114 réponses à ce sujet

[LobselVith8]

When you put Gaspard on the throne do you still get the peace between Orlais and Ferelden war table mission?

 

Yes, you still get the war table quest, whether Gaspard is on the throne, or simply a figurehead while Briala rules.

[Warden Commander Aeducan]

When you put Gaspard on the throne do you still get the peace between Orlais and Ferelden war table mission?

Yes, and that mission is always available regardless of who's Ferelden's ruler.

[Giantdeathrobot]

Cullen being a Ferelden native doesn't mean he thinks of it first. He wants what's best for the Inquisition, and as a military man himself he thinks Gaspard would be a better leader than Celene. To me, it was a good point towards him. It shows he has more loyalty to the Inquisition than to the place he was born.

 

Besides, he has lived in Kirkwall for, what, almost a decade prior to DA:I? I think it's safe to say he doesn.t have a particular affection for Ferelden given he left the place.

[lastpawn]

It's amusing to see people try to justify this with "Well yes Gaspard may lead the world into a horrible war BUT first he will help us with the whole old god thing so it's a wash, no biggie."

[phaonica]

Gaspard openly declared expansionism and the first country to attack is Ferelden - he mentions it specifically. How on earth Cullen (with his Ferelden Origin and having his whole family in Ferelden) can support that?!

 I don't remember ever hearing Gaspard say that. That's interesting. It's things like this that make the current choice system bother me. You don't ever *see* what you're choices are costing. You might read about them in wartable text, but you don't have to experience any of it.

 

This one irks me personally, though. I don't know exactly what Gaspard says or does concerning this issue, but the idea of Orlais using the opportunity granted by either the Inquisition or the Breach to attack Ferelden is infuriating.

[Ashagar]

Ah but Gaspard is capable of making peace at least with Ferelden but I wouldn't place bets on him not starting a war with Tevinitor however given current events.

[Warden Commander Aeducan]

It's amusing to see people try to justify this with "Well yes Gaspard may lead the world into a horrible war BUT first he will help us with the whole old god thing so it's a wash, no biggie."

It's also amusing to see people trying to dig up every reason to justify their decision to side with Celene.

[TeraBat]

It's also amusing to see people trying to dig up every reason to justify their decision to side with Celene.

 

For what it's worth, my Inquisitor just couldn't clear the moral hurdle of 'stand by and let someone die.' 

[Warden Commander Aeducan]

For what it's worth, my Inquisitor just couldn't clear the moral hurdle of 'stand by and let someone die.' 

Indeed, yours Inquisitor not so many other people Inquisitor who has different reasons to support Celene/Gaspard/Briala. One thing I don't like about Wicked Eyes and Wicked Hearts is that it's require the player to read TME to understand the whole picture, and have more insight. That said if you're playing as different type of character for example role-play as political savvy Inquisitor then I'm sure you'll find reasons to justify siding with Gaspard or Briala. You didn't play as Orlesian Secret Service anyway.

[Ophir147]

Ah but Gaspard is capable of making peace at least with Ferelden but I wouldn't place bets on him not starting a war with Tevinitor however given current events.

 

Good.

 

Make 'em fight a war on a second front and all of a sudden, boom, you're an Exalted March away from meaningful peace and all the oxmens' heads on pikes in front of Val Royeaux.

 

Also I can't bring myself to choose any leader other than Gaspard, he's just too awesome of a character. Does anyone who has chosen another know if Celene or Briala shows up personally to assist with your showdown at the Arbor Wilds?

[thesuperdarkone2]

Good.

 

Make 'em fight a war on a second front and all of a sudden, boom, you're an Exalted March away from meaningful peace and all the oxmens' heads on pikes in front of Val Royeaux.

 

Also I can't bring myself to choose any leader other than Gaspard, he's just too awesome of a character. Does anyone who has chosen another know if Celene or Briala shows up personally to assist with your showdown at the Arbor Wilds?

Celene and Briala do show up to help you if.

[Bethgael]

Cullen is from Ferelden, but it's clear he considers himself kind of outside of that. No wonder after 10 years in Kirkwall. He never thought he'd come back. He's also stationed in Orlais and dealing with a situation in Orlais when he makes that assessment, and he's not working for Ferelden or Orlais, but the nationless Inquisition (and before that, the nationless Templar Order, which if it has a nation at all, is Orlais, since that's where the Templar Command is). 

