376 réponses à ce sujet

[Ascendra]

It’s a fictional situation but the idea that ‘grown-up men’ aren’t allowed to feel vulnerable is another toxic product of patriarchy.

 

It could be an intensely uncomfortable situation. While women are in general more vulnerable simply being physically less formidable than the harasser, in this situation the vulnerability is created coercively; Cullen is under considerable pressure to not do anything to embarrass the Inquisition, so even though he could easily extricate himself—physically, if need be—he can’t. Classic power differential abuse.

 

…

 

Anyway, anyone thinking Dragon Age is dark fantasy hasn’t played or read The Witcher…

 

Um, the whole situation is a joke, we're not supposed to take it seriously. 

I do agree with what you are saying, if it was rl I would definitely feel sorry for the guy, but I think some reactions to this scene here are being blown out of proportion, since you know.. its a game. It doesn't have to be politically correct all the time.

 

 

Did people actually say it was dark fantasy?

[dragonflight288]

Hah, when I first saw it I was thinking it was a response by the developers to show how popular Cullen is among its fans. I thought they were spoofing or trolling them in a funny way. 

 

EDIT: Besides, I find it difficult to take Orlesian nobles seriously. Their guards and assassins as part of the game, I can take seriously, but the nobles themselves? Not really. I keep thinking back to that one noble who threw a fit in Mark of the Assassin going "That kill was to be mine, mine, MINE!"

[EmissaryofLies]

Hah, when I first saw it I was thinking it was a response by the developers to show how popular Cullen is among its fans. I thought they were spoofing or trolling them in a funny way. 

 

They are. It just so happens to go over a lot of people's heads; it's much easier to take offense instead.

[dragonflight288]

They are. It just so happens to go over a lot of people's heads; it's much easier to take offense instead.

 

Yeah. And it's a shame. I heard on the news recently that one traveling comedian announced he's no longer performing for college campuses because the students nationwide here in America have become so politically correct that most no longer laugh at his jokes and get offended too easily. 

[Lord_Caledore]

They are. It just so happens to go over a lot of people's heads; it's much easier to take offense instead.

 

In fairness, most players don't visit these forums and wouldn't be aware of the rabid fans. So it's definitely an inside joke, if that was the intent. You can't blame people if they missed that joke if they aren't regular BSNers.

 

I haven't been on the forums too long (at least for DA:I) and I didn't know that Cullenites were considered particularly more...devoted...than any other fan group. So, I certainly didn't see the joke in that light because I wasn't even aware it was a thing.

[Ryriena]

I was a little off taken by the butt grab comment, I maybe a fan of Cullen but know my boundaries. That would go beyond flirlting to sexual harassment even then it felt a little uncomfortable and borderline harassment. Yes it's suposed to be a joke but let say it was Josephine or Lileana had gone through this most of the folks on here saying it's funny would be up in arms.

[errantknight]

I was a little off taken by the butt grab comment, I maybe a fan of Cullen but know my boundaries. That would go beyond flirlting to sexual harassment even then it felt a little uncomfortable and borderline harassment. Yes it's suposed to be a joke but let say it was Josephine or Lileana had gone through this most of the folks on here saying it's funny would be up in arms.

Actually, I would have assumed that they were perfectly capable of dealing with it, so if they weren't saying anything, it was because they considered the mission worth tolerating it. If it had gone beyond the bounds of what Cullen considered acceptable under the circumstances, he would have gone to chat with Leliana for a few minutes. The others would have done the same.

[Mahumia]

I had totally missed the butt-grabbing bit in my first playthrough, but nonetheless missed an option to help Cullen out a bit. Just from a RP-perspective though, I don't get offended that easily from things that happen in character. And, truth be told: Orlesian nobles are a bunch of nutheads, so harassing someone is... not something to be surprised about. Actually, it made me smile as it did indeed remind me of all the smut flying around on the forum, so it appeared to be a little tongue in cheek too towards the fandom, as others mentioned before Is harassment something to laugh about? No, definitely not. But I did not perceive the situation as such.

 

If anything like this would happen IRL, I'd be far from amused and would surely help the person in question. To me, it doesn't matter in such case whether the 'victim' is male or female.

[Lee80]

Sorry, all the people blaming political correctness being why we don't find the scene funny-your wrong.  It has zero to do with that for me personally.  A thing is either funny or not.  It wasn't funny, and they took the joke a little bit too far (the ass grab).  I'm not mad at anyone, but my opinion is just as valid as anyone else, and it has nothing to do with me being politically correct.  Anyone who knows me well would know I'm anything but that!  

[sch1986]

I kinda thought it was part of the long running joke that "Cullen is just there to look pretty". And as others said, a bit of homage to the Cullenites.

