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Is the Game of Thrones influence gone from Dragon Age now?


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#26
Vilegrim

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I always thought Dragon Age had more of a "Wheel of Time" influence than a Game of Thrones one.
 
Magic corrupting users? Check.
 
The once pure use of magic / force being corrupted by ancient evil and human hubris? Check.
 
Attacks by evil monsters who are created out of existing creatures? Check.
 
Foreign invaders who are trying to turn the entire world to their philosophy? Check.
 
Acient evil sleeping under the surface? Check.
 
Institutions ruled by bitchy women? Check.
 
etc. etc.


Eve WoT had darker protags than we are allowed to be in inquisition...Rand obliterating hundreds of people with bale fire to kill a single forsaken for instance, or the Aiel in general, or Matrim's battle plan for the final battle, mind you the relief of Tarwins gap was epic in true high fantasy style, and awesome for it.

#27
Vilegrim

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Was this what it was like when Origins came out? Everyone saying how much it took from Game of Thrones?

Magic doesnt corrupt. People choose to corrupt themselves.
Source of magic (the fade) not corrupted
Magic itself is neutral. It's what you do with it that defines if you are using it for good or evil



No, Bioware saying how much A Song of Ice and Fire had influenced them.

#28
Maverick827

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There is a good bit of dark parts that I actually feel can fit right at home in game of thrones.

  • Freemen of the Dales: the main enemy for the emerald graves and exalted plains is IMO right at home in game of thrones. A bunch of deserters, a band like the brotherhood without banners who similarly to the brotherhood become little more then bandits and worse.
  • the whole orlais thing could fit in with kings landing
  • The mayor who drowned the village to save it fits in with a number of characters who did horrible things for good reasons, ie Jamie Lannister.
  • Similarly the Grey wardens
  • the whole ancient elves is rather similar to Brans journey to the children, right down to learning about the magic of the past but leaving just as many questions as answers

Those were just a few of the things that I just got from the top of my head. Now the thing is, that we didn't really see much of the society in Inquistion which is one of my biggest issues. We didn't get t see many towns or villages, the biggest we see is actually Redcliff IMO as Val Royaux isn't as big as it should be. If we saw much more of the society, ie the cities in Fereldan and Orlais. I think the darker aspects would be much more visible or apparent IMO

 

The problem is most of those are presented as side quests and thus don't really have any weight to them.  You can't even talk to the Freemen of the Dales.  They may as well have been called the Freemooks of Mook Forest, and their character models could have been purple nugs.  It wouldn't have changed anything.

 

Obviously the only halfway decent side quest in the game is the Crestwood one, because it was built off of the scraps of the save the village/save the keep choice they showed very early on.  But even then, you talk to the mayor once, figure things out, and then he's gone.  You don't really get to talk to other townsfolk too much about it to really get immersed in that particular story.


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#29
Reymoose

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The problem is most of those are presented as side quests and thus don't really have any weight to them.  You can't even talk to the Freemen of the Dales.  They may as well have been called the Freemooks of Mook Forest, and their character models could have been purple nugs.  It wouldn't have changed anything.

 

Obviously the only halfway decent side quest in the game is the Crestwood one, because it was built off of the scraps of the save the village/save the keep choice they showed very early on.  But even then, you talk to the mayor once, figure things out, and then he's gone.  You don't really get to talk to other townsfolk too much about it to really get immersed in that particular story.

 

Spot on! The first time I went to the Emerald Graves, I was confused, then I met Fairbanks, and went "Wait? Is this supposed to be something important? What? Why? Where's the motivation?" 

 

I mean even including some ancillary characters from DA:O to be in the Freemen or leading them or making the Fairbanks group (I've even forgotten if they have a name or not) the Dalish would've been something. 

 

I imagined the sigh of frustration my Elf Warden from DA:O would have given had he seen the state of the Dalish in DA:I (yay, 2-3 aravels and just under a dozen npc's!).



