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[Master Warder Z_]

Like Meredith, Lambert gets retconned by Inquisition into something much worse I fear.

Eh...

Kinda I guess.

It doesn't invalidate his actions though.

[Willowhugger]

Pardon my French but that is bullish*t.

 

In a very literal way he is because Lambert is the one who decides the response to the mage's leaving is to try to force them back in (or kill them).

You could say the mages are making an unpardonable provocation but it's Lambert who declares war because of it.

It's kind of the Civil War where neither side wanted to fire the first shot.

But Lambert finally did.

[Kinsz]

I believe Vivienne said it best when she pointed out that they should have relieved Fiona of her duties years ago and have spend her remaining years gardening.

[Hellion Rex]

I believe Vivienne said it best when she pointed out that they should have relieved Fiona of her duties years ago and have spend her remaining years gardening.

A pity that Vivienne wasn't made Grand Enchanter first.

[The Baconer]

Like Meredith, Lambert gets retconned by Inquisition into something much worse I fear.

 

Meredith was never not a loathsome sow. At least, not anywhere within the period of Dragon Age 2.

 

Lambert was trying to protect the Seekers from being exposed as ex-Tranquil as much as the Mages being kept from such a cure.

Lambert knew once it was revealed they'd always had a cure for Tranquility and possibly demonic possession, the Seekers would be disbanded.

 

Even if that were the only possible conclusion, it's that way because the Seekers and their deceit made it so. And then they all died.

 

Sometimes karma does function correctly in Thedas.

[Willowhugger]

A pity that Vivienne wasn't made Grand Enchanter first.

 

I do kind of think Vivienne just would have had Lambert straight up murdered.

[raging_monkey]

I do kind of think Vivienne just would have had Lambert straight up murdered.

or given more power

[Willowhugger]

or given more power

 

"The Circle has only one master and she does not share power."

-Gandalf on Vivienne.

[Master Warder Z_]

or given more power

She interjected if present in Coles conversation with Cassandra to that effect.

How do you react to an attack?

You strike back.

[raging_monkey]

"The Circle has only one master and she does not share power."
-Gandalf on Vivienne.

doubtful... shes a chantry apolo... loyalist. What the chantry(technically temps) say goes

[Kinsz]

A pity that Vivienne wasn't made Grand Enchanter first.

Agreed , Vivienne has her issues as well but being dumb isnt one of them, she would have made an excellent leader for the mages as proven in the epilogue if she is made Divine.

[raging_monkey]

She interjected if present in Coles conversation with Cassandra to that effect.
How do you react to an attack?
You strike back.

kinda proves my point doesnt viv somewhat condones his actions

[Willowhugger]

doubtful... shes a chantry apolo... loyalist. What the chantry(technically temps) say goes

 

Then you misunderstand Vivienne strongly.

 

Vivienne is a Chantry loyalist because she believes in a "you scratch my back" relationship with the Chantry.

 

Even her support of the Templars is because she thinks they keep away the common rabble.

Vivienne is more afraid of peasants with pitchforks than Templars.

And to Vivienne's credit, she's become powerful, wealthy, and respected thanks to her Chantry and noble butt-kissing.

[raging_monkey]

Then you misunderstand Vivienne strongly.
 
Vivienne is a Chantry loyalist because she believes in a "you scratch my back" relationship with the Chantry.
 
Even her support of the Templars is because she thinks they keep away the common rabble.
Vivienne is more afraid of peasants with pitchforks than Templars.
And to Vivienne's credit, she's become powerful, wealthy, and respected thanks to her Chantry and noble butt-kissing.

oh i understood her perfectlly but i like mocking her views more

[errantknight]

There was truly no alternative. After the explosion at the conclave everyone turned to mages for answers and many already blamed them and found them guilty. Any friends or alliances they had was gone in an instant with Templars getting ready to march on them. Ferelden already faced enough scrutiny for harboring the mages, it simply couldn't provide them with military aid against the "armies of the righteous". Templars got a bad name later in the game and at that point they were still respected. The people in Redcliff speak about threat of Templar invasion and how Alexius' influence stopped the attack.

