376 réponses à ce sujet

[Lee80]

I felt it was really annoying during my Cullen Romance run.  There's zero options to step in and say he's with me?  WTF?  

[Solbranthius]

It's a fairly dark and gritty setting, so this sort of thing comes with the territory. The game is rated 'mature' for a reason, after all - and if that sort of thing isn't your cup of tea, fair enough! You might want to invest in a different genre, however.

[Arlee]

I admit it squicks me out that a situation that is clearly sexual harassment feels like it's meant to be played for laughs and treated as such by many players, too. The gender of the target of this shitty behavior is meaningless -- it's never funny or harmless or okay. Doesn't matter a whit if it's the biggest, burliest qunari warrior guy or the smallest, most pathetically weak elven girl. Yes, the risk of being physically overpowered is not the same, but Cullen's situation clearly shows that blatant physical violence doesn't even play into it much of the time. Social and peer pressure, being outnumbered, being in a situation you can't leave, being targeted by people with more "social clout" or "status", thinking you can't afford to "make waves" or "cause drama" because that will get you smeared as the problem instead of the people targetting you ... They ignore his discomfort, his deflections, his refusals in a way that just made my insides clench.

 

And when one of them grabs his ass? That's not even harassment anymore, that's assault. What the flaming hell.

 

We were at a Ball of devious, arrogant, scheming nobles and their behavior surprises you? It was right in line with how people in power try to knock people who are potential threats off balance without being obvious about it. Yes it was bad behavior... but it also totally fit the situation and was rather realistic.

[Dean_the_Young]

Just because something is questionable in the real world it doesn't mean it can't be explored in a fictional setting. Do we really need to stifle creativity and humour to appease a vocal minority who read far too deeply into anything and everything in their perpetual quest to get offended on behalf of others?

 

Has anyone said that it should be banned, unexplored, or stifled?

 

There's a difference between 'this makes me uncomfortable' and 'things that make me uncomfortable should be banned.' Especially when the thing that makes someone uncomfortable (sexual harassment and assault) isn't 'explored' or a narrative theme as it is used for laughs. Which goes from 'creative freedom' to 'creepy crass,' which is all the OP was raising. They were uncomfortable, trying to express it, and wondering if they were alone in that feeling. Unless you know this person personally, that hardly strikes me as 'their perpetual quest to get offended on behalf of others.'

 

Looking at the previous times sexual harassment and assault were used in Dragon Age, it has pretty consistently always a Bad Thing, treated seriously, whether it was actually carried out or not. Here, not so much- it isn't even raised as controversial, and the obvious distinguishing factor for that is because it happens targeting a male. Unless someone else could remind me of a case in which the sexual harassment of a woman in Dragon Age was played for laughs at the expense of the target (rather than, say, the expense of Ohgren)...

 

Well, considering contemporary cultural double standards, I suspect it wouldn't have been treated so lightly if it were, say, Jospehine being harassed and gropped and afraid to say anything for fear of causing a scene. We'd probably have some ravings for blood and vengeance and the right/expectation of castrating the offending member (of the ball).

[panichord]

I'm fairly certain that Cullen could and would handle it himself if it crossed into sexual harassment territory.

Spoiler

He sure gives that impression and backing when his kiss with the Inquisitor is interrupted

 

I felt it was more a display of his discomfort and uncertainty in noble/stupidly political sitautions. Kinda like a fish out of water. I don't think there was some punchline to giggle at sexual harassment there....but maybe if I squint?

[Jayce]

Wasn't massively keen on this either. There's truth to the idea that men don't feel the same sense of vulnerability that women do in these situations, but that doesn't make it ok.

Harmless flirting is great. It stops being harmless flirting when the other person is not playing along and is making it clear they want you to stop.

If Josephine had got that treatment and been as uncomfortable as Cullen half this forum would have been up in arms.

[Korva]

Just because something is questionable in the real world it doesn't mean it can't be explored in a fictional setting. Do we really need to stifle creativity and humour to appease a vocal minority who read far too deeply into anything and everything in their perpetual quest to get offended on behalf of others?

