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Are the Dalish elves way worse then the city elves?


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#351
LobselVith8

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Not saying they should storm all the alienages in Thedas and "free" all the oppressed elves in everywhere ever.

But we could start with not treating city elves as lesser and not calling them flat-ears and acting all high and mighty?


Like Merrill, who says the plight of the Andrastian elves matters? Like Clan Lavellan, who think the elves of Wycome deserve to be protected, even at the cost of their own lives?

Let's try to remember we're talking about an ethnic group of varied people here.

Did you hear Merrill's banter with Fenris? In the beginning she speaks to Fenris like he was a child who should be in awe he's in the presence of one of the Dalish.


I remember Fenris treated Merrill like crap for several years, twisted everything she said, and how belligerent he was towards her despite how friendly she was to him, and that she argued how the plight of the Andrastian elves mattered.

Also, have you read The Masked Empire? The Dalish clan in that doesn't want to help Briala or the city elves for no other reason that they are city elves. I get that not all the clans are the same, but I have to agree with Fenris: "the smug sence of superiority" is kinda strong with the Dalish.


One clan doesn't condemn an entire ethnic group of men, women, and children who live across Thedas.

And, like I said in my post, the real fault lies with the human nobility anyway.


There are certainly issues with Andrastian siciety.
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#352
Master Warder Z_

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Perhaps flooding? Get as many unwashed mercenary human types as you can and lock them in a room together.


That's either going to lead to an orgy or a mass murder.
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#353
MissOuJ

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Like Merrill, who says the plight of the Andrastian elves matters? Like Clan Lavellan, who think the elves of Wycome deserve to be protected, even at the cost of their own lives?

Let's try to remember we're talking about an ethnic group of varied people here.

 

This doesn't change the fact that the Dalish culture is based on the idea of them being the "last true elves" - it even says so in the Oath of the Dales.

 

 

I remember Fenris treated Merrill like crap for several years, twisted everything she said, and how belligerent he was towards her despite how friendly she was to him, and that she argued how the plight of the Andrastian elves mattered.

 

Whether or not she was firendly is one thing (I personally found her more condecending than anything, but YMMV) but yes, mostly Fenris was pretty awful to her: but not because she was Dalish, but because she was a mage - and a blood mage at that. Fenris' issues with magic are another thing altogether (and one of the reason I'm not his biggest fan, but at least he has a pretty good reason).

 

But Merrill herself confesses at one point that the Dalish have always said that they're the only true elves. Again, even the Oath of the Dales says "we're the last of the Elvhenan"! The general sentiment is pretty strong there

 

 

One clan doesn't condemn an entire ethnic group of men, women, and children who live across Thedas.

 

But Merrill's and clan Lavellan's opinions absolve the whole culture?

 

 

 

There are certainly issues with Andrastian society.

 

Yes. And my point is that by seeing the city elves as lesser, and by obsessively clinging onto this idea of elven purity and true "elf-dom", the Dalish are doing themselves a disservice and isolating themselves from a potential ally. I'm not saying the Dalish should become The Great Elven Liberation Movement, I'm just saying that their ire towards the city elves is displaced and (some of ) their (clans') refusal to cooperate with city elves because "they're not real elves" is just not very smart, and it reflects the superiority complex some of the Dalish clans seem to wilfully cultivate in their culture.

 

Again, I have much sympathy for the Dalish - their life isn't easy, by any means - but the way they / some of their clans / their culture treat the other elves is really repugnant IMO. Again, in the end, the humans are so much worse, and their common enemy. All in all, the way the Dalish generally behave towards the city elves (not just the occasional dislike, but the actual physical isolationism) has created perfect conditions for the humans to "divide and conquer", which serves no elf, Dalish or otherwise.



#354
Addai

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But what's alternative about their perspectives? Solas and Sera do not seem too far from picking up pitchforks and running the Dalish off their lands themselves. Bit of an exaggeration there but the theme remains nearly identical; " the Dalish? **** em."

 

I am happy that you like it though; I wish I felt the same.

We had a Dalish companion in DA2, and you can potentially play a Dalish PC which would give you natural sympathy. Plus I think the writers try to counter a natural empathy for the underdog the same way they try to counter a natural inclination towards freedom by making templars seem sympathetic. Wouldn't it be both boring and unrealistic if every elf companion had the same outlook and experiences?