I guess what is offending you is that it was sexual harassment that wasn't taken seriously? Or that if it had been a woman in Cullen's place it never would have made it out of the cutting room?

I don't disagree that men can be victims of sexual harassment, nor do I disagree that sexual harassment isn't funny, but I guess my outlook takes the medium into consideration. It's a video game. It's rated M. We all know violence shouldn't be used as the end all be all to every situation but you don't seem offended by any of that in the game?

Hopefully it's because you're an adult who understands that just because it's in a game doesn't mean it should translate to real life. This situation is the same. What I find humorous in a video game doesn't mean it would be humorous in real life. I was more upset that my inquisitor who was romancing him didn't have the opportunity to say "hands off or die".

And also, even though, we all like to say there shouldn't be any difference between if Cullen gets a butt grabbing and Josephine gets a butt grab, the fact remains that there is a difference. Not related to gender, but related to the fact that Josephine isn't an ex-Templar turned military commander for the inquisition. Josephine wouldn't be able to defend herself the way that Cullen could. And that immediately makes that same action (unwanted butt grabbing) much more threatening to Josie then to Cullen.

And I kind of disagree about there being a power differential. I was under the impression the inquisition was there to stop an assassination, not play the game. The inquisitor killed someone right in the ball room in front of everyone. If Cullen truly felt attacked/threatened do you really think he couldn't have defended himself even a little?

[errantknight]

I kinda thought it was part of the long running joke that "Cullen is just there to look pretty". And as others said, a bit of homage to the Cullenites.

I guess what is offending you is that it was sexual harassment that wasn't taken seriously? Or that if it had been a woman in Cullen's place it never would have made it out of the cutting room?

I don't disagree that men can be victims of sexual harassment, nor do I disagree that sexual harassment isn't funny, but I guess my outlook takes the medium into consideration. It's a video game. It's rated M. We all know violence shouldn't be used as the end all be all to every situation but you don't seem offended by any of that in the game?

Hopefully it's because your an adult who understands that just because it's in a game doesn't mean it should translate to real life. This situation is the same. What I find humorous in a video game doesn't mean it would be humorous in real life. I was more upset that my inquisitor who was romancing him didn't have the opportunity to say "hands off or die".

And also, even though, we all like to say there shouldn't be any difference between if Cullen gets a butt grabbing and Josephine gets a butt grab, the fact remains that there is a difference. Not related to gender, but related to the fact that Josephine isn't an ex-Templar turned military commander for the inquisition. Josephine wouldn't be able to defend herself the way that Cullen could. And that immediately makes that same action (unwanted butt grabbing) much more threatening to Josie then to Cullen.

Not really. Josie may not have military prowess, but she's more than capable of destroying them in a myriad of ways. Also, Leliana will destroy anyone who threatens Josie, lol. We had a very uncomfortable conversation about my inquisitor's casual flirting and he was not unfrightened.

[Yinello]

I found it uncomfortable myself but I thought that was intended - the nobles think they can just get away with it all. It's too bad that as Inquisitor I couldn't help get him away from the group.

[veeia]

Saying that its a parody of "rabid fans" hardly justifies the groping.

If the Cullenites were running up and pinching Greg Ellis's butt, that would be horrific. They're not, obv, because they are lovely and respectful people, but if they did...

Reminds me of the teenagers who would run up to Robert Pattinson and try to kiss him or bite him or whatever. Unacceptable, and understandably freaked him out.

[sch1986]

Not really. Josie may not have military prowess, but she's more than capable of destroying them in a myriad of ways. Also, Leliana will destroy anyone who threatens Josie, lol. We had a very uncomfortable conversation about my inquisitor's casual flirting and he was not unfrightened.

Leliana and Cassandra are definitely capable of defending themselves. Josie might destroy people politically but she does mention that in her short time as a bard she discovered she's not cut out for violence.

[EmissaryofLies]

Yeah. And it's a shame. I heard on the news recently that one traveling comedian announced he's no longer performing for college campuses because the students nationwide here in America have become so politically correct that most no longer laugh at his jokes and get offended too easily. 

 

Such is the state of the "home of the brave". The perpetual witchhunt to destroy people's creativity disgusts me and makes me ashamed to be a part of such a pussified generation.

[Ryriena]

Saying that its a parody of "rabid fans" hardly justifies the groping.

If the Cullenites were running up and pinching Greg Ellis's butt, that would be horrific. They're not, obv, because they are lovely and respectful people, but if they did...

Reminds me of the teenagers who would run up to Robert Pattinson and try to kiss him or bite him or whatever. Unacceptable, and understandably freaked him out.

