376 réponses à ce sujet

[ComedicSociopathy]

*sigh* For the n'th time... For me, at least, it's not anything to do with whether they're benign or not. I always thought the Dalish origin was kind of twee in DAO, with that plucky music in the camp and that... Cammen and Gheyna, ugh. Always wanted them to be darker and wilder. This, though, just makes no sense for them. If I heard they were going mageocracy it would make more sense, given their history. I like lore developments to make sense. None of the arguments put forward on the board move the logic meter, given what else we know of the Dalish, so it's a development in a stupid evil direction as opposed to something more compelling.

 

Not all Dalish clans are going to take a "stupid evil" option and have their extra mages abandoned in the woods to fend for themselves. We've only gotten one example of that occurring and because the Dalish are such a culturally diverse people its possible that their are some clans that keep all their mages or have a limit of how much they have far above the supposedly average of three only. We just don't know and that's the problem with the describing or judging the Dalish as a whole, one clan might be radically different with a set of different customs and policies for dealing with their mages. All we've gotten so far in the lore and the games are specific examples of what certain clans do with their mages and not a comprehensive list of every single clan in all of Thedas. Until we do we can't say definitively whether the Dalish all limit the number of mages they have in a single clan.

 

Also, I never got the impression that the Dalish were a true mageocracy. Yes, Keepers did have positions of leadership in the clan, but so do Hahrens, warleaders and hearth mistresses. I would imagine that depending on what problem the clan was facing decision-making on how to handle that problem would fall to whoever's role best fit it. Speaking of the Keepers can you really condemn some of the Dalish for being "stupid evil" for having a limit to how many mages they have. The reason why they do that in some cases may just be pragmatism then anything resembling mean-spirited prejudice. The Keepers we've seen so far usually have a one-on-one relationship with their Firsts and its probable that a single Keeper  simply isn't capable of training more then three young mages at one time. So, they give any extra's to a clan that has the opposite problem. Nothing particularly sinister about that right, and that's one of a multitude of rational reasons as to why the Dalish might decide to put limits, besides "to many mages will bring evil demons to the clan". 

[Insaner Robot]

There are actually at least two examples in Inquisition.

 

Dalish in the Bull's chargers was also abandoned by her clan.

[Kinsz]

There are actually at least two examples in Inquisition.

 

Dalish in the Bull's chargers was also abandoned by her clan.

Lol you mean the one that swears she is not a mage.

[Addai]

Also, I never got the impression that the Dalish were a true mageocracy. Yes, Keepers did have positions of leadership in the clan, but so do Hahrens, warleaders and hearth mistresses. I would imagine that depending on what problem the clan was facing decision-making on how to handle that problem would fall to whoever's role best fit it. Speaking of the Keepers can you really condemn some of the Dalish for being "stupid evil" for having a limit to how many mages they have. The reason why they do that in some cases may just be pragmatism then anything resembling mean-spirited prejudice. The Keepers we've seen so far usually have a one-on-one relationship with their Firsts and its probable that a single Keeper  simply isn't capable of training more then three young mages at one time. So, they give any extra's to a clan that has the opposite problem. Nothing particularly sinister about that right, and that's one of a multitude of rational reasons as to why the Dalish might decide to put limits, besides "to many mages will bring evil demons to the clan". 

If you send your mages out to die, of course you're not going to have enough mages to train others.

 

I'm still not hearing a good rationale for this. If the devs speak to it then I'd consider what they have to say and maybe change my mind, but as it is I don't get it. I do admit there's precedent- the Grey Wardens, who supposedly only kept one or two mages per unit outside Blights. And then Duncan was scrambling to get more. It didn't make any more sense to me when they said it, either. They at least have an excuse in that they have to work with the Chantry.

[Patchwork]

There are actually at least two examples in Inquisition.

 

Dalish in the Bull's chargers was also abandoned by her clan.

 

I didn't get the impression she was abandoned so much as she left because the mage quota was already filled. Sending fully trained, adult mages (and she is an adult because she has vallaslin) out into the world is a lot different from what happened with Minaeve. 

[TheTurtle]

There are actually at least two examples in Inquisition.