 

Solas is not that negative, by the way. He tried to approach the Dalish to "share knowledge" and they ran him off. Sera's problems are not really with the Dalish, she's just extremely insecure.

 

I'm sure the writers do have their biases and personal favorites, but I think after DAI it'd be hard to argue they're anti-elf. I'm surprised at how the elven lore took center stage as much as it did.

 

As for people disliking the Dalish for being arrogant... that arrogance has been part of what's kept them alive and intact. If they were willing to compromise with Andrastianism, there would be no Dalish elves, and no elven counterculture, because their distinctiveness would have been suppressed and erased until no one even remembered that it existed. It's a defense mechanism that doesn't always serve them well, but I think it's hard to argue that the city elves' bowing and scraping is better.


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#355
LobselVith8

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This doesn't change the fact that the Dalish culture is based on the idea of them being the "last true elves" - it even says so in the Oath of the Dales.


It doesn't say last true elves in the oath. The Dalish are the last remnants of the Dales who try to maintain Elvehanan culture.

Whether or not she was firendly is one thing (I personally found her more condecending than anything, but YMMV) but yes, mostly Fenris was pretty awful to her: but not because she was Dalish, but because she was a mage - and a blood mage at that. Fenris' issues with magic are another thing altogether (and one of the reason I'm not his biggest fan, but at least he has a pretty good reason).


I didn't find any good reason for his deplorable behavior towards her. I'm not going to excuse his actions, or vilify Merrill because of how Fenris twisted her attempts to be friendly into something sinister.

But Merrill herself confesses at one point that the Dalish have always said that they're the only true elves. Again, even the Oath of the Dales says "we're the last of the Elvhenan"! The general sentiment is pretty strong there


Elvehanan was Elvehan civilization, which Arlathan was once part of. The Andrastian elves aren't aiming towards that, since they follow Andrastian culture.

But Merrill's and clan Lavellan's opinions absolve the whole culture?


They address how different the Dalish are, in contrast to the condemnation of an entire ethnic group because of one single clan in TME.

Yes. And my point is that by seeing the city elves as lesser, and by obsessively clinging onto this idea of elven purity and true "elf-dom", the Dalish are doing themselves a disservice and isolating themselves from a potential ally. I'm not saying the Dalish should become The Great Elven Liberation Movement, I'm just saying that their ire towards the city elves is displaced and (some of ) their (clans') refusal to cooperate with city elves because "they're not real elves" is just not very smart, and it reflects the superiority complex some of the Dalish clans seem to wilfully cultivate in their culture.


You're conflating the views held by some Dalish with the views held by all of the People, despite evidence that disproves this being the case (Merrill, Clan Lavellan, ect).

Again, I have much sympathy for the Dalish - their life isn't easy, by any means - but the way they / some of their clans / their culture treat the other elves is really repugnant IMO. Again, in the end, the humans are so much worse, and their common enemy. All in all, the way the Dalish generally behave towards the city elves (not just the occasional dislike, but the actual physical isolationism) has created perfect conditions for the humans to "divide and conquer", which serves no elf, Dalish or otherwise.


You must also think the way some of the city elves view Dalish as "savages" and condemn the elves who live the Alienage as 'flat ears' is horrible as well.
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#356
TheKomandorShepard

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I find it strange that the same people who argue that you can't condemn the Templar Order for the actions of some templars will do precisely that with an ethnic group.

As for "nicest", what about the clan who took in the abandoned human infant who became Aveline the Knight? Or Ariane's clan, who took in an elven Circle mage who wanted sanctuary? Or Clan Lavellan, who will rescue the humans of Wycome and refuse to abandon the Alienage elves when Marcher cities threaten them?

Because you rly can unless pretty much that some templars/people are majority what pretty much is in case of dalish as i said what was nicest clan so far and that says a lot.

 

I don't belive in stuff from legends well because how it turns out we know. Ariane's clan you mean zathrian clan not ariane... isn't pretty much third clan pointed as exception from dalish elves?

 

 

You recall, of course, what led up to Zathrian casting the curse.

1 thing is go after peoples that did it another is pretty much racial hate that make suffer peoples that had nothing to do with what happened to him including his own clan.



#357
Bluto Blutarskyx

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Hmmm.

Let's see- living in a ghetto and being poor in civilization (city elf), but having a chance to make money,

Vs

Living like a low level beast or animal crapping everywhere in the woods.....


Easy choice.