#30
dsajorje3

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I agree the tone changed but I think this game is about recovery, a lot of the mage, darkspawn, and elf problems are finally addressed by characters and they try to invoke change.



#31
Vilegrim

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Hell the Freemen looked better trained, lead and equipped than any other force their, a bit of creative violence and torture in the command chain, add some bribery and intimidation, and Leliana has a deniable asset in place to break skulls and take scalps.

#32
AsheraII

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For what it's worth, DA:I actually gave me a bigger GoT vibe than either DA:O or DA2. Not in the sense of ripped storylines, but more in the line of complexity, with matching up all those alliances and stuff on the war table. If this were an official GoT game, then that would be the part I think they definitely did right.

For the rest of the game? Nah, not half as much boob for starters. :P



#33
Ogillardetta

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Talk with the surgeon in skyhold and you'll hear some dark things, she really made me think that thedas needs to advance their medical knowledge before they drill to many peoples skulls open and accedently drain too many people of too much blood. I hope they move on from the "four fluids theory" faster than we did.



#34
ArtemisMoons

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Yeah I know, they're called The Grey Wardens, so I am aware that they are there to do what others can't. That's the whole thing that I loved about Origins, because being a Warden let you play as a horrible person if you wanted. It's there with Duncan, Avernus, even your Warden in Origins. You can go to any lengths to defeat The Blight.

 

In Inquisition that wasn't there with the Wardens. Summoning a demon army to search thousands of miles of underground labyrinths to kill the Old Gods isn't "We will go to any lengths to defeat The Blight", it's "We are having a mind fart of epic proportions". Even the Wardens shouldn't do something that incredibly stupid. 

Oh sure, I suppose hearing something that means your life is drawing to an end/ you will transform into a ghastly darkspawn thing wouldn't be enough to make you consider doing whatever necessary to life. It wasn't the first time GREY (feel better?) Wardens have turned to blood magic. The Calling addles their thoughts too, the song of the Archdemon (though in this case is probably more the song of Corphyfish) probably pushed them towards doing something less intelligent.


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#35
herkles

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The problem is most of those are presented as side quests and thus don't really have any weight to them.  You can't even talk to the Freemen of the Dales.  They may as well have been called the Freemooks of Mook Forest, and their character models could have been purple nugs.  It wouldn't have changed anything.

 

Obviously the only halfway decent side quest in the game is the Crestwood one, because it was built off of the scraps of the save the village/save the keep choice they showed very early on.  But even then, you talk to the mayor once, figure things out, and then he's gone.  You don't really get to talk to other townsfolk too much about it to really get immersed in that particular story.

I am not denying that it wasn't implemented as well as I like or that it isn't as dark as I would like, what I am arguing is that the influence is gone, which it isn't. 

 

It could have been handled much better and showing more of Orlaisian society and more urban enviorments and more chances to talk to people would have gone a long way of solving a lot of issues IMO.



#36
Vilegrim

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Talk with the surgeon in skyhold and you'll hear some dark things, she really made me think that thedas needs to advance their medical knowledge before they drill to many peoples skulls open and accedently drain too many people of too much blood. I hope they move on from the "four fluids theory" faster than we did.


Dark would be doing that because it was fun, not because you don't know better.

#37
Vilegrim

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I am not denying that it wasn't implemented as well as I like or that it isn't as dark as I would like, what I am arguing is that the influence is gone, which it isn't. 
 
It could have been handled much better and showing more of Orlaisian society and more urban enviorments and more chances to talk to people would have gone a long way of solving a lot of issues IMO.


As is however they would have been right at home in The Deadmines, dark they weren't.

#38
Ogillardetta

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Dark would be doing that because it was fun, not because you don't know better.

Doing things like lobotomy out of ignorance is still scary. Look at any old hospital for the mentally sick and you'll find some really sick stuff but it was all done because they didn't know better.



#39
Il Divo

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Much as I enjoyed DA:O, it really felt nothing like a Song of Ice and Fire. At least, no more than your typical Bioware experience. 