 

Also, the idea that Gaspard will actually invade Ferelden is basically speculation, isn't it? Where did he openly declare it? I must've missed that conversation. He does believe in strong Orlesian military might, of course. 

 

Gaspard is not just a potential ruler but a very famous Chevelier, and several things Cullen says (in voice-acting and in the little agent notes on the War Table) suggest he has great admiration for the Cheveliers, their skill, and their code. I don't find it OOC for Cullen to endorse him at all. 

I do. Assassinating a sitting ruler is part of The Game, and Cullen despises The Game (as he says often). Letting Celene die is something Leliana might consider. Cullen prefers honour over dishonesty in just about every other situation. My mouth literally dropped open when he agreed with Leliana that Celene could die. [In my headcanon, my Inq in my first playthrough--who was romancing him--and he have quite the heated discussion about that moral backflip later. She was disgusted. The only thing that saved him was that he added "if his sister is wrong about him."].

Cullen's a military man, but he isn't a warmonger. He's seen what power for power's sake does (Meredith; Uldred, who, remember, reacted as he did after making a deal with Loghain).

He's also supposed to be intelligent, and a good scholar, with an understanding of history (as stated by many others in-game, and himself). He'd, therefore, understand the consequences of such an action. Also, if you do the mage side of things--they know it's assassinating Celene that will make things unstable for Cory. Gaspard was unable to take control in the "future"--even though it's his sister that ends up being the one who worked for Cory. So, Cullen and Leliana are weakly going against what they actually know will happen (if you take that road).

It is a forced OOC, so that you have 1 advisor per preference. And that's all it is.

ETA: To answer the question above, yes, Celene does show up in the Arbor Wilds. And if you don't give her Briala back, she doesn't interfere with you in the epilogue slides either.

[thesuperdarkone2]

Surprised Cullen would support someone who is willing to start a war against his homeland where is family lives. Guess Cullen doesn't care if his family dies in a war.

[Shelidon]

The moment you stop thinking about what's best for the world and you start putting the Orlais-Ferelden thing as first priority, you become Loghain. Maybe it's better to keep politics in perspective, when you have an ancient magister threatning to swallow the world.

[Hazegurl]

The way I see it Cullen is a part of the Inquisition first, Fereldan second.  Celene ended up in her position because she's weak and the only logical reason to keep her around is as a future puppet, which isn't a bad deal. The only problem with that, is that we are facing a possible end of the world as we know it scenario and we don't have time to cater to a weak leader who may not have the longevity to maintain power.  Celene is great at playing the game, but that's about it. Now unless we're inviting Cory to a grand ball with hidden daggers, and occult advisers leading the way then Celene is all but useless if things go FUBAR.

[MillKill]

Ah but Gaspard is capable of making peace at least with Ferelden but I wouldn't place bets on him not starting a war with Tevinitor however given current events.

 

If he starts a war with Tevinter, I'm supporting him in all future playthroughs. I don't care what Dorian says; that country needs to go.

[Amirit]

Cullen is from Ferelden, but it's clear he considers himself kind of outside of that. No wonder after 10 years in Kirkwall. He never thought he'd come back. He's also stationed in Orlais and dealing with a situation in Orlais when he makes that assessment, and he's not working for Ferelden or Orlais, but the nationless Inquisition (and before that, the nationless Templar Order, which if it has a nation at all, is Orlais, since that's where the Templar Command is). 

 

Also, the idea that Gaspard will actually invade Ferelden is basically speculation, isn't it? Where did he openly declare it? I must've missed that conversation. He does believe in strong Orlesian military might, of course. 

 

Gaspard is not just a potential ruler but a very famous Chevelier, and several things Cullen says (in voice-acting and in the little agent notes on the War Table) suggest he has great admiration for the Cheveliers, their skill, and their code. I don't find it OOC for Cullen to endorse him at all. 

 

Not at all! If you talk to Gaspard during the ball he openly tells you that he is going to attack Ferelden and Nevarra. And "restore the glory of the Empire" by the military force. Later on sliders for Gaspard-single ruler you see that he actually did exactly that - invaded Ferelden and Tevinter (Nevarra was not worth to mention?). So his expansionist plans are very real even if you did not read The Masked Empire where it was discussed too.  

 

And Cullen can count himself homeless but he does take his LI to the favorite spot at the lake in Ferelden, and all his family is still in Ferelden. 

[EngineerEd]

Not at all! If you talk to Gaspard during the ball he openly tells you that he is going to attack Ferelden and Nevarra. And "restore the glory of the Empire" by the military force. Later on sliders for Gaspard-single ruler you see that he actually did exactly that - invaded Ferelden and Tevinter (Nevarra was not worth to mention?). So his expansionist plans are very real even if you did not read The Masked Empire where it was discussed too.  

 

And Cullen can count himself homeless but he does take his LI to the favorite spot at the lake in Ferelden, and all his family is still in Ferelden. 

Not if you do the Ferelden-Orlais peace talks.

 

_______________

 

 

Anyways, I don't see what is so surprising to people, the commander of the inquisition forces supports putting in place a leader who is known for his battlefield prowess and utmost respect by Orlesian chevaliers, plot twist???

[Arlee]

Actually, the only valid argument he produced was "Gaspard is the rightful ruler and Celene outplayed him". I'd say you can not blame every ruler for being attacked by a power hungry opponent - and this is exactly the thing he blames Celene for. For 20 years Orlei did not bother it's neighbors at all and he wants to though it all away? Not a good advise from an adviser. 

Army is still at our disposal, no matter who rules, but how can he be so short-sided?

 

P.S. No, wrong wording - how can he be DEPICTED so short-sided? 

 

Actually in the part where Lileanna says maybe we should just let Celene die, Cullen says she's right and then lists all the things I said in my first post. He literally lays it all out there.

 

At least Gaspard actually stays with the Inquisition unlike Celene.

 

? Celene clung to the Inquisition in my ending and it was suggested it was only that and my support of her which was keeping her on her throne. Also it was also mentioned Gespard was still going to try and start another war even though he was exiled.

 

Gaspard is not just a potential ruler but a very famous Chevelier, and several things Cullen says (in voice-acting and in the little agent notes on the War Table) suggest he has great admiration for the Cheveliers, their skill, and their code. I don't find it OOC for Cullen to endorse him at all. 

 

Exactly that as well. Right from the start it was clear Cullen at the very least respected him and had disdain for the fact it was only because Clene out manuvored Gaspard in the Game that she ended up as the ruler.

 

For what it's worth, my Inquisitor just couldn't clear the moral hurdle of 'stand by and let someone die.' 

 

Yea that was also an issue for me. Maybe in my second playthrough I might do it differently, it's still rough though.

[Dark Helmet]

Cullen supporting the right candidate for the throne of Orlais does not make him a traitor.

 

It does however put him on my exceedingly short "Good guy" list.

[LadyJaneGrey]

The advisor's advice in that situation was so ham-handed. Their respective choices only reflect their profession (Cullen and Gaspard are militaristic, Josephine and Celene are cunning and political, so on)

 

Yup.  If Cullen and Leliana had mentioned the possibility of supporting one of the other candidates before we arrived at the Winter Palace, I could have gone with it.  Unfortunately in all the conversations leading up to that mission all of them were saying "WE MUST KEEP CELENE FROM BEING ASSASSINATED!"  It felt really jarring.

[berrieh]

You don't have to let Celene be assassinated to select Gaspard, do you? Can't you blackmail her into it, if she lives? 

[Arlee]

Yup.  If Cullen and Leliana had mentioned the possibility of supporting one of the other candidates before we arrived at the Winter Palace, I could have gone with it.  Unfortunately in all the conversations leading up to that mission all of them were saying "WE MUST KEEP CELENE FROM BEING ASSASSINATED!"  It felt really jarring.

 

In the war table discussion before hand, none of them said "hey we should let Celene die" but both of them in their dialouge made it clear they respected the person they were talking about. Cullen in particular made it clear he thought Gapard was the rightful ruler and Celene just out played him in politicing.

[Arlee]

You don't have to let Celene be assassinated to select Gaspard, do you? Can't you blackmail her into it, if she lives? 

 

Yes, but you have to find the clues which implicate Celene as creating this whole situation in order to have that option.

[Jester]

It's also amusing to see people trying to dig up every reason to justify their decision to side with Celene.

Why wouldn't my power hungry Inquisitor want his puppet on the throne of the most powerful nation in the world?

 

As to Cullen, why would he care about Ferelden? He was a member of Templar Order from his youth, so I don't think he has any real family to speak of there, he has only bad memories from his time in Fereldan Circle, he spent 10 years in Kirkwall and now he's one of the leaders of an organization that stands above (or apart) all other nations.