#358
dragonflight288

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Hmmm.

Let's see- living in a ghetto and being poor in civilization (city elf), but having a chance to make money,

Vs

Living like a low level beast or animal crapping everywhere in the woods.....


Easy choice.

 

I can oversimplify things too! Let me see.

 

Hmm. 

 

Living in a ghetto that gets purged whenever a noble wants to blame elves for whatever reason, being forced into arranged marriage by your parents and the hahren, possibly getting killed by a chevalier-in-training, being banned from bearing arms under penalty of death and worrying if your wife, your daughter, your sister may be taken as a plaything to the ruling lord, seen as less a person under the Chantry than the humans, and if you ever think of leaving the alienage to make your own way, you'll be a pariah among your own people, and subject to hate crimes by the racist humans who'll destroy your business and burn your home.

 

vs.

 

Living free in the forest, no master that you don't choose for yourself. Free to worship as you please, trained how to survive beyond most foolish city-folk, trained in weaponry and given armor, and being taught that it's alright to take pride in who you are. 

 

Easy choice. ^_^


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#359
TheKomandorShepard

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Well to be honest dalish elves don't have that bad in fact better than city elves (but here it would depend on clan) after all you are free , family-like treatment and it didn't look like they live in poor conditions when city elves pretty much live in poor conditions , have very few rights and at best you can pray that you will end serving noble like cousland (good luck with that in orlais).

 

Pretty much we can compare dalish origin to city elf origin.



#360
TK514

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I see this discussion is making real progress.


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#361
TheJediSaint

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I see this discussion is making real progress.

Down is a kind of progress.



#362
EmissaryofLies

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We had a Dalish companion in DA2, and you can potentially play a Dalish PC which would give you natural sympathy. Plus I think the writers try to counter a natural empathy for the underdog the same way they try to counter a natural inclination towards freedom by making templars seem sympathetic. Wouldn't it be both boring and unrealistic if every elf companion had the same outlook and experiences?


A Dalish companion that arguably strengthened the negative perception of the ethnicity. The same can be said for Velanna. Fenris doesn't care for them and the pc character is beaten about the head in DA II with "Shemlen" this and "our hunters are watching you" that. With TME and Inquisition, the writers have more than outdone themselves in washing the underdog shine off the Dalish. The perspectives are different but mostly seem to be variations of the same negative tone. They don't get a Giselle or a Justinia.

 

Solas is not that negative, by the way. He tried to approach the Dalish to "share knowledge" and they ran him off. Sera's problems are not really with the Dalish, she's just extremely insecure.

 

He is certainly no fan of them, though it is understandable. Sera hopes that my Dalish Elf is not too "elfy" as well as sh*tting on any knowledge that Solas would share with her in a non-condescending manner. She doesn't respect nor does she like elves as a whole.
 

I'm sure the writers do have their biases and personal favorites, but I think after DAI it'd be hard to argue they're anti-elf. I'm surprised at how the elven lore took center stage as much as it did.


I suppose it is the way in which you see it. I saw a complete destruction of an identity made worse by the fact that it's their own fault. If there had been a shred of good in these revelations I'd agree.
 

As for people disliking the Dalish for being arrogant... that arrogance has been part of what's kept them alive and intact. If they were willing to compromise with Andrastianism, there would be no Dalish elves, and no elven counterculture, because their distinctiveness would have been suppressed and erased until no one even remembered that it existed. It's a defense mechanism that doesn't always serve them well, but I think it's hard to argue that the city elves' bowing and scraping is better.


They can be proud without being arrogant. The Dalish could spin their identity differently to the City Elves but instead choose to mock them by claiming to be "true elves". It's unintentionally condescending at best, and arrogantly rude at worst.

 

The city elves work every angle and even riot if a situation calls for it. Between being purged like a virus and told that you're not really an elf, I can hardly blame some of them for remaining at their station.

 

But Briala might have just changed all of that.



#363
MissOuJ

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It doesn't say last true elves in the oath. The Dalish are the last remnants of the Dales who try to maintain Elvehanan culture.

Elvehanan was Elvehan civilization, which Arlathan was once part of. The Andrastian elves aren't aiming towards that, since they follow Andrastian culture.

 

Then why does Merrill say that the Dalish have always said "we're the only true elves" and that's why she didn't even really pay attention to the elves in the Kirkwall alienage, although she lived there for years? Why does she call Feynriel a "half-breed" and wonders if the Keeper will accept him into the clan? Why do some of the Dalish elves and their clans treat the city elves as lesser?