Dalish in the Bull's chargers was also abandoned by her clan.

It's a Bow!

[ComedicSociopathy]

If you send your mages out to die, you're not going to have enough mages to train young mages.

 

Like I said, not every clan does that so we really can't condemn the whole for actions of a possible few.  

[Colonelkillabee]

If you send your mages out to die, of course you're not going to have enough mages to train others.

 

I'm still not hearing a good rationale for this. If the devs speak to it then I'd consider what they have to say and maybe change my mind, but as it is I don't get it. I do admit there's precedent- the Grey Wardens, who supposedly only kept one or two mages per unit outside Blights. And then Duncan was scrambling to get more. It didn't make any more sense to me when they said it, either. They at least have an excuse in that they have to work with the Chantry.

I don't think that's a good excuse with their blood magic. They hide it of course, but it's clear they don't much care what the chantry thinks, they'll get their soldiers via conscription regardless.

 

The logic is rather simple, more mages = more chances for chaos. Even without demons, strategically, you can't have a bunch of guys flinging fireballs everywhere. Friendly fire. Literally.

 

And ignoring that, they can't effectively watch out for the mages in case something goes south while they're delving into powerful magics if they have too many per unit. Wardens doing this makes even more sense than the Dalish.

[Lady Artifice]

Hey, it looks like you guys saved the thread from imminent lockdown.

 

Good on you. 

[LobselVith8]

Sorry, that was probably too subtle a forum joke for the internet.

Lobsel has a long history of equating religious freedom for elves with being free to practice Dalish religion without Andrastian religious intolerance. He has, for many years, been utterly silent on the question of the religious freedom of elves to be Andrastian, whether in the Dales or elsewhere. When he doesn't dodge the question entirely, he generally repeats the samesort of platitude I just gave about religious freedom for elves to practice Dalish religion safe from Andrastian oppression.

Actually, I've addressed that a hypothetical elven homeland could have come about through Dalish, Andrastian, and Qunari elves working together, where no ideology or religion would be imposed on anyone. It's something I've mentioned for years. My ideas were even the basis for Sir JK's interactive thread about an autonomous kingdom for the Dales, where a diverse group of elves from different backgrounds came to live together.

When/if he brings up a Taliban comparison I made in the past, it basically derived from noting that that partial definition of religious freedom ('the freedom to practice X religion') is actually used by notorious religious identity groups who are anathema to actual religious freedoms because the freedom to practie X does not mean the freedom to practice Y, or not practice at all.

It was an asinine comparison of little substance intended to provoke people; I think most of us who actually read your post are aware of that.

(The Taliban allusion came from an unflattering listing of comparing xenophobic religious tribes with a closely-hold history of past grievances... and the Dalish. Lobsel never actually addressed the substance of the comparison, but instead likes to bring up from time to time as something utterly impossible.)

I provided a retort to the comparison when I returned to the forums months later (after I had been gone for a few months), and instead of addressing my points, you hurled insults at me. You also seem to have something of an obsession with me these days, considering how you seem to consistently bring me up in your posts, even when I'm not participating in the threads.

[herkles]

hey LobselVith8, 

 

I am curious what you think of my idea of a hypothetical Arlathan Chantry, seperate from either the Imperial chantry of Tevinter or the Andrastian Chantry of Orlais. This idea is also a reinterpetation of who Andraste is and what she was fighting for. The idea here is that she was an elven slave who married Sharitan who was fighting for freedom of the slaves from Tevinter.  She in this re-telling become strong allies with the Alamari tribes, including her friend and companion Mafrath but did betray her but unlike the traditional view was not her husband and his children were not hers.

 

The Arlathan chantry would be an elven chantry; many of the ideas and things for the elves would be incorporated into the customs, rituals and festivals of this Elven chantry. It could take IMO one of two stances on the elvish deities, ie regarding them as servents of the maker, holy angels who help elvenkind on behalf of the maker, just like Andraste did(she would be regarded as one of them in this stance), or the opposite were they are demons or monsters and it is their fault that the elves have been languishing in despair.

 

Thoughts?

