234 réponses à ce sujet

[Boomshakalakalakaboom]

The people of Redcliff don't seem to have a problem with it. They are concerned with the information that Templars are attacking, the city's shipments are getting raided by Templars and most importantly their leader either can't or won't do anything about it. If anything Mages are welcome because they will defend it like their own. We have to be realistic and treat these events like Templars were really going to attack because everyone in Redcliff believed they would. 

 

More importantly Anora is harsh in this matter, if Alistair rules alone (or with female Cousland) he says he understands why Fiona did what she did but he has to exile them from Redcliff because after what happened he has to do it as king, so its not something he wants to do. Clearly he can see the manipulation of Alexius but he is powerless against it.

 

Just because they don't see it, it doesn't mean she hasn't done it. You can lead a child into heavy rapids. Just because the child is too naive to see the danger in it, is that supposed to make it okay?  

[LOLandStuff]

I take it Teagan was just going to sit on his ass if templars came attacking Redcliff becasue he let mages in.

[Lulupab]

Just because they don't see it, it doesn't mean she hasn't done it. You can lead a child into heavy rapids. Just because the child is too naive to see the danger in it, is that supposed to make it okay?  

 

So you have made yourself the omniscient one in this scenario? I'm sure you'd join the "children" in Redcliff if you were put in the same situation with a mindset belonging to Thedas. Also I don't think her approval ever matter to Alexius, he would have had his way one way or another. Time travel gives him unlimited potential in manipulating.

[Lulupab]

I take it Teagan was just going to sit on his ass if templars came attacking Redcliff becasue he let mages in.

 

Whether it was Alexius' manipulation or something else, Teagan indeed sat on his ass when Templars attacked Redcliff. Mages defended the gate and after that Redcliff soldiers are getting ready for battle (you can see them training) because they think Templars are really attacking.

 

The writing can be blamed here, but the manipulation was real. Everyone believed it and/or fell for it.

[Computron2000]

And yet if you make Vivienne divine she makes the exact reforms Fiona initially wanted and tried to get votes to do it before the college of enchanters was disbanded. Either in the grave or alive, Fiona has played her role in future of mages, dumb or no.

 

Yes she played a part to ensure a large number were in graves before said future arrived. If she dd not break the circles, waited out the hysteria and changed things from inside as Vivienne had said, a large number would not be dead. Sure some would have rebelled regardless but talking to the mages in redcliffe made it obvious. Some stuck with the rebels because they had nowhere else to go. Then they get enslaved (lol and sold out by fiona who was all for freedom, double lol). Too bad the game didn't have a option to offer refuge in the inquisition to those types. Some ran off alone but still got killed even though they wanted to help because they were alone against peasants. All those were on fiona's head

[Colonelkillabee]

The fact that the very people of Redcliff are concerned with Templar invasion speaks volumes. You are trying to use your own viewpoint on characters in Redcliff. They were manipulated by Alexius and the fact that he used time magic made it worse. No one had any reason to doubt Templars were not attacking based on the proof (fake) Alexius provided. 

 

You fail to put yourself in place of people manipulated by a efficient plan and time magic and call people idiots. 

The wardens were manipulated by Corypheus and they were idiots too. "Hurr durr, we're all having the calling at the same time??? Old wardens AND new??? Well... THAT'S NOT SUSPICIOUS! SEEMS LEGIT!!! LETS OVERREACT!"

 

Being tricked doesn't make someone any less of an idiot. The fact that they felt for it is the symptom of idiocy.

[LOLandStuff]

When did the templars attack Redcliff? I saw only demons.

 

Anyway...What about those tranquils? Huh? Or how about those other mages going about the countryside all Mage Supremacy.

[Lulupab]

Yes she played a part to ensure a large number were in graves before said future arrived. If she dd not break the circles, waited out the hysteria and changed things from inside as Vivienne had said, a large number would not be dead. Sure some would have rebelled regardless but talking to the mages in redcliffe made it obvious. Some stuck with the rebels because they had nowhere else to go. Then they get enslaved (lol and sold out by fiona who was all for freedom, double lol). Too bad the game didn't have a option to offer refuge in the inquisition to those types. Some ran off alone but still got killed even though they wanted to help because they were alone against peasants. All those were on fiona's head

 

Sure the Seekers and Templars are a saint in this. Your trivializing of this matter is disgusting and thankfully its not a real life matter. She didn't want to break circles, she wanted mages to be more free inside the circles and govern themselves without Templar or Seeker scrutiny. This idea of hers was answered with disbanding of college of enchanters and harsh measures applied in circles. At that point she had every right to do what she did. 

[EmissaryofLies]

It makes me want to "Misery" the person who wrote Fiona.

[Lulupab]

The wardens were manipulated by Corypheus and they were idiots too. "Hurr durr, we're all having the calling at the same time??? Old wardens AND new??? Well... THAT'S NOT SUSPICIOUS! SEEMS LEGIT!!! LETS OVERREACT!"

 

Being tricked doesn't make someone any less of an idiot. The fact that they felt for it is the symptom of idiocy.

 

Then everyone in Redcliff is an idiot, not just Fiona. You cannot make any argument indicating Fiona was any less capable than anyone else in Redcliff.

 

The manipulation of the wardens was on a much bigger scale, they were all dying (or thought they are). Are you claiming you were never tricked in your life? Are you claiming wars were not won by mere trickery? Get down from your high horse, you are making fun of yourself.