 

Really, how many times do I have to say it?

 

I. Do. Not. Object. To. This. Being. In. The. Game.

 

If anyone is "reading far too deeply", it's you because nothing you wrote there has anything to do with what I said.

 

 

Wasn't massively keen on this either. There's truth to the idea that men don't feel the same sense of vulnerability that women do in these situations, but that doesn't make it ok.

 

Exactly. It's a matter of respect, regardless of gender or who presents the bigger potential physical threat to whom. There's also a big difference between, say, slamming a mall door shut on a little old lady limping along with a cane in one hand and a heavy grocery bag in another, and slamming the same door shut on a healthy, strapping young man with both hands free. That doesn't mean doing the latter is okay. Anyone who does it is still an *******.

[Willowhugger]

Isn't there an option for the Inquisitor to say, "Need any help?"

I actually thought the situation wasn't played for laughs.

 

It's clearly making Cullen uncomfortable being the center of attention and it's not funny ha-ha or at least to me.

 

It's cute that he's got a fan following but his reaction is to be anything but flattered.

 

Which is not how it's usually played.

 

Exasperation would make it funny.

Here, it's like, "I don't like this at all."

[Willowhugger]

Really, how many times do I have to say it?

 

I. Do. Not. Object. To. This. Being. In. The. Game.

 

If anyone is "reading far too deeply", it's you because nothing you wrote there has anything to do with what I said.

 

It's okay, I get what you're saying.

So do a lot of posters.

[Solbranthius]

Really, how many times do I have to say it?

 

I. Do. Not. Object. To. This. Being. In. The. Game.

 

If anyone is "reading far too deeply", it's you because nothing you wrote there has anything to do with what I said.

 

Yet you made a thread about it. I'm pretty sure most people will agree that sexual harassment isn't great, but at the end of the day it's a fictional character in a fictional setting. We can feel sympathy for the plight of a particular character but I do think some people are a little too hasty when it comes to dragging real world morality into the equation. 

 

If you're simply venting, fair enough though!

[Dean_the_Young]

Yet you made a thread about it.

 

 

'It' being her discomfort- not some movement to ban or censor or unduly take offense.

 

I'm pretty sure most people will agree that sexual harassment isn't great, but at the end of the day it's a fictional character in a fictional setting. We can feel sympathy for the plight of a particular character but I do think some people are a little too hasty when it comes to dragging real world morality into the equation.

 

What about the OP was 'too hasty'?

 

 

If you're simply venting, fair enough though!

 

 

I am sure (s)he is grateful for you approval.

[Korva]

I laughed it off during my first play through, but after hearing what Cole says if he's in the party ("Cullen is afraid. They're hunting him, following fear. He shouldn't be here.")...yeah, I feel kind of guilty. 

 

That's good to know. It shows that the surface impression of the writers kind of making light of it is not the only thing going on there, and that is a relief, so thank you for that quote. I knew I should have brought my spirit buddy, but I thought that whole mess would strain him more than anyone else.

 

 

Yet you made a thread about it.

 

On a discussion forum about this game? Perish the thought.

 

I'm pretty sure most people will agree that sexual harassment isn't great, but at the end of the day it's a fictional character in a fictional setting. We can feel sympathy for the plight of a particular character

 

And that was exactly my point in making this thread: do people feel sympathy for Cullen in this situation, or is it played too much for "funsies"?

[Addai]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say the Cole quote has nothing to do with flirtatious Orlesians, but rather the templars, his lyrium addiction and the threat of red lyrium corruption. At least, I hope Cullen is not such a delicate flower that he needs to send the court to sensitivity training or else he'll bust apart.

[Rannik]

This **** again?

[CENIC]

Horny people lack self-control/awareness (not that this is an excuse)
Many people lack the self-confidence to protect themselves (and this is rarely addressed)

I did feel bad for Cullen. When you're a ridiculously attractive individual... that sort of situation is commonplace. Ideally, you learn early on (with the help and support of people who care about you) how to handle yourself and unwanted attention in the most socially acceptable manner.

