullen at the ball?


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#251
Colonelkillabee

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A lifetime of heavily gendered socialization can affect people on some very deep levels, even those of us who were always misfits and knew that we aren't, can't be and don't want to be what gender (or other) stereotypes tell us we must be.

 

Look, I'm not saying everyone is equally affected by every instance of unwanted sexual advances (or whatever). Or that we should be. Or that there's no big difference in ways or degrees. Or that most men feel at risk like most women do. I just loathe this notion that anyone -- be it a man, a woman or someone between or outside -- should ever feel they have to "be able to take it" or "be grateful for it" or face ridicule or worse. That attitude doesn't help anyone except the harassers. I wouldn't want things to get as ugly for men as they often are for women before a guy can maybe, possibly, if he's lucky, be "allowed" to feel and express discomfort.

I get it, I really do. Not everyone can be the model that society puts up, and everyone struggles with that on some level. I'm certainly not the most manliest man in existence. I'm not afraid to show my emotions, sad, angry, whichever. I write poetry and love stories. I'm painfully aware of my flaws and the unfair expectations put on me simply because I'm a man, and not just a man but a burly one. I'm six foot four. People don't tend to sympathize with me very much because they just assume I can take anything.

 

However, I can't let things like that get to me. None of us can. Society isn't going to change for us, as society is modeled around what we have coded in our biology, and I don't think someone telling me to suck it up enables my harassers. I'm biracial and have been harassed throughout my childhood. The best advice I was ever given was to suck it up, ignore it, don't let it get to me. So I didn't, and I did get over it, and so did the people trying to screw with me. I know not everyone is equipped to handle certain situations, but at the end of the day, other people aren't always going to be around, and the only person you'll have left to rely on is you. I don't think this enables the harassers, I think the opposite.

 

This attitude is the exact reason why my little brother was so lame that he got pushed around by a six year old when he was 8, and instead of doing something about it, he waited and told the teacher instead. My mother coddled him so bad due to his father dying, that he couldn't tie his shoes until I finally sat his ass down and forced him to sit there until he learned.... at 11 years old. This attitude is doing much more harm than good. People cannot rely on others, they must learn to do something for themselves, or they will be pathetic human beings who can't help but let others turn them into victims. This is already hurting young females, and now they're doing it to young males as well. It's killing masculinity.


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#252
Celtic Latino

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Only thing that bothered me was not getting to shoo them, namely if you're in a romance with him.

#253
Lord_Caledore

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A lifetime of heavily gendered socialization can affect people on some very deep levels, even those of us who were always misfits and knew that we aren't, can't be and don't want to be what gender (or other) stereotypes tell us we must be.

 

Look, I'm not saying everyone is equally affected by every instance of unwanted sexual advances (or whatever). Or that we should be. Or that there's no big difference in ways or degrees. Or that most men feel at risk like most women do. I just loathe this notion that anyone -- be it a man, a woman or someone between or outside -- should ever feel they have to "be able to take it" or "be grateful for it" or face ridicule or worse. That attitude doesn't help anyone except the harassers. I wouldn't want things to get as ugly for men as they often are for women before a guy can maybe, possibly, if he's lucky, be "allowed" to feel and express discomfort.

 

 

Yea, it's that attitude that leads to sexual harassment against men not being taken seriously or not reported in the first place. I take issue with the idea that most men don't mind unwanted advances, anyway - some would never admit it due to those gender norms, sure. But I know plenty of men who would not be ok with attention like Cullen got.

 

Being a guy, I would be seriously uncomfortable if someone I didn't know did to me what they did to Cullen. Some of my favorite things in life are football, beer, and searing red meat over an open flame, so, y'know, I fit a lot of the stereotypes of a typical guy. Every person fits some stereotypes and defies others, so I think it's disingenous to claim most men don't mind unwanted attention from women.

As I mentioned, I didn't mind this in game because I saw it as Orlesians being Orlesians. It's a decadent, selfish society, and exploits any weakness they see in others. But that doesn't invalidate the fact that some people felt uncomfortable about it. The OP never asked for it to be removed from the game, just shared an opinion.


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#254
Squeeze the Fish

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I don't think anyone's saying sexual harrassment is no big deal. I think the disagreement stems from whether this particular situation IS sexual harrassment in the first place.

Obviously there are two camps here, and I think to a certain degree, what someone thinks is harrassment is a personal decision- one that we're trying to project on another character.

But guys, just because someone thinks this is harrassment doesn't mean they're so sensitive they're out of touch with reality or have a weak character or whatever...

And just because someone doesn't think it's harrassment, doesn't mean they don't believe men can be victims of harrassment, or it's something that should not be taken seriously.

Let's stop with the blanket, inflammatory statements, yeah?
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#255
Guest_DemonDragon000_*

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I felt it was really annoying during my Cullen Romance run.  There's zero options to step in and say he's with me?  WTF?  

yeah that is where it annoys me.  Where is my option to step in and tell them to BACK THE **** OFF MY MAN!



#256
Lord_Caledore

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I don't think anyone's saying sexual harrassment is no big deal. I think the disagreement stems from whether this particular situation IS sexual harrassment in the first place.

Obviously there are two camps here, and I think to a certain degree, what someone thinks is harrassment is a personal decision- one that we're trying to project on another character.

But guys, just because someone thinks this is harrassment doesn't mean they're so sensitive they're out of touch with reality or have a weak character or whatever...

And just because someone doesn't think it's harrassment, doesn't mean they don't believe men can be victims of harrassment, or it's something that should not be taken seriously.

Let's stop with the blanket, inflammatory statements, yeah?

For sure. What qualifies as harassment is very personal, and everyone has a different line that can be crossed. As long as others aren't telling each other that one's personal limits are invalid, it's a reasonable discussion.

The real question is what do people think what Cullen would feel. I think in general he's entirely uncomfortable with the politics of the court, and this was a good example of it. I don't think he had much idea how to react because it's so foreign to him.

 

I also think the nobles could sense this and were deliberately exploiting it - not sure if it was trying to gain an advantage, or just out of personal amusement. Many Orlesians seem to get sick pleasure out of manipulating others, so I wouldn't be surprised by the latter.



#257
Colonelkillabee

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Cullen did exactly what he should have in that situation. Endured it. He is a templar battling addiction, and trying to help save the world. He's a military man, a general. He endured Demons and Maleficar, and people think he can't handle some flirting? After the party was done, it never came up again. People need to give the guy at least a LITTLE credit. I'm not even really a fan of Cullen and I think I have more faith in him then some of you do.


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#258
Rannik

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I said the same thing when I got there and a friend mentioned it. Then suddenly the porn just found me. And once you find it, it never leaves, lol. Pandora's Box.

 

Bing is pretty cool photo / video search engine for some things.

 

You're welcome.



#259
Colonelkillabee

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LOL Bing? Haha, na if I wanted to look up porn, I'd just use google like the rest of the civilized world.



#260
Rannik

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You'd be surprised in this case, even Google fanboys can't deny our lord and saviour.

 

Thank you based Microsoft.



#261
Arlee

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And now this thread is apparently about porn... I have to say in a weird way I am impressed.


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#262
Boomshakalakalakaboom

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And now this thread is apparently about porn... I have to say in a weird way I am impressed.

 

That is the magic of the BSN.  :lol:



#263
Colonelkillabee

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You'd be surprised in this case, even Google fanboys can't deny our lord and saviour.

 

Thank you based Microsoft.

I'll take your word for it ;)



#264
Steve236

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I blame society's attitude of "Everyone's a victim." And if you encourage someone not to be a victim, you're victim blaming or enabling the offender. Lol.

 

No wonder my brother's generation is so helpless. The kids nowadays are sooo reliant on their parents and teachers, man. Public schools are poison.

When i have kids im gonna teach the the same lesson my father taught me. Life is full of $hit, your gonna be in $hitty situation,and your gonna meet $hitty people. And sad truth is the world wont give a damn who you are and wont give you a glance to help you, your gonna have to own up to yourself the make it through life.

 

  I resented his attitude a bit when i was young but now im grateful. I feel somewhat bad for all the kids whos parents tell them their child are special snowflakes and the world is their hugbox. Cause my kids are gonna kick their @ss.


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#265
Yinello

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I don't think anyone's saying sexual harrassment is no big deal. I think the disagreement stems from whether this particular situation IS sexual harrassment in the first place.

Obviously there are two camps here, and I think to a certain degree, what someone thinks is harrassment is a personal decision- one that we're trying to project on another character.

But guys, just because someone thinks this is harrassment doesn't mean they're so sensitive they're out of touch with reality or have a weak character or whatever...

And just because someone doesn't think it's harrassment, doesn't mean they don't believe men can be victims of harrassment, or it's something that should not be taken seriously.

Let's stop with the blanket, inflammatory statements, yeah?

 

But but my black and white worldview!


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#266
Chari

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Yes

I guess it's kinda a parody of his... massive fandom 

And it makes it all every creepier 


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#267
Kitsune

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This thread is still alive? Wonder of wonders.



#268
EmissaryofLies

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Yes

I guess it's kinda a parody of his... massive fandom 

And it makes it all every creepier 

 

This thread reminds me of dogs failing the mirror test.



#269
Precursor Meta

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Whoa, seems like you took it serious. I didn't think to much of it. I though it was funny to see Cullen in that situation.

#270
suntiger745

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The masquerade at Halam' shiral is a war zone just as much as Exalted Plains was, they just use different weapons.
The equivalent of Cullen at the masquerade would be imagining Josephine being sent out to face a platoon of Darkspawn armed with a sword and ill-fitting armor.
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#271
Killdren88

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I'm more disappointed by the fact no Venatori agents tried to assassinate him. With the Nobles being so grabby they could have easily poisoned his drink or something.

#272
Incantrix

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I think this might be my first taste of social justice warrior'ism. I thought it was a myth perpetuated by misogynist. :o



#273
crimzontearz

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The thing that KINDA bothers me is that it's ok to have a gay man/woman approach a straight man/woman and dismiss a flat "I am not gay" because....you know....I know I can turn you gay/my gaydar says you are at least curious and you dig me but you don't know it/I am going to ignore it because I am your better......but god only knows the hell that would have been raised if it had been the opposite.
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#274
Neria Rose

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In response to the title question, not at all. I found it an amusing tease of the Cullen fangirls/boys and nothing more.



#275
frylock23

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Uncomfortable situation? Yes, but it's also temporary. I was in a similar situation once - forced to spend one day working with a guy who was definitely hitting on me and harassing me despite having been told flat out I was married. I did what Cullen did; I sucked it up knowing the situation was temporary and all I had to do was put up with it for a few more hours out of one day. Then I went home, told my husband and watched the outrage burn. It made it all worthwhile.

 

Now if that was my normal working environment, I would have done something, but you pick your battles. What would have been the point of creating a fuss? Cullen is a professional there to find an assassin not create problems because an overly aggressive noble pinched his butt.