 


You're conflating the views held by some Dalish with the views held by all of the People, despite evidence that disproves this being the case (Merrill, Clan Lavellan, ect).

 

... Which is the exact opposite I'm doing, since I've been speaking about "some of the clans".

 

Again, these opinions exist in the Dalish culture - and from what I've seen, they aren't all that rare, either. The point being that they have defined their culture this way and come up with insults to reinforce this divide (again, the very existence of the slur knife-ear is kinda testament to th). It's true that religion might be one dividing factor, but then again Pol was allowed to join Merrill's clan and he converted - what is to say the Alienage elves wouldn't do the same? And even if they did want to keep their Andrastian religion, so what? Should inclusion to a society come with a forced conversion?

 


You must also think the way some of the city elves view Dalish as "savages" and condemn the elves who live the Alienage as 'flat ears' is horrible as well.

 

The difference here is that the city elves have no power inside the society they live in and don't wilfully define it the same way the Dalish do. The humans are the ones who are spreading the rumours about the Dalish as blood-ritual-inducing, baby-stealing and murdering savages, because having elves running away from the Alienages to join the Dalish is the last thing they want or need. So the city elves have a very one-sided view of the Dalish not because they chose to or because they view their existence as some sort of failure of "elven-hood", but because all they hear about the Dalish is the humans' propaganda, and they hear very few dissenting views on the issue.

 

The Dalish clans that choose not to give aid or accept "flat-ears" and who keep telling their fellow Dalish that they "are the only true elves" actively create and reinforce this view of the lesser nature of the city elves by their own volition. That's a completely different matter.

 

Again, the Dalish have it rough, and the elves in general are kinda screwed all over Thedas, which sucks. I feel for the Dalish, I really do. But if punching down is a way some of the members of your culture use to uphold you culture, something is very wrong - particularly since these attitudes keep popping up constantly in the games and in the books.



#364
Kulyok

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By the way, it's really ironic how Briala&Co kept mocking stupid Dalish elves half of the book (summoned a demon, summoned a demon, boo! Okay, let the demon kill all of you!) and then gleefully proceeded to divide the spoils from the said summoning (casually excluding the last member of that Dalish clan).

 

I do like Briala, but unfortunately, her attitude towards the Dalish, that "you should care(give your resources, and possibly your lives) for those people" doesn't sit with me at all. Briala cares for the city elves, yes, but why should the Dalish? Why should I, for that matter? Why should the reader?

 

(And I couldn't quite get over Briala killing helpless Lienne. I understand it's the Game and whatnot and the author really must hate that type of person that symbolizes the oppression of the nobles, but ugh. All I felt was disgust. I thought that was sick and overdone - honestly, I wanted to attack Briala after I saw that. I think the same goes for "bad Dalish elves, bad Dalish elves!" hammered into our heads. When they overdo it, I got to side with the vilified party.)


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#365
TheJediSaint

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By the way, it's really ironic how Briala&Co kept mocking stupid Dalish elves half of the book (summoned a demon, summoned a demon, boo! Okay, let the demon kill all of you!) and then gleefully proceeded to divide the spoils from the said summoning (casually excluding the last member of that Dalish clan).

 

I do like Briala, but unfortunately, her attitude towards the Dalish, that "you should care(give your resources, and possibly your lives) for those people" doesn't sit with me at all. Briala cares for the city elves, yes, but why should the Dalish? Why should I, for that matter? Why should the reader?

 

(And I couldn't quite get over Briala killing helpless Lienne. I understand it's the Game and whatnot and the author really must hate that type of person that symbolizes the oppression of the nobles, but ugh. All I felt was disgust. I thought that was sick and overdone - honestly, I wanted to attack Briala after I saw that. I think the same goes for "bad Dalish elves, bad Dalish elves!" hammered into our heads. When they overdo it, I got to side with the vilified party.)

You do realize that every main character in TME, except Ser Michel, was a villian protagonists, right?


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#366
Kulyok

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You do realize that every main character in TME, except Ser Michel, was a villian protagonists, right?

 

Ser Michel was a villain protagonist times two! The thing is, Felassan, Celene and Gaspard killed nameless people. Briala killed a sympathetic character.



