376 réponses à ce sujet

[Br3admax]

Isn't this obvious?  They keep a few mages around because some are useful.  The key word being some, rather than all.

 

This is not the 'all or nothing' situation you'd like to present.

 

The Dalish have competitions among the candidates to find the most suitable, and dispose of the rest.  Sometimes that means giving their extras to other clans, such as in the case of Merrill, and sometimes that means banishment.

 

I'm sorry you're bitter that your preferences don't match what the writers want for their world, but you're either going to have to get over it and accept, or move on.

Basically the same reason Andrastian countries keep mages around. They, however, have the resource, Templars, Seekers, etc, to combat magic gone awry on a large scale. The Dalish don't. 

[Addai]

Isn't this obvious?  They keep a few mages around because some are useful.  The key word being some, rather than all.
 
This is not the 'all or nothing' situation you'd like to present.
 
The Dalish have competitions among the candidates to find the most suitable, and dispose of the rest.  Sometimes that means giving their extras to other clans, such as in the case of Merrill, and sometimes that means banishment.
 
I'm sorry you're bitter that your preferences don't match what the writers want for their world, but you're either going to have to get over it and accept, or move on.

As I've explained already, I'm perfectly happy to change my views when a development makes sense. In this case, it doesn't, so I'm stating my opinion as such, and that if this is how things are in the Dalish clans, my opinion of them has lowered considerably. I'm not telling anyone else what their opinion should be or to "move on."

Once again, Merrill wasn't an extra. Did you see any spares running around in the Dalish origin? She was loaned out because they didn't have enough, not because there were too many.

Basically the same reason Andrastian countries keep mages around. They, however, have the resource, Templars, Seekers, etc, to combat magic gone awry on a large scale. The Dalish don't.

Once again... (would people please read the points already made?) mages are perfectly able to use spell negating magic and no templar can come close to what a powerful mage can do against another mage. The templar order is just a way for Andrastians to convince themselves their holy warriors are "pure." The Dalish have apparently absorbed these superstitions.

[EmissaryofLies]

You aren't even trying to make a point anymore, are you?

 

The fact is that just because a completely different BioWare team wrote an extremely illogical plot does not mean that this one has to. Only idiocy demands that. 

 

The point of you ascribing a position to me and ironically calling me out for a Strawman? Didn't mean for that to go over your head, my apologies.

 

Yes, because the time travel plot device is oh so very logical. The Order of Fiery Promise, logical. The Mage Rebellion siding with Tevinter and not one of them doing a damned thing about it....wait for it....Logical. Logic is not the winning choice in Inquisition. 

 

Starchild is just an example of Bioware's capabilities, regardless of team.

[helpthisguyplease]

The point of you ascribing a position to me and ironically calling me out for a Strawman? Didn't mean for that to go over your head, my apologies.

 

Yes, because the time travel plot device is oh so very logical. The Order of Fiery Promise, logical. The Mage Rebellion siding with Tevinter and not one of them doing a damned thing about it....wait for it....Logical. Logic is not the winning choice in Inquisition. 

 

Starchild is just an example of Bioware's capabilities, regardless of team.

 Okay the point and I am proud of it Bioware makes great lore I know that because weak lore  hasn't so much debate. Also why everytime I have topic about many things like who are the best elves to have a nation I get debates about mages can we not talk that about the  fact that some are master archers that could ride Halla like the mongols and take the world and the other one is very good at espionage. Why everything has to be about mages. Also my first risk of closure topic I am proud.

[daveliam]

RISK OF CLOSURE.

 

Omg. Scary new warning tab!

 

I know, right?  Yikes!

[Precursor Meta]

So why does this thread risk closure?

Anyway, I prefer city elves. The Dalish seem to stuck up. They long for their so called glory days that they themselves are misrepresenting.

Or maybe I've just been listening to Sera and Solas for to long.

[raging_monkey]

People hate mages... and elfs so they bottle them both in the same group

[TheJediSaint]

People hate mages... and elfs so they bottle them both in the same group

And then sell the bottles as diet soda.

