40 réponses à ce sujet

[veramis]

knownastherat, I'm not here to give a college course on reasoning. If you aren't satisfied with the explanation that giving things away for free in a game trivializes the challenge then that's your viewpoint.

[Chi_Mangetsu]

They're not asking for a lecture, Veramis, they're asking for evidence. Is there evidence that ME3MP's Respec cards drove consumers away by having them exist? If so, please provide it. I'm sure people would love to see it.

[Storm_Changer]

They're not asking for a lecture, Veramis, they're asking for evidence. Is there evidence that ME3MP's Respec cards drove consumers away by having them exist? If so, please provide it. I'm sure people would love to see it.

 

Frankly we all know that evidence could only be provided by the devs - and even then - it would be incredibly difficult to know why users lost interest in ME3, or even if it was a singular factor. It's an unfair appeal, as your asking for data that even the devs of the game themselves would not have nor could they themselves gather.

 

Prove why a respec point costing 500 gold which is around 10-15 minutes of play would be in any way a harsh price. If anything that is incredibly cheap. It fits with the current design - which sorry guys - is grinding.  You aren't given weapons, you earn them via gold. You aren't given armour, you earn it via gold and salvaging. You aren't given level 20 characters, you earn them via grinding for exp. That's simply the status quo. 15 minutes at most of grinding is absolutely nothing by comparison,  as it saves the users hours of grinding - it is a convenience. If anything 500 gold may well be too cheap for the time it would save. 

 

To be blunt, if you can't deal with grinding for 15 minutes, DAI:MP is not the game for you. 

[knownastherat]

knownastherat, I'm not here to give a college course on reasoning. If you aren't satisfied with the explanation that giving things away for free in a game trivializes the challenge then that's your viewpoint.

 

That is fine nor am I. Reasoning never proved anything. For that there are empirical studies.

 

Its not about giving things for free, we talk about option to re-distribute ability points and how such option should be implemented. So far I've seen zero evidence supporting claim in favor of "amulet" instead of just "button".

[knownastherat]

Frankly we all know that evidence could only be provided by the devs - and even then - it would be incredibly difficult to know why users lost interest in ME3, or even if it was a singular factor. It's an unfair appeal, as your asking for data that even the devs of the game themselves would not have nor could they themselves gather.

 

Prove why a respec point costing 500 gold which is around 10-15 minutes of play would be in any way a harsh price. If anything that is incredibly cheap. It fits with the current design - which sorry guys - is grinding.  You aren't given weapons, you earn them via gold. You aren't given armour, you earn it via gold and salvaging. You aren't given level 20 characters, you earn them via grinding for exp. That's simply the status quo. 15 minutes at most of grinding is absolutely nothing by comparison,  as it saves the users hours of grinding - it is a convenience. If anything 500 gold may well be too cheap for the time it would save. 

 

To be blunt, if you can't deal with grinding for 15 minutes, DAI:MP is not the game for you. 

 

To be blunt, I do not believe you are qualified to make such call.

 

What you seem to be missing is that you make claim thus the burden of proof in on you. Your claim is "amulet for 500 g". I will leave the pricing aside as that is another story, still your argument seems to rely on mantra: you should earn your respec and that is the way it should be. Fair enough, everyones entiteled to opinion, but I asked for reason - evidence that amulet for cost instead of button for free is needed for objective reasons relating to game play.

[ManRightChea]

The way I see it, is that having the option to respec opens up no extra potential avenues or advantages, so what is the harm? Every build that is possible with respec is possible without. That alone imo is plenty reason is should have been in the game from the beginning. It is the same as ME, you play the game because you enjoy it, but not everyone was obsessed with promotion. Some of us like having our characters at full potential. IMO all the lack of respec does is discourage experimentation, which in a game with 3 maps and 3 enemies is extremely confusing.

[veramis]

They're not asking for a lecture, Veramis, they're asking for evidence. Is there evidence that ME3MP's Respec cards drove consumers away by having them exist? If so, please provide it. I'm sure people would love to see it.

 

When did I ever say that "ME3MP's Respec cards drove consumers away by having them exist?"

 

None of you are making sense btw, goodbye to this thread.

[knownastherat]

The best thing is that this debate will probably not make it where we would like it to ;) btw I do not think there truths to be found, in this case, just consensus. Like with taxing. You can live in Sweden or Monaco. Its not like one is wrong or something.

[Chi_Mangetsu]

When did I ever say that "ME3MP's Respec cards drove consumers away by having them exist?"

It's called "an example". Please do try to use one next time, darling.
 