#40
Giantdeathrobot

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The Winter Palace was lifted right off a GoT episode, with added French accents. You could play quite the Machiavellian kingmaker.

 

Here Lies the Abyss is all about demons and blood magic and the Wardens being assholes.

 

You can make people Tranquil, condemn others to gibbets and lifelong prison (and flat shoes), leave the Chargers to die, make Mages or Templars into your lapdogs, slaughter thousand years old elves because you don't like them, basically enslave Blackwall, accept a deal with a demon, and other things I didn't do yet. The Inquisitor can't go around murdering people for no reason, but apart from that you can be just as big an ******* as the Warden was. 

 

I do agree Inquisition has less creepy stuff, but that's probably because we don't deal much with the Darkspawn who are the main source of squick in the setting. We still had that Warden turn into Cory the hard way.


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#41
Dabrikishaw

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I never thought Origins was Dark Fantasy in the first place, more like traditional High Fantasy with a side-order of rape. It's part of why I like Inquisition so much, to get back to being a High Fantasy affair after ]['s Low Fantasy nonsense.


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#42
Vilegrim

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The Winter Palace was lifted right off a GoT episode, with added French accents. You could play quite the Machiavellian kingmaker.
 
Here Lies the Abyss is all about demons and blood magic and the Wardens being assholes.
 
You can make people Tranquil, condemn others to gibbets and lifelong prison (and flat shoes), leave the Chargers to die, make Mages or Templars into your lapdogs, slaughter thousand years old elves because you don't like them, basically enslave Blackwall, accept a deal with a demon, and other things I didn't do yet. The Inquisitor can't go around murdering people for no reason, but apart from that you can be just as big an ******* as the Warden was. 
 
I do agree Inquisition has less creepy stuff, but that's probably because we don't deal much with the Darkspawn who are the main source of squick in the setting. We still had that Warden turn into Cory the hard way.


Certainly didn't feel anything like that, nothing that gave me the grim satisfaction that evil warden did, or indeed evil bhaal child, or dark side Sith Inquisitor in swtor.

#43
herkles

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Certainly didn't feel anything like that, nothing that gave me the grim satisfaction that evil warden did, or indeed evil bhaal child, or dark side Sith Inquisitor in swtor.

so instead of the dark atmosphere of game thrones you want mustache twirling pscho sadism? 


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#44
Giantdeathrobot

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Certainly didn't feel anything like that, nothing that gave me the grim satisfaction that evil warden did, or indeed evil bhaal child, or dark side Sith Inquisitor in swtor.

 

And I'm happy about that, because evil Bhaalspawn and dark side Empire is boring as sin. All you are is a mustache twirling villain going ''mwahahaha die'' for no reason. No thanks.

 

Evil Warden at least is a bit more nuanced, when you're not murder-knifing passerbys for the lulz at least. The Inquisitor can't be ''evil'' per se and more of an uncaring pragmatist (which you cannot play in, say, BG2). I like that better than being just a puppy-kiccking ******* for its own sake.


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#45
Ashagar

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Song of Fire and Ice? Seriously I heard of people claiming origins of being being a lord of rings knock off not never Song of fire and ice. Its a dark fantasy series not a low fantasy last I checked.



#46
Obadiah

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Look...

Origins was dark. Really Dark. The main character starts off in a really bad place, then moves to a place that is even worse after Ostagar, hunted by the new leader of Ferelden, haunted by nightmares, and was essentially sacrificed as soon as he joined the order of Grey Wardens, when he thought he was being rescued. The artistic direction seemed to be mostly nightmarish: from the hordes of darkspawn, to the festering cancerous looking deep roads and Circle tower, to Denerim burning. DAO wasn't dark in jest, or darkly hilarious, it was just dead serious dark.

Sure, it had its lighter moments, like Sten's cookies (stolen from a fat kid? Really?), and Leliana's song, but they were essentially brief respites in a land turned against the player and going straight to hell.