[Br3admax]

As I've explained already, I'm perfectly happy to change my views when a development makes sense. In this case, it doesn't, so I'm stating my opinion as such, and that if this is how things are in the Dalish clans, my opinion of them has lowered considerably. I'm not telling anyone else what their opinion should be or to "move on."

Except it makes perfect sense."We can't combat magic on a large scale, so we have less mages in the only way possible(without giving mages to the human nations)."

 

 

Once again, Merrill wasn't an extra. Did you see any spares running around in the Dalish origin? She was loaned out because they didn't have enough, not because there were too many.

Another clan had too many, and so Merrill was sent from her family to another clan. I'm not sure why that's so unbelievable or hard to understand. 

 

 

Once again... (would people please read the points already made?) mages are perfectly able to use spell negating magic and no templar can come close to what a powerful mage can do against another mage. The templar order is just a way for Andrastians to convince themselves their holy warriors are "pure." The Dalish have apparently absorbed these superstitions.

It's not about mages fighting mages. It's about everyone else fighting a demon. The first thing an abomination does is seek to create more. It will twist those around it and wreck havoc as it rampages across the countryside. Templars do not combat the magic, they remove it entirely, thus making the demon vulnerable. Mages cannot do this, no matter how adept at spellcasting they become. 

[raging_monkey]

And then sell the bottles as diet soda.

then wonder why they are complained to about "it doesnt taste right"

[errantknight]

In this world, every group does bad things based on their personal view of necessity and safety. There's generally a kernel of truth in their arguments, even if their worldview leads them to go too far. The Dalish are particularly interesting in that the clans are isolated, so they all do things slightly differently. Just because we see some groups doing something, it doesn't mean all do, just as while some templars, wardens, mages or tevinter to things we might disagree with, it doesn't mean all do. Every group is terrible. Every group is noble. They're all just people who are afraid in a dangerous world and want to live.

[helpthisguyplease]

In this world, every group does bad things based on their personal view of necessity and safety. There's generally a kernel of truth in their arguments, even if their worldview leads them to go too far. The Dalish are particularly interesting in that the clans are isolated, so they all do things slightly differently. Just because we see some groups doing something, it doesn't mean all do, just as while some templars, wardens, mages or tevinter to things we might disagree with, it doesn't mean all do. Every group is terrible. Every group is noble. They're all just people who are afraid in a dangerous world and want to live.

I know they are just so mainstream in thinking oh well I am just dissapointed that they are like that. Also happy that so many city elves are not.

[Dabrikishaw]

It looks like discussing the Dalish has become serious business.

[errantknight]

I know they are just so mainstream in thinking oh well I am just dissapointed that they are like that. Also happy that so many city elves are not.

The 'mainstream' exists for a reason--things have happened that make it seem correct and safe. That doesn't mean that it doesn't lead to bad things or that it doesn't go too far, but that pov exists for a reason. Cause and effect isn't always pretty, viable in the long term, or even entirely rational.

[TheJediSaint]

It looks like discussing the Dalish has become serious business.

I like to treat them with the seriousness that they deserve.

[helpthisguyplease]

The 'mainstream' exists for a reason--things have happened that make it seem correct and safe. That doesn't mean that it doesn't lead to bad things or that it doesn't go too far, but that pov exists for a reason. Cause and effect isn't always pretty, viable in the long term, or even entirely rational.

That is why they will disspear unlike the City elves who no matter the cost rebelled and rebelled and rebelled of course they lost everytime but maybe as in real life after a hundreds of years of rebelling one of those rebellions will succeed as it was I real life it was only one but that they managed, you have to respect persistance.

[Kantr]

The whole reason for starting the Circles is to so that there would always be mages around in order to fight the Blight. And the Dalish apparently think mages are important enough that the Keepers are all mages.

 

Going by your logic, why keep any of them around at all?

I thought the idea of the circles was to have somewhere to put mages rather than killing them.

[helpthisguyplease]

Are the Dalish perfect? No. Are they bloodthirsty savages that kidnap babies and drink their blood? No.