None of you are making sense btw, goodbye to this thread.

And nothing of value was lost.

[Storm_Changer]

To be blunt, I do not believe you are qualified to make such call.

 

What you seem to be missing is that you make claim thus the burden of proof in on you. Your claim is "amulet for 500 g". I will leave the pricing aside as that is another story, still your argument seems to rely on mantra: you should earn your respec and that is the way it should be. Fair enough, everyones entiteled to opinion, but I asked for reason - evidence that amulet for cost instead of button for free is needed for objective reasons relating to game play.

 

You said respec should be free. I said the whole point of the promotion system is to add replayability to the game - which is a fact -  I did not quantify how much [beyond the few hours it takes to each level 20.] I do not need a source because my point stands to reason alone and was not quantified beyond reason. Unless, of course, you can prove that the promotion system is for something other than replay value. If you can, I'd be quite surprised. 

 

Why SHOULDN'T the respec cost gold? Everything else in MP costs something, and you're asking for a convenience that supersedes something already in the game. Why shouldn't that have a drawback, and what EXACTLY is wrong with 15 minutes of work to acquire it in the first place? If a user isn't willing to grind out 500 gold, chances are this game isn't for them in the first place. 

 

Why, exactly, should respec be an exception to the rule of paying for something. The onus to explain that is on you, as my suggestion works within the framework of the game - not as an exception to it - but yours works as an exception, and therefore would require justification to a greater degree. 

 

I think we all agree a faster form of respec would be nice, though. But why should respec be free with no drawbacks when promotion already exists and has its own drawnbacks? If you want free respec, promote your character and pay the drawback - time. 

[knownastherat]

I am not going to quote the relevant posts, we can figure it out: Why SHOULDN'T the respec cost gold? Is a good question. About as good as the question I asked: Why it SHOULD? The problem is not to make up ad hoc reasons, the problem is to justify the status quo. 

 

So far the reasons are, and correct me if I am wrong:

 

- because people would respec, respec, respec

- because "everything" else costs something

- because its part of progression mechanism?

- because it adds to replayability

- because respec needs to have drawbacks

 

Alright. I read it. I am not convinced and I stated my reasons.

 

---

 

edit: honestly, 500 g is like free to me. I have the stuff I want need and do not open chests lately. So to me, one of many, is just a bother. Go to store - buy - equip - respec. 

[Storm_Changer]

My main contention is that the promotion system has drawbacks - obviously - and benefits - obviously. 

 

The respec system being free would have no drawbacks - obviously - but massive benefits - obviously. 

 

It would undermine the promotion system. So, it has to have drawbacks. What's the easiest way to implement a drawback? Gold. 

 

The benefit to this system is that it isn't RNG - it won't be random from chests - but directly purchasable for a set amount of gold. This means users that want it can buy it directly, users that don't won't have their chests filled with even more junk. 

 

Feel free to point out any flaws in that logic, and i'll go over it with you. Ultimately the reason why it should have a cost is simply because everything else in the MP has a cost, which means in order for it to be somewhat balanced when directly compared it requires a cost too. It doesn't *have* to be gold, but gold is the easiest way, imo, to give it a drawback that users could be satisfied with. 

[knownastherat]

It would undermine the promotion system. Question is if that would be a bad thing. Not sure how many users are actually thrilled with the current state of affairs. I am not really gonna play for +1. Undermine here, however, would translate to "encouraging promotions system by limiting options". Those who want to promote for +1 are free and those who do not care about promoting for +1 .. we are back to "forcing" ;)

 

There are no flaws in your logic as far as I can see. Logic can work with assumptions and opinions. We are on the same boat. Debate can crystallize some issues.

[Angel86]

Well to me Respec should have a price because I like it if it's a reward and not something given freely.

 

I will play, try out builds, promote and try another until I eventually end up with the build I enjoy the most. Stats AND Respecs in the process are a reward in itself. If you take respecs out of that equation, you are taking one of the reasons for promoting.

 

If there is an increased replayability because of this, it's because the player so chooses to replay, not because the game inherently adds replayability. It only adds de option.

 

All of this applies to what a specific type of player considers enjoyment in a game, it may or may not be the same for others. It is for me, so I like the current system.

 

Not that I would dismiss an alternative way of Respec if it comes with an interesting proposal.

[gravemind_z]

Relax, it's coming.  ME3 didn't get respec cards for months.

[MaxCrushmore]

I actually don`t mind rolling over my characters to start again .. kinda fun.

 

There are enough kits in the game that you can always keep a balance of high level kits and kits you are actively leveling ..