As much as I thought that overcoming the Blight at the end was just SO supremely awesome, man, who the **** would want to go back and create that kind of story again?
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#47
SwobyJ

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Dark fantasy to light fantasy to whateverthehell (post?) fantasy. That's what I think the trend is and will be.

 

Not that they'll entirely abandon any of this. Bioware never (imo) outright forgets and leaves behind their roots.



#48
Maverick827

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Song of Fire and Ice? Seriously I heard of people claiming origins of being being a lord of rings knock off not never Song of fire and ice. Its a dark fantasy series not a low fantasy last I checked.

 

Origins was actually pretty low fantasy.

 

1.  Mages were more rare in Origins.  This is partially explained by circle mages roaming free and Tevinter forces showing up in the South.  Regardless of how legitimate the reasons, the outcome is that mages are definitely more ordinary and plain now than they were.  

 

It's the difference between how cool Jedi were in the original trilogy, and how kind of trite they were in the prequels.  Yeah, it made sense in the story, but that doesn't mean that it also doesn't have an effect on the viewer.

 

2.  Mages were less powerful.  They couldn't teleport or time travel, they were used simply as walking trebuchets in the battle of Ostagar; obviously more valuable than a random soldier, but were not nearly these potentially unstoppable machines of raw power that DA2 and DAI turned them into to make them a credible threat.

 

3.  Mages were more easily subdued and controlled.  They were just kind of students who could do some tricks for the most part.  I mean, look at our experiences with them in Origins.  We had Jowan, that female mage who was afraid of spiders, other random students, and Irving, who doesn't really do much.  Not the most exciting bunch.  Most of our interactions with mages and magic took place in Boring Hogwarts where things only really got dangerous when demons, not mages themselves, started causing trouble.

 

The exceptions are, of course, Flemeth, Morrigan, and that weird hermit in the Brecillian Forest.  They were the only mages really shown to be something more (and most of the hermit's cred just comes from Morrigan saying he was powerful).

 

4.  There was only one dragon and it was really secluded.

 

5.  Our only real antagonist was just a mortal person playing politics.

 

6.  Demons were rare and mysterious.  I really liked that about Origins.  We had our horde of mooks in the Darkspawn, so demons were our interesting enemies. Having them literally falling from the sky in Inquisition just feels like it's cheapened them, and nothing has really replaced them.

 

7.  Qunari were just dark skinned, tall humans (to everyone who didn't read like one codex or something).  Now they're Draenei without hooves.

 

8.  Orlais, in my opinion, turned out to be too campy.  And if you know me, you'd be shocked that I find something "too" campy.

 

9.  Powerful items were rare.  You'd go through most of the game with rather generic items with a few stats, so when you found a rare, named item, it was special. Now every bandit seems to drop a named two handed sword that triggers some massive attack that shatters the ground 10% of the time

 

10.  Overall, abilities were less flashy.  Rogues didn't teleport, warriors didn't charge forward creating a wind of vortex behind them.  Mages actually got less flashy and less powerful in game play terms, though (except for Knight Enchanter, which has a lightsaber).

 

11.  The color palate was less flashy, though I can't say that I don't like the visuals in this game better.

 

12.  The weapons and armor were also waaaaaaaaay less flashy.  DA2 and DAI are both straddling the JRPG line of over sized weapons and armor

 

13.  We spent more time in drab, medieval locations, because Fereldan.

 

14.  The immediate goal for most of the game is to use treaties to build political alliances, which is a hell of a lot less fantasy than "close a hole in the sky that demons are falling out of."  Sure, we were getting the treaties to fight Sauron and his orc army, essentially, but there's a definite difference in tone between the game's two objectives.

 

15.  In Origins, we were The Chosen One who needed to defeat the Ancient Evil, but only in a metagaming sense.  You had to know the tropes to call it out.  In Inquisition, we're beaten over the head with literally being the chosen one.  We also have special Chosen One powers this time around.  In Origins, we were just immune to the Blight, which I felt was a perfect way to do the "special Chosen One powers" thing, because it was exceedingly relevant but also in no way over the top.  It was actually a very boring special power.