 

Is magic dangerous? Yes. Should everyone throw their hands in the air and run in terror every time a mage walks in a room? No.

 

Take a chill pill folks.

They would be like the Astecs or the Inca or the Maya.

[Vit246]

I would say the Dalish are worse.  The city elves do what they can to survive and the Dalish won't lift a finger to help them.  At the same time, the Dalish see themselves as the heralds of their race and see themselves being above ALL races and the city elves.  

 

The joke is really on them because they wear tattoos of slaves.

 

The city elves chose to assimilate to human society by living in segregated ghettos as impoverished second-class citizens (not even citizens) and occasionally as victims of human nobles and pogroms. They're rather more pathetic. And I am sick of people complaining about how "the Dalish won't lift a finger to help them". What the hell exactly do you expect the Dalish to do? Invade the human cities and tear down the alienages? That's suicide. They can only help the City Elves who manage to leave and find and join the Dalish clans which many clans are prepared to accept as members. And you are so over-blowing their sense of superiority. I doubt they have anything against dwarves and qunari. Meanwhile, Andrastian Humans see themselves as being above the Tevinters, the elves, the qunari and any heretics/heathens. Except for the dwarves because its smarter to be politically correct when it comes to dwarves. Even Tevinters are smart enough to do that.

 

And the symbols of the tattoos have changed. They used to be slave markings, now they're symbols of their perseverance. They're not gonna be diminished. The crucifix used to be a torture device, now its a freaking holy icon.

[errantknight]

The city elves chose to assimilate to human society by living in segregated ghettos as impoverished second-class citizens (not even citizens) and occasionally as victims of human nobles and pogroms. They're rather more pathetic. And I am sick of people complaining about how "the Dalish won't lift a finger to help them". What the hell exactly do you expect the Dalish to do? Invade the human cities and tear down the alienages? That's suicide. They can only help the City Elves who manage to leave and find and join the Dalish clans which many clans are prepared to accept as members. And you are so over-blowing their sense of superiority. I doubt they have anything against dwarves and qunari. Meanwhile, Andrastian Humans see themselves as being above the Tevinters, the elves, the qunari and any heretics/heathens. Except for the dwarves because its smarter to be politically correct when it comes to dwarves. Even Tevinters are smart enough to do that.
 
And the symbols of the tattoos have changed. They used to be slave markings, now they're symbols of their perseverance. They're not gonna be diminished. The crucifix used to be a torture device, now its a freaking holy icon.

It strikes me as funny that you think it would be suicide for the dalish to tear down the alienages, but somehow think it's pathetic that the city elves don't.

[helpthisguyplease]

Did I told of the Dalish on Hallas and attacking as horde like the mongols why is it so hard to believe that such a thing can happen, for example the mongols had 100k troops at most when they attacked the first chinese state and defeated it and that state had way more troops and resources then the mongols and still lost and were butchered.

[Vit246]

It strikes me as funny that you think it would be suicide for the dalish to tear down the alienages, but somehow think it's pathetic that the city elves don't.

WHat?

 

I never said the City Elves should tear it down or that its pathetic that they don't. Thats suicide too. Human soldiers would just come in and massacre them. The best they can do is manage to leave and find better lives somewhere somehow.

[Addai]

I thought the idea of the circles was to have somewhere to put mages rather than killing them.

Gaider connected them to defense against the Blight in an interview. Certainly isolating and containing mages was part of it, but I think especially the early Chantry would just as soon have killed them all, since the only magic allowed to be practiced was to light the braziers.

[Br3admax]

Are the Dalish perfect? No. Are they bloodthirsty savages that kidnap babies and drink their blood? No.

 

Is magic dangerous? Yes. Should everyone throw their hands in the air and run in terror every time a mage walks in a room? No.

 

Take a chill pill folks.

Exactly. These are children, we're talking about, however, when magic is at its most dangerous. All aren't strong enough to combat demons while they dream naturally. That's the Dalish logic I see behind this, and it's sound given their lifestyles.