[LobselVith8]

Given that losing contact with other clans might suppose more mage children abandonment, I'm not sure I like the idea. If they suceed, that's it. Because we are assuming that outside Thedas there aren't other kingdoms and religions that wouldn't try to crush the funny-looking immigrants.

 

In regards to the other clans, we know Zathrian's clan had more than three mages, so it's not as though it's unprecedented. According to Merrill's codex, it seems other clans follow the tradition of providing mages if one of the clans lacks any mages: "As each generation passes, magic becomes more rare among the Dalish. As the gift dies out, talented children are moved between clans so that every Keeper has a successor, and no clan is in danger of being left without guidance."

 

We also know from Merrill that the templars are a sufficient problem for the clans that it's part of the reason why the Dalish are nomadic in the first place, and one of the primary reasons why the elven mages are cautious about using their magic where templars might see them.

 

And? What's the problem? Also, as it's been mentioned before, don't forget the City Elves. They got their own representative in the Council too.

 

What gave you the impression that I thought it was a problem? You mentioned Dalish and Andrastian humans living in the same city-state with the example of Wycome, and I pointed out that Skyhold is another example under the rule of an elven Inquisitor.

[Maverick_One]

You can argue back and forth all day long but in the end given the facts the answer is no neither are worse than the each other or the Humans, Dwarves, and Qunari.

[Mistic]

If you send your mages out to die, of course you're not going to have enough mages to train others.

 

I'm still not hearing a good rationale for this. If the devs speak to it then I'd consider what they have to say and maybe change my mind, but as it is I don't get it. I do admit there's precedent- the Grey Wardens, who supposedly only kept one or two mages per unit outside Blights. And then Duncan was scrambling to get more. It didn't make any more sense to me when they said it, either. They at least have an excuse in that they have to work with the Chantry.

 

The rationale is very easy: those clans that abandon their mage children put their clans' safety over any benefit to other clans. Let's not forget that the Dalish are not a single unity, and the argument "you're not going to have enough mages to train others" might fall on deaf ears.

 

In regards to the other clans, we know Zathrian's clan had more than three mages, so it's not as though it's unprecedented. According to Merrill's codex, it seems other clans follow the tradition of providing mages if one of the clans lacks any mages: "As each generation passes, magic becomes more rare among the Dalish. As the gift dies out, talented children are moved between clans so that every Keeper has a successor, and no clan is in danger of being left without guidance."

 

That menas that the Lavellan's claim that they give mage children to other clans is true. Nevertheless, it still doesn't mean that other clans don't abandon their mages, since Inquisition provides not only one but two personal examples. What is more in doubt is that the magical number is "three". As you point out, Zathrian's clan was willing to accept even four (even if Aneirin declined the offer).

 

My theory? It depends on the size of the clan. Bigger clans may accept more mages, while smaller clans won't. It makes sense if the reason is safety: the more hunters and warriors you have, the less worried you are about mages going out of control.

 

What gave you the impression that I thought it was a problem? You mentioned Dalish and Andrastian humans living in the same city-state with the example of Wycome, and I pointed out that Skyhold is another example under the rule of an elven Inquisitor.

 

Sorry, my bad, I misunderstood. Truth be told, the Wycome solution is my favourite right now. But maybe it's because the road to it was epic and the outcome was incredibly positive

[Jaeger65]

Ever hear of the beautiful rat theory, when populations get so large...

http://en.m.wikipedi...John_B._Calhoun

Maybe the Dalish, being so close to nature...

Being nomadic, they let the land and animal population recover.

[Dean_the_Young]

Actually, I've addressed that a hypothetical elven homeland could have come about through Dalish, Andrastian, and Qunari elves working together, where no ideology or religion would be imposed on anyone. It's something I've mentioned for years. My ideas were even the basis for Sir JK's interactive thread about an autonomous kingdom for the Dales, where a diverse group of elves from different backgrounds came to live together.
 

 

Actually, most of your hypothetical elven homelands have consistently been under Dalish polity and context, with very vague allowances for what would be considered an aceptable ideology not being 'imposed.' After all, in the past you have considered voluntary missionary activity as an unacceptable 'imposition.'

 

 

It was an asinine comparison of little substance intended to provoke people; I think most of us who actually read your post are aware of that.

 

Again with the 'us.' How many personalities are you carying around?

 

I provided a retort to the comparison when I returned to the forums months later (after I had been gone for a few months), and instead of addressing my points, you hurled insults at me.

 

Lob, you couldn't address the comparison on its own grounds without changing what was being talked about, and you had two months to think of a response before you necroed that thread. Even ignoring your evident ignorance of the Taliban- and I actually don't think worse of you for that, since they are a pretty distant culture- it was, as far as last-word necreos go, an epic fail- and one you persisted in trying to resume with a second necro.

 

 

You also seem to have something of an obsession with me these days, considering how you seem to consistently bring me up in your posts, even when I'm not participating in the threads.

 

 

Except... you were in this thread. In fact, one of your posts in this very thread was the start of that little thread. You were, in fact, part of the topic.

 

As for obsession with you, well... I'd ship you a mirror if I could, because your projection is showing. It's amazing how many people who disagree with me just so happen to be liked by you.

[Dean_the_Young]

*sigh* For the n'th time... For me, at least, it's not anything to do with whether they're benign or not. I always thought the Dalish origin was kind of twee in DAO, with that plucky music in the camp and that... Cammen and Gheyna, ugh. Always wanted them to be darker and wilder. This, though, just makes no sense for them. If I heard they were going mageocracy it would make more sense, given their history. I like lore developments to make sense. None of the arguments put forward on the board move the logic meter, given what else we know of the Dalish, so it's a development in a stupid evil direction as opposed to something more compelling.

 

 

Perhaps the issue is what you consider logical, versus the more objective category of 'things that agree with your point of view.'

 

Well, you're here too, and hanging around the same topics, from what I can see.

 

Indeed- but not raising grievances years after the fact.

 

BSN is a fun hobby to pas the time, but my hobby isn't to raise the same sort of grievances years after the fact.

[Colonelkillabee]

Perhaps the issue is what you consider logical, versus the more objective category of 'things that agree with your point of view.'

 

Indeed- but not raising grievances years after the fact.

 

BSN is a fun hobby to pas the time, but my hobby isn't to raise the same sort of grievances years after the fact.

You act as if they're the one doing that and not all these dweebs getting a hard on for picking on elves as if they're worse than the rest of the world.

 

I don't agree with them on this subject, but don't be a snooty douche. Step off your high horse.

[LobselVith8]

Actually, most of your hypothetical elven homelands have consistently been under Dalish polity and context, with very vague allowances for what would be considered an aceptable ideology not being 'imposed.' After all, in the past you have considered voluntary missionary activity as an unacceptable 'imposition.'

 

By 'most', you mean none, since I addressed an autonomous elven kingdom could be run by Dalish, Andrastian, and Qunari leaders representing each faction. Of course, that would have necessitated you actually reading my posts, and not simply pretending that you had.

 

Again with the 'us.' How many personalities are you carying around?

 

Considering that even EmperorSahlertz called you out on your crap the other day, I don't know who you think you're fooling.

 

Lob, you couldn't address the comparison on its own grounds without changing what was being talked about, and you had two months to think of a response before you necroed that thread. Even ignoring your evident ignorance of the Taliban- and I actually don't think worse of you for that, since they are a pretty distant culture- it was, as far as last-word necreos go, an epic fail- and one you persisted in trying to resume with a second necro.

 

I pointed out that the comparison was disingenuous because the Taliban are a religiously extremist off-shoot of a culture that in and of itself disowns them as perverting the practice of Islam itself through terrorism, while the Dalish are a culture unto themselves, the fragments of the broken kingdom of the Dales.

 

You also leave out the simple fact that I was gone from BSN for those months, and I don't see how a 'last word' is possible in a public forum; the concept doesn't really make any sense when anyone can participate in a public forum. You also had the chance to reply (thereby providing how erroneous your 'last word' claim is), and instead of addressing any of my points, you decided to hurl insults at me for entire pages.

 

Except... you were in this thread. In fact, one of your posts in this very thread was the start of that little thread. You were, in fact, part of the topic.

 

As for obsession with you, well... I'd ship you a mirror if I could, because your projection is showing. It's amazing how many people who disagree with me just so happen to be liked by you.

 

While I haven't been in others where you mentioned me, where you said you a codex entry reminded you of me, and where you invoked my name more than once.

[EmissaryofLies]

You can argue back and forth all day long but in the end given the facts the answer is no neither are worse than the each other or the Humans, Dwarves, and Qunari.

 

The Elves as a whole seem "worse" than the other races. Dwarves bring Lyrium and their famous armory, Humans bring stability and keep Thedas from swallowing itself, the Qunari give purpose where there once was none. What do the elves bring to the table? What about their existence benefits the Dragon Age universe? Ancient technology, most of which they do not possess let alone understand? Most of which has been used for great evil and very little good? Being poor and getting purged for rioting? 

 

It's their main problem; they contribute nothing while consorting with demons, hating humans and otherwise making life difficult for whatever region they happen to camp in. All this based on the premise of the shemlen and being oppressed, much of which is of their ancestors' fault.

 

It is a prevailing theme and it makes it that much easier to write the Dalish in particular as villainous, hostile, and/or cold and uncaring. 

[Dean_the_Young]

If having four mages instead of three poses an existential risk to your clan, then you'd better think about having none. If you're a logical individual.

 

There's nothing logical about that. In fact, there's an illogical unfounded assumption imbedded in that- that if you couldn't handle four, you couldn't handle three. If your assessment is otherwise, however, logic would dictate that four might be a limit but 0 is not required.

 

I get what the writers are doing. Magic is a necessary evil, blah blah. I don't have to respect the hypocrisies involved in the actual practice of carrying out those priorities.

 

 

It's not a hypocrisy. There is no Dalish standard of 'we need all the magics possible, no matter the risk.'
 

I don't know why we're talking about this, so I don't really have anything to say.

 

You claimed that Solas is excused from providing ideas of better systems because he doesn't have his god mojo back. I saw no necessary correlation between greater magical powers and presenting ideas.
 

 

Or because you wish to exploit the riches and power that the "disease" brings you. Again, I understand the rationale, but the pandemic is one largely brought about by attempts to cure it. It's like putting those high risk people in ebola hot zones deliberately and then telling yourself they died off because there was just no way to do it any differently.

 

 

That's weak on multiple accounts. For one, the Chantry doesn't exploit the power of the disease, or the magi having it- mages aren't forced to work. Nor is anyone deliberately making people have magic or being mages- the latent disease exists regardless.

 

Third, the threat of abominations is not a threat that exists solely because people are afraid of abominations. If it were, abominations would never have existed because no one would have known to be afraid of them. This is a chicken and egg delimma that has a definitive start- people are afraid of magic because it is dangerous. Whether their fear is a meaningful catalyst for increasing the danger or not, the danger would exist regardless.
 

The reality they face is that their population is dying off, especially the mages, and they're apparently killing off the very people they consider valuable enough that they have to be traded around. If that sort of "logic" works for you, okay then.

 

 

 

Again with the misunderstanding of logic (and facts).

 

The Dalish aren't facing a demographic crisis in the conventional sort- and certainly not of the kind that one or two mages a generation a clan are needed as breeding stock. If a demographic collapse were that desperate, there would be far simpler, and far more effective, ways to boost the population than refusing the occassional mage exile. There are tens of thousands of city elves in slums, as well as basic ways to increase the birth rates of the mundane Dalish that run from the mundane to morally dubious. If raw numbers were the issue, then refusing to exile wouldn't be a solution. It wouldn't even be a meaningful contributor to the solution.

 

What the Dalish are endangered by isn't demographic collapse, but piecemeal destruction. Clans are relatively small- not in terms of being unable to sustain their own populations, but in that any given clan could be wiped out by a catastrophe. An attack by humans, a natural disaster, sickness... or an abomination.

 

Managing these risks is what Dalish clan policies are all about. These are inherent dangers to the nomadic tribal model, and they can not be completely eliminated. Humans can't be destroyed by the Dalish, nature doesn't care and can't be appeased, and magic will come in naturally (and abominations could come from outside the clan).

 

Dalish policy is based on risk mitigation- lowering unavoidable threats to acceptable levels. For humans, this generally means avoidance and retreat. For nature, they use scouts and care. And for mages... they tolerate what they think they can withstand, so that they can benefit how they can within that boundary.

 

That is logical.

 

 

(What's also logical is accepting the inherent dangers of the tribal model. The Dalish frame of reference is the total failure of the unified kingdom model. Clans may be lost one at a time, but the Dalish culture can survive that. A single kingdom would be all the eggs in one basket, and all the eggs endangered at once.)

[Addai]

It's not a hypocrisy. There is no Dalish standard of 'we need all the magics possible, no matter the risk.'

They want to be ruled by mages but also treat them as disposable. They want to return to the old ways, but are pretending they're Andrastians when it comes to magic. They lament dwindling numbers of mages but force their own young mages out. If you don't see the hypocrisy there, it's because you don't want to see it, which is pretty much how most of these discussions go.
 

You claimed that Solas is excused from providing ideas of better systems because he doesn't have his god mojo back. I saw no necessary correlation between greater magical powers and presenting ideas.

He has plenty of dialogue about what he thinks would make the world better. I still don't see why it's at all relevant. He's not Dalish.
 

That's weak on multiple accounts. For one, the Chantry doesn't exploit the power of the disease, or the magi having it- mages aren't forced to work. Nor is anyone deliberately making people have magic or being mages- the latent disease exists regardless.

Oho, they most certainly do. They aren't forcing people to become mages (no need to state the obvious), but their system is set up to ensure that they're the only ones who benefit from magic's use. Mages are forced to live in the Tower where only the Chantry can dispose of their gifts. The Chantry controls lyrium trade, or it did, giving them a monopoly on one of the most powerful substances in Thedas, ensuring their warriors remain enslaved to them and mages aren't able to access greater power outside their dispensation without turning to blood magic- for which they give themselves sanction to kill them. They force people to become Tranquil which gives them a steady supply of enchanters and worker bees, which is what finances the whole system.

As for risk mitigation, once again, giving up one of your most valuable resources is a pretty good way to ensure you're too weak to combat whatever dangers you face.

This is going around in circles at this point, as these threads generally do.

The Elves as a whole seem "worse" than the other races. Dwarves bring Lyrium and their famous armory, Humans bring stability and keep Thedas from swallowing itself, the Qunari give purpose where there once was none. What do the elves bring to the table? What about their existence benefits the Dragon Age universe? Ancient technology, most of which they do not possess let alone understand? Most of which has been used for great evil and very little good? Being poor and getting purged for rioting?

It's their main problem; they contribute nothing while consorting with demons, hating humans and otherwise making life difficult for whatever region they happen to camp in. All this based on the premise of the shemlen and being oppressed, much of which is of their ancestors' fault.

It is a prevailing theme and it makes it that much easier to write the Dalish in particular as villainous, hostile, and/or cold and uncaring.

Oh, come on. Most of the magic in DAI is of elven origin. Even Tevinter's, assuming you believe those stories. They contribute manipulating the Veil- for good or ill. Plus, they don't have to justify their existence any more or less than anyone else. I could ask what humans contribute to Thedas, since assuming they're the only ones who can govern is a pretty bigoted statement. And the Qunari can keep their "purpose."

[Dean_the_Young]

By 'most', you mean none, since I addressed an autonomous elven kingdom could be run by Dalish, Andrastian, and Qunari leaders representing each faction. Of course, that would have necessitated you actually reading my posts, and not simply pretending that you had.

 

Oh, I did. And I'll point out now what I pointed out then, to not satisfatory reply- your design depended on a pan-elven ideology that doesn't exist.

 

 

Considering that even EmperorSahlertz called you out on your crap the other day, I don't know who you think you're fooling.

 

 

 

No one- nor do I need to. Sahlertz's opinion of me is his own business- but a dismissal of me is not an agreement with you.
 

 

I pointed out that the comparison was disingenuous because the Taliban are a religiously extremist off-shoot of a culture that in and of itself disowns them as perverting the practice of Islam itself through terrorism, while the Dalish are a culture unto themselves, the fragments of the broken kingdom of the Dales.

 

Yeah, and that's why your argument was weak.

 

First, it was historically weak. The Taliban aren't an off-shoot of a culture that disavows them- there is no unified polity or culture of 'global islam' to do so, and the primary groups who think that there is are the same sort of extremists who endorse them. The Taliban are a culture unto themselves, one of the dominant ones in their area. Moreover, they too can trace their history to kingdoms and glories from long long ago. The Pashtun identity (which was effectively intermeshed with the Taliban) traces it's history for centuries.

 

Second, your reclassification were not in any way incompatible with the the basis of comparison. Being a culture unto your own is not incompatible with being disowned by a larger culture. Being descdent from a broken kingdom is not incompatible with perverting cutlure or engaging in terrorism (or, as they like to think of it, resistance).

 

Third, your effort to made an incompatible comparison ignored what the comparison actually was. Comparisons, or at least  good ones, are not absolutes of perfect equivalence. Likewise, they can't be disproven by trying to point out irrelevant differences (such as specifying 'the kingdom of the Dales', or 'the religion of Islam'- 'kingdom' and 'religion' are better, but not critical points to the comparison).

 

It was a response historically ill-informed, that didn't actually counter, and ignored the basis of what I did provide. And it was two months late to boot.
 

 

You also leave out the simple fact that I was gone from BSN for those months, and I don't see how a 'last word' is possible in a public forum; the concept doesn't really make any sense when anyone can participate in a public forum. You also had the chance to reply (thereby providing how erroneous your 'last word' claim is), and instead of addressing any of my points, you decided to hurl insults at me for entire pages.

 

 

 

Being gone from BSN for those months really doesn't validate it. The thread, and the argument within, were gone and dismissed during that time. Were it still relevant to everyone, it would have still been discussed- or raised in a new form. Instead you wanted to resume an argument left behind months prior, rather than simply create a new topic.

 

I showed no respect to your argument because you warranted none. I am generally dismissive of necros done for the sake of counter-arguments, and you didn't even have the virtue to being able to produce a particularly good one.
 

 

 

While I haven't been in others where you mentioned me, where you said you a codex entry reminded you of me, and where you invoked my name more than once.

 

 

 

So, if we go across the last year or more, on topics that you are a well-known participant with strong and repeated views, you cross my mind in idle banter with others on the topic.

 

Got it. Totally obsessed. Next you'll suggest I go through your profile to find people who disagree with you, just so that I can like their posts.

[LobselVith8]

hey LobselVith8, 

 

I am curious what you think of my idea of a hypothetical Arlathan Chantry, seperate from either the Imperial chantry of Tevinter or the Andrastian Chantry of Orlais. This idea is also a reinterpetation of who Andraste is and what she was fighting for. The idea here is that she was an elven slave who married Sharitan who was fighting for freedom of the slaves from Tevinter.  She in this re-telling become strong allies with the Alamari tribes, including her friend and companion Mafrath but did betray her but unlike the traditional view was not her husband and his children were not hers.

 

The Arlathan chantry would be an elven chantry; many of the ideas and things for the elves would be incorporated into the customs, rituals and festivals of this Elven chantry. It could take IMO one of two stances on the elvish deities, ie regarding them as servents of the maker, holy angels who help elvenkind on behalf of the maker, just like Andraste did(she would be regarded as one of them in this stance), or the opposite were they are demons or monsters and it is their fault that the elves have been languishing in despair.

 

Thoughts?

 

I've admittedly never been a fan of the Chantry of Andraste, so it's simply not something I'm personally invested in, whether it's the Orlesian Chantry or it's Tevinter counterpart. It's an interesting idea, nevertheless. I suppose an elven Chantry could rise up in Thedas under the right conditions, perhaps in a predominantly elven area.

 

Honestly, Faerunner might be a better person to ask about this concept; she's a very intelligent person, and interested in city elf culture, so she could give you another perspective when she returns from her sabbatical from BSN.