#367
errantknight

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How was Ser Michel a villain protagonist? It's made clear that anytime he says something unpleasant, it's his cover for what he fears will be exposed, not a belief, and he behaves with scrupulous honor throughout.

I wouldn't worry too much about any perception that characters make identifiable groups look bad. There isn't a group in the game who doesn't look bad, although Fereldans probably come off slightly better than most.

#368
helpthisguyplease

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I tell this again and again the city elves fought and they will fight their opressors look at Denerim alienages and Halamshiral they fought but lost. But that is backbone the guts to fight for your freedom as slaves did in all of our grand history and succeded only once but guess what that does not makes the without a backbone that makes them people that most of us are not and that is brave.



#369
Addai

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The Dalish clans that choose not to give aid or accept "flat-ears" and who keep telling their fellow Dalish that they "are the only true elves" actively create and reinforce this view of the lesser nature of the city elves by their own volition. That's a completely different matter.
 
Again, the Dalish have it rough, and the elves in general are kinda screwed all over Thedas, which sucks. I feel for the Dalish, I really do. But if punching down is a way some of the members of your culture use to uphold you culture, something is very wrong - particularly since these attitudes keep popping up constantly in the games and in the books.

I think you're wanting it both ways. Lanaya asks the Warden what it's like for elves that live in human cities and seems genuinely unable to picture it. There's not a lot of mutual cultural understanding. The assumption around here seems to be that the Dalish can change this fact, when that's a naive view. They can barely survive on their own. The unfamiliarity and the fact that they see city elves as weak at best and collaborators at worst contribute. Generally societies have not been kind to those they perceive as traitors- even less so than to outside enemies.
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#370
Dean_the_Young

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I see this discussion is making real progress.

 

You mean it got better after I left for Christmas?

 

Sweet! This should be fun to read.



#371
herkles

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as I did the temple of mythal quest today, a random war cry made me think. It was a city elf archer, because I placed Briala in charge as a puppet-master over Gaspard. anyways this city elf cried "for the dales" then I was reminded of the alianage tree, the Vhenadahl, which is a reminder of Arlathan, at least that is the symbolism. Just found this interestng to mule over.



#372
herkles

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as I did the temple of mythal quest today, a random war cry made me think. It was a city elf archer, because I placed Briala in charge as a puppet-master over Gaspard. anyways this city elf cried "for the dales" then I was reminded of the alianage tree, the Vhenadahl, which is a reminder of Arlathan, at least that is the symbolism. Just found this interestng to mule over.



#373
dragonflight288

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How was Ser Michel a villain protagonist? It's made clear that anytime he says something unpleasant, it's his cover for what he fears will be exposed, not a belief, and he behaves with scrupulous honor throughout.

I wouldn't worry too much about any perception that characters make identifiable groups look bad. There isn't a group in the game who doesn't look bad, although Fereldans probably come off slightly better than most.

 

He abandons his own heritage and willingly kills unarmed civilians in the dead of night in order to prove himself to become a chevalier. 

 

He has a code of honor, but it doesn't stop him from killing unarmed civilians if it means advancing himself among humans. He's a likeable guy, and he sticks to his code of honor like butter on bread, but he's willing to get his hands quite dirty to be accepted. 


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#374
LobselVith8

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Then why does Merrill say that the Dalish have always said "we're the only true elves" and that's why she didn't even really pay attention to the elves in the Kirkwall alienage, although she lived there for years? Why does she call Feynriel a "half-breed" and wonders if the Keeper will accept him into the clan? Why do some of the Dalish elves and their clans treat the city elves as lesser?

 

Merrill never claims that the Kirkwall elves aren't true elves. Merrill refers to them as elves in Act I; she laments that Tevinter elves don't try to escape from slavery to find sanctuary with the Dalish. "But if they ran away, the Dalish would help them." She also thinks Kelder should die to protect the elven children who he has been murdering with near impunity. She argues with Fenris in Act II that he should care about their plight (and even refers to them as "our people" in the conversation with him), because their situation matters.

 

As for Feynriel, Merrill supports Hawke advising him that he would find sanctuary with the Dalish, and she opposes making him tranquil. She verbally opposes selling his soul to Torpor. There's also the fact that Merrill is willing to enter into a romance with Hawke - a shemlen - despite the fact that some would disapprove of the union, and she knows all their children would be human.