I have not heard of a signal Cullen fan that would do somthing like that to Greg, since he is still very talkative to fans and very much does gifts for us on his Twitter. Compare that too poor Robert whom has actually gotten hurt by rabid fans. I heard one of one incident were a group of teens scratched themself to the point of drawn blood and asked him to suck on them. Now that is rabid.

[gothicshark]

Is it harassment? Yes. But fact remains is that they are nobles who saw some eye candy and proceeded to do whatever they like because they are used to doing whatever they like to those beneath them.

 

**edit: You have to hang around Cullen a bit more at the ball and you'll see the nobles in action. lol!

 

1. Yes it is harassment

2. to the people offended, get over it, it is in their to remind guys that behavior is wrong, frankly sometimes the best way to show what not to do is to reverse the situation and turn it into humor. to highlight "hey how would you like it if you were treated like this". 

3. Fan girl service, because lets face it, every woman has had this situation happen, the role reversal with Cullen makes me happy for strange reasons. 

[Former_Fiend]

Sorry, all the people blaming political correctness being why we don't find the scene funny-your wrong.  It has zero to do with that for me personally.  A thing is either funny or not.  It wasn't funny, and they took the joke a little bit too far (the ass grab).  I'm not mad at anyone, but my opinion is just as valid as anyone else, and it has nothing to do with me being politically correct.  Anyone who knows me well would know I'm anything but that!  

 

Here's the thing; whether or not something is funny is technically subjective. I found the scene funny, you didn't. Which is fair.

 

But that's the point; everyone is going to have a different line to draw in the sand on that issue. Everyone has a different definition of where "too far" is. 

[errantknight]

Leliana and Cassandra are definitely capable of defending themselves. Josie might destroy people politically but she does mention that in her short time as a bard she discovered she's not cut out for violence.

That's what I meant. Josie is extremely dangerous to orlesians--and if the game doesn't work, she has leliana for the violence. I doubt she needs that. I think Josie can deal with most issues herself.

[Thiefy]

The harassment bothered me loads, too. Especially the gay noble asking him to dance with him. He makes it clear he doesn't dig men and the guy just dismisses it like it was irrelevant.

It's no different than my straight female quizzie having to dance with Florriane.  

 

Thedas, in general, isn't hung up on gender and sexuality the way this world is.

 

Anyway, I did find it both uncomfortable and funny at the same time - Cullen feeling awkward by all the surrounding people. I always made sure to come back and check up on him often even if his dialogue didn't change just to make it seem like quizzie was keeping an eye out for him.

[Elsariel]

I thought it was quite amusing and I was not once offended or irked. I must be a terrible person.

[Colonelkillabee]

Saying that its a parody of "rabid fans" hardly justifies the groping.
 

It doesn't need justification in the first place.

 

Tis a vidya gaem, meant to be humorous, while also being a bit bothering because the Orlesians are... well Orlesians, but also, Cullen is a big boy. It's not very nice when big religious organizations act like common pimps and get their bitches addicted to drugs so that they serve them, but that happens too. I'm sure drug addicts felt a little too close to home there as well.

 

I think the real issue is some people found it humorous and wish they didn't. If this is bad for some people, then hope you never meet me. I laugh at some terrible terrible ****. Humor is innocent. Some may not find it humorous, but then, you can't make everyone happy.

[RenAdaar]

You guys are making me feel like a terrible person for not being bothered by the joke. 

[LolaLei]

I figured it was supposed to be a bit of a joke/jibe towards us Cullenites, which I find amusing if that's the case. But yeah, I do feel bad for the guy especially if you bring along Cole who then tells you that Cullen feels like he's being hunted and doesn't belong in that sort of environment.

 

I dunno if you guys remember, but ages ago David Gaider spoke a scene/moment in the game that came across as a bit "rapey"/dodgy so they had to rewrite it or change it to be less so? Perhaps was the encounter in question?

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Oh come on now, people...

 

Everyone knows that only women can get sexually harassed. Because patriarchy. Because oppression. Because victimization. Because fwweewwingzz !

 

If you are a man and you get sexually harassed, you are supposed to put up with it and enjoy it like a Real Man. If you complain, then you are a weak wimp and a fa***t. I have actually seen men who were sexually harassed and tried to complain being labelled that. 

 

I know the double standards suck but hey, that is reality. Equality ? That is just a buzzword that is bandied about with little to no meaning. 

 

The fact that we have plenty of commenters on this thread who go about employing mental gymnastics trying to justify the sexual harassment that took place should be an indication. 

 

This is not the first time this has happened with Bioware though. Remember Citadel DLC for Mass Effect 3 ? How Femshep can quite literally harass and coerce James Vega into a sexual encounter ?

 

Bioware Games :- Where straight men can be victims and that is okay and hilarious. Politically correct goodness for everyone !