 

Fiona says Alexius arrived very timely to help them (direct quote). Alexius used time magic and arrived in an exact moment where mages had a dagger on their throat and Alexius removed that dagger, and this way he made sure he would reach the mages sooner than the Inquisition as well. But I'm not sure there would be any mages left without Alexius' interference.

 

Venatori agents infiltrated Redcliff and "warned" Fiona about imminent Templar attack, the Templars did actually attack Redcliff too. (When you close the rift outside the gate you see them). They are not a vast army, perhaps they are mind controlled or something by Alexius to show FIona Templars are attacking.

There's always a choice. Even if the choice was as simple as treason or death (which I don't believe it was), choosing treason is still treason. It doesn't stop being treason because it seemed like a good idea at the time.

[Hellion Rex]

I do kind of think Vivienne just would have had Lambert straight up murdered.

Lol, would have solved a lot of our problems, that's for sure.

[Br3admax]

Lol, would have solved a lot of our problems, that's for sure.

Lambert being killed is why the Rebellion lasted as long as it did. What Vivienne should have done is kill Fiona...

[Colonelkillabee]

There's always a choice. Even if the choice was as simple as treason or death (which I don't believe it was), choosing treason is still treason. It doesn't stop being treason because it seemed like a good idea at the time.

And that's really the bottom line, isn't it? Mage fans may not think that the mages owed loyalty due to how they were treated, but well tough ******. I'm no mage and I'm not going to be very accepting of treason regardless of the reason, especially when it could've indeed been avoided. **** that, **** them.

[Hellion Rex]

Lambert being killed is why the Rebellion lasted as long as it did. What Vivienne should have done is kill Fiona...

Hmmmm, I wonder how it would have turned out if both were dead, and Viv led all the mages....

[The Baconer]

Hmmmm, I wonder how it would have turned out if both were dead, and Viv led all the mages....

 

That would have been the ideal solution.

[raging_monkey]

Hmmmm, I wonder how it would have turned out if both were dead, and Viv led all the mages....

railroaded even more to siding with the temps lol

[Br3admax]

Hmmmm, I wonder how it would have turned out if both were dead, and Viv led all the mages....

Ideally Lucius would have Lambert tried, and Vivienne would have Fiona taken care of. Then there would be no story. 

[The Baconer]

Ideally Lucius would have Lambert tried,

 

But then the Seekers wouldn't have been purged... I prefer them purged.

[Ranadiel Marius]

I'm starting to wonder how much opposition to the mages is hate against Fiona rather than mages in general. Would there still be as much hate if say Fiona died at the conclave and Rhys was the leader of the mages? or if the mages never made a deal with Tevinter but were instead enslaved by the Venatori

Eh, it would depend on multiple factors. Rhys would at least have the benefit of not being responsible for the war (directly or indirectly), so it would certainly help make the mage side more appealing. Still probably would make Templars canon in my import playthroughs. Being enslaved would also help even the paths out compared to now where my Inq has no real desire to associate with TI sympathizers as long as another option is available.

 

 

Okay, this is ridiculous since the Mages kind of won the war.

 

It's a miserable UNNECESSARY war but the Templars were at the negotiating table.

 

 

And I'm sure the fact that the templars were willing to talk is totally worth all of the innocent blood that was spilled when the circles fell including the tranquil who were returned to their senses just in time to experience death so that their skulls could be used as lamp posts. I'm sure that the blood spilled because the mages didn't prepare for...whatever their goal was, was totally worth all the people that Fiona was responsible for that needlessly died for her decision to jump head first into the fire. I'm sure it makes her sleep easier at night....oh who am I kidding, that implies she has a conscience.

 

.....and I think I need to stop posting about Fiona. The more I think about how she unrepentantly failed at her job, the more pissed off it gets me. It used to only bug me a little, now considerably more. Not even sure why it bugs me so much.

[chrstnmonks]

I think one of the most missed opportunities in game is not being able to judge Fiona or call her out on her bulls***. Because, if you do side with the mages or conscript them she still remains leader of the mage rebellion. You really can't condemn  her for her bad actions.