 

Furthermore, after the Andrastian elves were left homeless in the wake of the war, Merrill decided to look after them and take care of them, even if it meant separating from her romantic partner Hawke.

 

That aside, I'm not claiming that all Dalish are the same; I'm pointing out that the way some of them act doesn't reflect on the views, personalities, and attitudes of the other men and women of the People. They are a diverse group of people.

 

... Which is the exact opposite I'm doing, since I've been speaking about "some of the clans".

 

Again, these opinions exist in the Dalish culture - and from what I've seen, they aren't all that rare, either. The point being that they have defined their culture this way and come up with insults to reinforce this divide (again, the very existence of the slur knife-ear is kinda testament to th). It's true that religion might be one dividing factor, but then again Pol was allowed to join Merrill's clan and he converted - what is to say the Alienage elves wouldn't do the same? And even if they did want to keep their Andrastian religion, so what? Should inclusion to a society come with a forced conversion?

 

Being Dalish is a life of hardship; it's not an easy one. There's primarily the factor that Andrastians typically threaten them because of their religion. The Dalish also aren't a pan-elven movement; they are aimed at trying to maintain as much of their culture as possible, and they are religious as well (even the ritual to acquire vallaslin is steeped in meditation on the ways of the People and reflection on the gods).

 

I think a proverbial homeland would be a different matter (hahren Paivel mentions his hope about Dalish and Andrastian elves learning from one another in the Dalish Origin, particularly his notion that Andrastian elves could help the Dalish learn to co-exist with humanity), but the Dalish way of life is all about striving to maintain their culture and religious beliefs. It's a voluntary choice to become Dalish or join the clan, as we see with how Zevran's mother, young Zevran, Arianni, and even former Firsts like Velanna and Merrill voluntarily left.

 

The difference here is that the city elves have no power inside the society they live in and don't wilfully define it the same way the Dalish do. The humans are the ones who are spreading the rumours about the Dalish as blood-ritual-inducing, baby-stealing and murdering savages, because having elves running away from the Alienages to join the Dalish is the last thing they want or need. So the city elves have a very one-sided view of the Dalish not because they chose to or because they view their existence as some sort of failure of "elven-hood", but because all they hear about the Dalish is the humans' propaganda, and they hear very few dissenting views on the issue.

 

The Dalish clans that choose not to give aid or accept "flat-ears" and who keep telling their fellow Dalish that they "are the only true elves" actively create and reinforce this view of the lesser nature of the city elves by their own volition. That's a completely different matter.

 

Again, the Dalish have it rough, and the elves in general are kinda screwed all over Thedas, which sucks. I feel for the Dalish, I really do. But if punching down is a way some of the members of your culture use to uphold you culture, something is very wrong - particularly since these attitudes keep popping up constantly in the games and in the books.

 

You do realize that Dalish clans are typically driven off land (as mentioned as early as the Dragon Central days, as well as in the Dalish Origin, and even Clan Lavellan roamed the Free Marches because travelling between the territorial boundaries of the city-states meant that the humans would be less likely to try to attack the clans since it might provoke one of their neighbors). Clan Sabrae also faced threats to convert to the Andrastian faith while they were on Sundermount, which would be an issue.

 

There's also the issue with the templars, who are a threat to the clans. Merrill says templars are part of the reason why the clans are nomadic (and likely the reason why some clans limit their mages to three), and she advises that she's been cautioned to avoid using magic where templars might see. Even Ariane protected her clan from a templar. "The Keeper that leads each clan also further increases tensions with the Chantry. Apprenticed from a young age, Keepers maintain the traditions of elven magic and pass down their knowledge in turn. The Chantry regards all Keepers as apostates, mages who operate outside of the Circle of Magi, but unlike rogue mages from human society who are quickly hunted down by the templar orders, the Keepers are not so easily taken. Pity the templar who takes it into his heart to track the Dalish into the forests, thinking to take the leader of a clan prisoner."

 

Also, I'm a little confused why you bringing up the views held by some people, and why you persist in acting as though this marks something wrong with the entirety of the People. They're an ethnic group; a varied group of men, women, and children with different ideas, perceptions, and views. Even Solas comments on this. It's why Clan Virnehn refused to help the Halamshiral elves, while Clan Lavellan were willing to give their lives in defense of the Wycome elves who were threatened by the impending Marcher humans from the neighboring city-states.


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#375
Steelcan

Steelcan
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oh why did I stop reading this thread


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