[Boomshakalakalakaboom]

So you have made yourself the omniscient one in this scenario? I'm sure you'd join the "children" in Redcliff if you were put in the same situation with a mindset belonging to Thedas. Also I don't think her approval ever matter to Alexius, he would have had his way one way or another. Time travel gives him unlimited potential in manipulating.

 

Oh, there is no disputing that, I would have. Point being, Fiona should have known better but was too blinded by her own stupidity to give an ounce of consideration to the matter at hand. I will support the mages (dependent on which play-through I am doing because lets not forget, this is a game and I have the capability to role-play differently for each pc I make) but I will never consider what Fiona did to be okay. Just like I will never consider what 90% of the people that make history changing decisions in Thedas to be okay, because lets face it, Thedas is a f***ed up place filled with a lot of f***ed up people and Fiona is now one of them.   

[LOLandStuff]

Those poor fools trusted Fiona she might actually help them instead of getting them cornered like rats. Most of those mages have seen the outside world through a window. Expect them to be confused and inept once they leave the Circles. Fiona should have known better.

She's the sort of person I wouldn't trust with a grocery list.

[herkles]

I find it weird that Fiona who was a slave would be fine with the slave holding empire who made her an indutured servent, and promosied that after IIRC 10 years to be a citizen of the Imperium, with all the rights that come with it; including owning slaves. 

 

of all the people who should have said something about this, I actually think it is fiona at least with her backstory.

[LOLandStuff]

I find it weird that Fiona who was a slave would be fine with the slave holding empire who made her an indutured servent, and promosied that after IIRC 10 years to be a citizen of the Imperium, with all the rights that come with it; including owning slaves. 

 

of all the people who should have said something about this, I actually think it is fiona at least with her backstory.

 

He must have sold her some fancy BS with scrumptious dressing if she fell for it. I'd find it an orlesian description but Schmuck Bait fits it better.

[Lulupab]

I find it weird that Fiona who was a slave would be fine with the slave holding empire who made her an indutured servent, and promosied that after IIRC 10 years to be a citizen of the Imperium, with all the rights that come with it; including owning slaves. 

 

of all the people who should have said something about this, I actually think it is fiona at least with her backstory.

 

She also thought previous circle system was worse than her slave life, go figure. I mean if someone who has been a slave thinks old circles are worse, this tells us something. She begged to be recruited into wardens to simply leave the circle.

 

So I think in a life and death situation (even if it was faked by a mastermind) she made the only decision possible.

[Colonelkillabee]

Then everyone in Redcliff is an idiot, not just Fiona. You cannot make any argument indicating Fiona was any less capable than anyone else in Redcliff.

 

The manipulation of the wardens was on a much bigger scale, they were all dying (or thought they are). Are you claiming you were never tricked in your life? Are you claiming wars were not won by mere trickery? Get down from your high horse, you are making fun of yourself.

Wars are won due to people being idiots, yes. Also, the people in redcliffe follow her lead, so you can't exactly blame them. The only other people I blame beyond Fiona is the mages that claimed they didn't want this war, and followed her despite her pushing for it. No one forced them to follow her, so they're to blame as well.

 

Also, the fact that the wardens were feeling this on a big scale is the biggest greatest sign that it's bullshit, so yes I consider them all idiots. Was I ever tricked? Sure. It never cost the lives of thousands though or risked the end of the world And Fiona was an idiot even before being tricked, so.

[Ranadiel Marius]

So here is a very important question....what the hell does a Tevinter Magister bring to the table against Templars? They aren't used to fighting templars, the templars in TI lack any anti-magic abilities, and we see in a war table mission that they are completely flabbergasted at the concept of someone stopping their mighty magic. So what exactly is Alexius offering Fiona?

Safe passage to TI? Then why take over the castle? Reinforcements? They would be at best equal in strength to Redcliffe soldiers, and far fewer in number? So what the heck did he promise her that would be worth anything against a Templar army (if we assume that one had been coming).

[Colonelkillabee]

The Circle sort of protects mages from ignorant hillbillies. Just look at the mage in Crestwood that didn't join the Rebellion and tried to help the Crestwood villagers. Sword through the stomach and left to die, in case you haven't seen her yet.

 

So staying in a group was probably their safest bet. Even if their leader has dementia.

Ah true, fair point.

[Computron2000]

Sure the Seekers and Templars are a saint in this. Your trivializing of this matter is disgusting and thankfully its not a real life matter. She didn't want to break circles, she wanted mages to be more free inside the circles and govern themselves without Templar or Seeker scrutiny. This idea of hers was answered with disbanding of college of enchanters and harsh measures applied in circles. At that point she had every right to do what she did. 

 

LOL, like i said, she decided to do it right while hysteria was ruling the peasants. OF COURSE NO ONE WOULD AGREE.

 

Some moron named Anders decided to blow up a chantry. One bloody moron mage. And you decide that several hundred mages should no longer be supervised. 

 

Yes that is the most intelligent decision ever.

[Ranadiel Marius]

Alexius ability to time travel beats out a few lyrium sucking Templars. I'm sorry. Not every mage/Magister is created equal. For everyone that's taken by surprise there's another with unique/obscure magic that the Templars have never encountered.

So Fiona is aware he can time travel?

[Ranadiel Marius]

Tevinter mages >>> southern mages (with a few exceptions) by virtue of being allowed to learn how to defend themselves.

Except that they don't know how to counter Templar anti-magic as they never see it and have no idea how to fight without their precious all powerful magic.

I'm taking you changing subjects as you acknowledging that Fiona was unaware of the time magic though...