I feel like Cullen was playing nice because of why he was there. He knew he had a job to do and had to stay focused on that, even if it meant putting his own comfort aside. Not saying that's necessarily right, but you do what you gotta do.

[BraveVesperia]

I assumed it was a bit of a developer joke about how people have wanted to get with Cullen for ages. It's also very in character for Orlesians to think they can do whatever just because they're rich, powerful, and they want a pretty toy.

That said, the fact he gets groped is rather gross.

[Elisaveta]

I thought the scene was funny because I was romancing Cullen so I could understand the desire to flirt with him! Just some light hearted fun. If you are romancing Cullen he will tell the suitors that he is taken which I thought was sweet. But hey that's just me. Cullen leads an army I think he can handle himself at the winter palace

[Ascendra]

Yes, it made me uncomfortable, but then I reminded myself that it was most likely intended as a spoof of the Cullenites, and thus not serious in tone for different reasons than "lol, harrassment is funny when it's a guy."

 

Thats what I think they intended. Seriously people going on about Cullen in numerous threads (both females and males) is much worse than the attention he got at the ball. Not saying they are all crazy or anything, just really passionate.

I felt sorry for him but really no one did him any harm, he is a grown up man after all and a Commander of Inquisition's forces, I'm sure he can handle a few Orlesian nobles. Maybe. 

[Kinsz]

Meh this is NOT  a big deal, lets not blow things out of proportion, having said that i have had a guy ninja grabbed my  ass at a club, no it wasnt a gay club so i wonder what in the hell he was doing there in the first place lol.

He did it so quickly then started walking away that i couldnt really react i just thought to myself WTF dude, thats because it was another guy grabbing it had it been a girl it wouldnt be an issue whatsoever but thats our society Thedas isnt like our world, the whole gender thing isnt a big deal so im sure Cullen isnt losing any sleep over it.

[Mr.House]

It's The Game. These nobles found his vulnerability and exploited it. It sucks sure but it fits perfectly in that scene.

[Lord_Caledore]

It didn't personally bother me.That said, I understand where the OP is coming from, since sexual assault against men is often seen as harmless or as humorous.

 

For me, it just gave me even more reason to hate Orlais, and how screwed up that entire society is.

[AtreiyaN7]

Vaguely recall a comment by Cullen about it, but frankly, the whole thing seemed more like a wink and a nod about how attractive he is. It did not seem like a dig at the level of his fans' collective adoration to me - again, just a bit of a wink and a nod about his hotness by having practically everyone falling all over him at the Winter Palace. So yes, he's pretty, and the grabby Orlesian nobles were after his attention (and his butt, apparently). It's clear that Orlesians have a few boundary issues, but I think Cullen was perfectly capable of dealing with it (although it certainly left him mightily annoyed by the whole thing).

[HuldraDancer]

Gonna admit just kind of skimmed after reading the OP and don't have much to say on this other than I would have preferred it if the ass grabbing bit wasn't in there. 

[jlb524]

I guess it could've been worse.

At least none of his admirers were de Launcets.

[The Oracle]

Seemed appropriate for the setting tbh. Dragon Age has never been one to shy away from the darker side of people's nature and sex. I mean hell, have you read the diary entry in the Hinterlands from some poor hunter? He watched Templars beat some refugees before being attacked by Mages. After the attack, when the rest of the Templars run off to kill the fleeing Mages one of them stays behind so he can rape a dying woman before the hunter shoots him with an arrow. Never mind the hints in game of Mages and Tranquil being sexually abused in the Circles. 

 

All of these thing leave me in a red fury in game but I wouldn't want them to be taken out just because they make me uncomfortable or upset. It makes the game more realistic and reactions more visceral. I don't think that the Inquisitor or Cullen could openly come out with a negative reaction because at that point they were playing "The Game" and the fate of an Empire was at stake. However, I do wish there was a way to give an amazing Vivienne-style put down that would completely disgrace the Nobles into complete pariahs. That would be very satisfying and highly in keeping with the situation.