 

16.  Our companions weren't really presented to us as The Ocean's 11 of Thedas.  We had:

 

Alistair: bumbling Gray Warden intern

Dog: a dog

Liliana: a crazy bard

Oghren: some random dwarf warrior

Sten: a random grunt soldier from a strange land

Wynne: a seasoned mage, but nothing special

Zevran: an assassin who failed so spectacularly in killing you that many players just killed him without knowing he was even a companion

 

Shale and Morrigan are really the only extraordinary companions.

 

Contrast this with Inquisition, which gives you

 

Cassandra: A main character in other media, could easily have been a player character in her own game.  Probably has more accomplishments under her belt than the Warden or Hawke

Cole: A spirit who can read and alter minds

Dorian: Probably equal to Wynne all things said (though, again, mages are beefed up in DAI's world)

Iron Bull: A leader in his own right, essentially a Qunari James Bond

Sera:  Admittedly has some of the least impressive qualifications

Solas:  I don't think I really need to say anything about Solas

Varric:  The Tony Stark of Thedas

Vivienne: She thinks she's more important than she is, but she's still pretty damned important.

Most of our companions this time around have the qualifications of full-fledged player characters.  And this was deliberate.  They wanted us to feel like the leader of leaders.  It just makes the story so huge, but that also makes it so much higher fantasy

 

17.  They're obviously expanding the Elf lore more and more, which means digging back to a time when the world was decidedly more high fantasy.

 

I really wanted to get to 20.  Also, I don't think all of these are bad things, though all things said I would rather have Origins 2.


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#49
Giantdeathrobot

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12.  The weapons and armor were also waaaaaaaaay less flashy.  DA2 and DAI are both straddling the JRPG line of over sized weapons and armor

 

13.  We spent more time in drab, medieval locations, because Fereldan.

 

 

 

You make some decent points, but I'm going to address these two;

 

DA2 went over the top, Inquisition however is really fine as far as armor and weapons go I found. The two-handed mauls are too heavy, dual-blade daggers look silly and whoever designed the Inquisitor's armors has a serious longcoat fetish, but I pretty much never saw anything in Inquisition I found ridiculous. Stylized yes, but that's par for the course of being fantasy, even more grounded ones like The Witcher go over the top. Apart from joke items like the Wegge of Destiny anyway. A very, very far cry from typical JRPG fare.

 

And thank god for that. Origins is many good things, but a good looking game it is not. Most locations are drab and uninteresting, when they're not downright ugly (really Alistair, Lothering is ''pretty as a painting''? The place looks depressing). Inquisition looks ten times better, and not just because of the new engine. I'd run around Emprise du Lion or the Emerald Graves for hours before setting one foot in any of Origins' areas.



#50
Maverick827

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You make some decent points, but I'm going to address these two;

 

DA2 went over the top, Inquisition however is really fine as far as armor and weapons go I found. The two-handed mauls are too heavy, dual-blade daggers look silly and whoever designed the Inquisitor's armors has a serious longcoat fetish, but I pretty much never saw anything in Inquisition I found ridiculous. Stylized yes, but that's par for the course of being fantasy, even more grounded ones like The Witcher go over the top. Apart from joke items like the Wegge of Destiny anyway. A very, very far cry from typical JRPG fare.

 

And thank god for that. Origins is many good things, but a good looking game it is not. Most locations are drab and uninteresting, when they're not downright ugly (really Alistair, Lothering is ''pretty as a painting''? The place looks depressing). Inquisition looks ten times better, and not just because of the new engine. I'd run around Emprise du Lion or the Emerald Graves for hours before setting one foot in any of Origins' areas.

 

Every one-handed weapon I've had has a pommel with the radius of a dinner plate.  :unsure: