234 réponses à ce sujet

[AWTEW]

There were torture chambers in the dark future as well as the torture scenario with Leliana, she was also infected with the blight as an experiment. I am still not convinced by this claim that the Qun has been changed (not that I want to start that debate again), go and read any of the Q&A stuff about the Qun from back when Origins came out. There is a ton of info that wasn't put in the game because the Qun is meant to be unknown and alien to Thedas. I don't see how the fact that it accepts transsexualism as a thing makes it any more or less gender neutral than it already was. 
 
This game was less dark than Origins sure but it was not completely lacking in dark influences and there is nothing stopping future games from being as dark as Origins, or possibly even darker.

I doubt they will go much darker, lest they get the R18+label(market suicide)and nooo we don't want that. Heaven forbid, adult gamers get something, truly for adults.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

The game has its dark moments, but I do feel the game has lost its edge in certain ways. With one of the bigger offenders being the "Divine Leliana + mage allies" for example.

[Blooddrunk1004]

I don't see any ASOIAF influence in Dragon Age. It's a fantasy world with some dark elements that get lightly explored.

The Witcher series is the prime example if you want a franchise similiar to Game of Thrones style it explores: politics, violence, racism, torture, rape and etc. better than any other game in my opinion. DA also has some of them, but you never experience them on the level like you do in TW.

 

To give it credit though, Dragon Age did touch one subject that was handled really well, especially in Inquisition and that is religion. I actually applaud Bioware for having the guts to explore it and they didn't held back on it.

[lyleoffmyspace]

I don't see any ASOIAF influence in Dragon Age. It's a fantasy world with some dark elements that get lightly explored.

The Witcher series is the prime example if you want a franchise similiar to Game of Thrones style it explores: politics, violence, racism, torture, rape and etc. better than any other game in my opinion. DA also has some of them, but you never experience them on the level like you do in TW.

 

To give it credit though, Dragon Age did touch one subject that was handled really well, especially in Inquisition and that is religion. I actually applaud Bioware for having the guts to explore it and they didn't held back on it.

 

Bioware made the first game inspired by ASOIAF. It was actually the first place I heard about the ASOIAF series, whilst following the development of Origins. The Grey Wardens are basically a direct copy of the Night's Watch. 

 

The Witcher series is a bit different because rather than getting actively involved in the politics like in DA, you're sort of just one man who's got caught up in these situations. I will agree that it is much more involved and better written than the Dragon Age politics though.

[Tsunami Chef]

I never saw the game of thrones influence, but DA:O was definitely "Darker" than DA:I. I think that is to be expected though...DA:O takes entirely in blighted lands where everyone is at constant fear of getting humped by darkspawn. Large parts of DA:I take place where people aren't in nearly that amount of immediate peril.

 

There is a ton of dark stuff in DA:I though....Adamant was as dark as any mission in DA:I I can think of...wardens blood sacrificing themselves...killing an innocent teenage elf girl you sent to join the wardens if you made that choice. Templars slaughtering their own comrades when they won't convert to red lyrium....Leliana getting her skin peeled off for darkspawn tests in the mage timeline....Clarel getting eaten by a dragon after she realizes she has been sacrificing her family for no reason. You can let an empress get assassinated so you can gain control of her empire...

 

There is definitely a lack of deaths in your immediate party during DA:I, but I definitely think there are still a ton of dark aspects. The tone in general is lighter, but I disagree that DA:I lacks the dark aspects that Origins had. There is just a lot more "light" stuff interspersed in between since you have a sort of foundation and aren't living on the run.

[Zwingtanz]

I never saw the game of thrones influence, but DA:O was definitely "Darker" than DA:I. I think that is to be expected though...DA:O takes entirely in blighted lands where everyone is at constant fear of getting humped by darkspawn. Large parts of DA:I take place where people aren't in nearly that amount of immediate peril.

 

There is a ton of dark stuff in DA:I though....Adamant was as dark as any mission in DA:I I can think of...wardens blood sacrificing themselves...killing an innocent teenage elf girl you sent to join the wardens if you made that choice. Templars slaughtering their own comrades when they won't convert to red lyrium....Leliana getting her skin peeled off for darkspawn tests in the mage timeline....Clarel getting eaten by a dragon after she realizes she has been sacrificing her family for no reason. You can let an empress get assassinated so you can gain control of her empire...

 

There is definitely a lack of deaths in your immediate party during DA:I, but I definitely think there are still a ton of dark aspects.

The templars are definitely damn dark. Like that rape thing in the diary in the hinterlands, ugh.

[Eledran]

Magic doesnt corrupt. People choose to corrupt themselves.

Source of magic (the fade) not corrupted

Magic itself is neutral. It's what you do with it that defines if you are using it for good or evil

 

It's also not the one force that corrupts directly in Wheel of Time, but the fact that the Dark One corrupted saidin etc.

 

But you know what I mean: magic users have more of a chance to be corrupted etc.

[schall_und_rauch]

Two things that were very much ASOFAI which I particularly liked about DA:O:

1) The human/politicking ement. Yes, there was the big, bad archdemon. But there was also Loghain, the civil war, his supporters and his adversaries. The Landsmeet, which was primarily a game of politics and choices much more than that of swords and shields, is the finest example of adding a theme from ASOFAI.

2) The greyness of characters. There is few black and white, everybody has their motives, their reasons, their ambitions and their flaws. That's very much opposed to traditional phantasy where there is a good side and a bad side, but nothing inbetween. In DA:O, people can't even decide who is on which side.

 

DA:I has significantly less of both elements. There is a bit of politicking in the Wicked Hearts quest, but it is limited to merely that quest -- there is no builtup, no decisions outside of that quest have any impact and the consequences aren't felt throughout the game. The chantry as a political adversary -- they proclaimed the Inquisition as heretical, after all -- vanishes after act 1. There is no way you can screw up so a political enemy outside of the Inquisition gets chosen as Divine.

 

The adversaries are much more often cliche villains. Corypheus is obvious -- no redeeming quality about him, but even Samson or Erimonde show no redeeming features. Alexius has his son, but other than that, stock cliche evil and mad wizard. There is nothing good to be found about either the Venatori or the Red Templars.

 

So, yeah, I think some of the themes that made DA:O so great are missing.

[DeLaatsteGeitenneuker]

Two things that were very much ASOFAI which I particularly liked about DA:O:

1) The human/politicking ement. Yes, there was the big, bad archdemon. But there was also Loghain, the civil war, his supporters and his adversaries. The Landsmeet, which was primarily a game of politics and choices much more than that of swords and shields, is the finest example of adding a theme from ASOFAI.

2) The greyness of characters. There is few black and white, everybody has their motives, their reasons, their ambitions and their flaws. That's very much opposed to traditional phantasy where there is a good side and a bad side, but nothing inbetween. In DA:O, people can't even decide who is on which side.

 

DA:I has significantly less of both elements. There is a bit of politicking in the Wicked Hearts quest, but it is limited to merely that quest -- there is no builtup, no decisions outside of that quest have any impact and the consequences aren't felt throughout the game. The chantry as a political adversary -- they proclaimed the Inquisition as heretical, after all -- vanishes after act 1. There is no way you can screw up so a political enemy outside of the Inquisition gets chosen as Divine.

 

The adversaries are much more often cliche villains. Corypheus is obvious -- no redeeming quality about him, but even Samson or Erimonde show no redeeming features. Alexius has his son, but other than that, stock cliche evil and mad wizard. There is nothing good to be found about either the Venatori or the Red Templars.

 

So, yeah, I think some of the themes that made DA:O so great are missing.

Ihr geschriebenes Englisch ist sehr gut.

[schall_und_rauch]

Ihr geschriebenes Englisch ist sehr gut.

 

Oh, vielen Dank. Das freut mich zu hören.

[Catastrophy]

I'm pretty sure everybody can adjust the settings to make the entire game darker.

[TheChris92]

Bioware made the first game inspired by ASOIAF.

Nah, they didn't. They made the game based on their own alternative to 'Dungeons & Dragons'. ASOIAF is but one of many literary influences that inspired. Authors gets inspired by all sorts of things, music, books, film, paintings, real-day-life, they take all these things into account. Martin's books wasn't the basis for the entire game. Passing off the similarities between the Wardens & the Night's Watch is stretching it. I'd say there's more Tolkien affluence by comparison.

The Witcher series is a bit different because rather than getting actively involved in the politics like in DA, you're sort of just one man who's got caught up in these situations. I will agree that it is much more involved and better written than the Dragon Age politics though.

The Witcher deals with morally ambiguous themes & characters in same the essence as that of ASOIAF. This isn't that apparent in Dragon Age -- The villains are more straightforward and clear; even Loghain did stupid evil things for the sole sake of providing motivation to oppose him "Cause he's the bad guy, yo". Geralt gets involved in the political machinations, just as much as the Starks do in ASOIAF. There's also the on-going struggles between monarchs in the Witcher, and a looming threat in the background plotting to break the whole sandcastle down.

[Virgulec]

Hey, ihr beiden! Hör damit auf...

Give them time with the darkness... I'm hoping they're just getting started. Anyway, there is a new Polish game that let's you kill any and everyone, could try that for darkness.

[Han Shot First]

Game of thrones is overrated. 

 

No, it isn't.

 

A Song of Ice and Fire is one of the best fantasy series ever written. 

[DeLaatsteGeitenneuker]

I'm pretty sure everybody can adjust the settings to make the entire game darker.

Ihr geschriebenes Englisch ist auch sehr gut.

[DeLaatsteGeitenneuker]

No, it isn't.

 

A Song of Ice and Fire is one of the best fantasy series ever written. 

I am not quite sure I would call it fantasy per se but it is well done, for sure.

[Vox Draco]

No, it isn't.

 

A Song of Ice and Fire is one of the best fantasy series ever written. 

 

I'll keep the final judgement until Martin FINALLY FINISHES ANOTHER BOOK! ... sorry, its X-mas, I know, family-meetings ahead, and nerves are stressed already..

 

...

 

As far as darkness goes...we'll see what Bioware does in the next Dragon Age. I am curious, because its quite sure we'll go north, Tevinter and/or Anderfels. We surely will have the Warden's issues adressed, and get an insight into their whole organisation, and I don't think it'll be all white knights saving the world here

 

And Tevinter under the civilised crust is surely NOT all rainbows and unicorns...more bloodmagic and sacrifice and political intrigues, all the Westeros-specialties. I actually can't wait for it, hopefully it'll be released soon? *looks at watch* *looks at watch* *looks at watch* *looks at watch* *looks at watch* *looks at watch*

[Han Shot First]

I am not quite sure I would call it fantasy per se but it is well done, for sure.

 

It's low fantasy, but part of the fantasy genre all the same. 

 

It has magic, dragons, elves, zombies, and a race of world-destroying monsters. Perhaps prophecy as well, though I suppose you can lump that in with magic. It's just that all of those elements are more subdued (so far) than they are in Tolkienesque High Fantasy.

[Darkly Tranquil]

Two things that were very much ASOFAI which I particularly liked about DA:O:
1) The human/politicking ement. Yes, there was the big, bad archdemon. But there was also Loghain, the civil war, his supporters and his adversaries. The Landsmeet, which was primarily a game of politics and choices much more than that of swords and shields, is the finest example of adding a theme from ASOFAI.
2) The greyness of characters. There is few black and white, everybody has their motives, their reasons, their ambitions and their flaws. That's very much opposed to traditional phantasy where there is a good side and a bad side, but nothing inbetween. In DA:O, people can't even decide who is on which side.
 
DA:I has significantly less of both elements. There is a bit of politicking in the Wicked Hearts quest, but it is limited to merely that quest -- there is no builtup, no decisions outside of that quest have any impact and the consequences aren't felt throughout the game. The chantry as a political adversary -- they proclaimed the Inquisition as heretical, after all -- vanishes after act 1. There is no way you can screw up so a political enemy outside of the Inquisition gets chosen as Divine.
 
The adversaries are much more often cliche villains. Corypheus is obvious -- no redeeming quality about him, but even Samson or Erimonde show no redeeming features. Alexius has his son, but other than that, stock cliche evil and mad wizard. There is nothing good to be found about either the Venatori or the Red Templars.
 
So, yeah, I think some of the themes that made DA:O so great are missing.

I agree. There is far less moral ambiguity in most of the characters. They are mostly either generically good or moustache twirling evil.

Look at Loghain as an example, people are still arguing to this day about the ethics of Loghain's actions in Origins and whether he deserved to live or die. He is a perfect example of a brilliant grey character; someone who has done good deeds for bad reasons, and bad deeds for good reasons and who can be interpreted in any number of ways. Is there anyone in Inquisition who can inspire that kind of debate? (Maybe Solas? Time will tell). But then you have characters like Arl Eamon, who can viewed as either kindly uncle or scheming vizier, and Queen Anora, who is also a character whose nature is subjective. Origins is filled with these characters that, depending on which facets of their character you focus on, can be good or bad. Inquisition's characters for the most part feel comparatively back and white.

[dreamgazer]

No, it isn't.
 
A Song of Ice and Fire is one of the best fantasy series ever written.

Not sure I'd agree with the sweeping comment about the series, but the first three installments are definitely a trio of the best fantasy novels ever written.

[LPPrince]

Not sure I'd agree with the sweeping comment about the series, but the first three installments are definitely a trio of the best fantasy novels ever written.

 

On that subject,

 

Dragon Age Origins began its development in 2003.

At the time, three of the so far five novels in ASOIAF were released, with an additional book coming during DAO's development.

 

A Game of Thrones(1996)

A Clash of Kings(1998/1999)

A Storm of Swords(2000)

A Feast for Crows(2005)

A Dance with Dragons(2011)

The Winds of Winter(being written at the moment)

A Dream of Spring(supposed final book in the series)

 

The first three novels were the best in the series. DAO had a hell of a lot of great inspiration to take from A Song of Ice and Fire, and you could feel it.

 

It kinda makes me sad now though. Back then, you had to have read the books to know the world of ASOIAF, which means if someone brought it up, you could count on them being somewhat knowledgeable on the subject matter.

 

Now however there's Game of Thrones the HBO series which while great(I enjoy it), has made its way into popular culture meaning there are those with only a passing fancy for it, or those who have only heard of it and thus make erroneous assumptions.

 

Its one of my pet peeves. Back during DAO development and even immediately after DAO's launch you could talk intricacies between it and ASOIAF. Nowadays its all about the series on television, and lets be honest- the show is not a perfect adaptation of the books.

 

Before I go off the rails,

 

I'm glad they're not trying to force darkness everywhere like they did in DA2. I feel like DAO handled it perfectly in that the world was dark(and full of terrors, ey) but you could still find happiness and even end the game in a happy way(with the potential to end up having a less than stellar ending too).

 

DA2 forced darkness on us in foolish ways and the ending was...yeah.

 

Inquisition I think had the right elements, but maybe they could've been presented better? Inquisition is still fresh in my mind, so I think I'd need more time before I really break down how it could've done things differently and if it even needed to.

 

I enjoyed Inq vastly more than DA2, anyway. Though I find myself unable to really compare my enjoyment of Inquisition and Origins. Perhaps they're so far apart or so different I just find myself incapable.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

I don't personally think there was much influence from GoT on the Dragon Age series.

 

I'd say the Lord of the Rings had far more influence than anything by Martin did.

[Eggplant Hell Princess]

I miss the "darker" ethical decisions of the first two games, true, but I really would be unhappy if they went full Game of Thrones 2 edgy 4 u with all the people stabbed in the face, women getting raped, etc. It's cliché and usually contrived, and in my admittedly prejudiced opinion those tropes are generally only preferred by people without much life experience. As a woman who works in a very male-dominated industry, I really like being able to play Dragon Age without hearing misogynist slurs or references to rape used for shock value. I get way more than enough in my real life. I don't find it fantastical or edgy just typical and tiring.

 

I agree with:

 

OH MY GOD YOU PEOPLE!
First of all,y ou know who likes their "mature" entertainment gritty, with someone being raped at every corner and ****** and blood as far as the eye can see? If you answered kids you just won the million dollar prize.
Second, if you're asking for more game of thrones in this game you clearly dont get it. You see ASOIAF is almost an historical novel(does that term exist in english?) and they add some fantastic elements in there to add flavor. Dragon Age on the other hand, is exactly the opposite. It is your basic D&D cape & sword universe but with some realistic undertones wich make it unique.

 

I never thought Origins was Dark Fantasy in the first place, more like traditional High Fantasy with a side-order of rape. It's part of why I like Inquisition so much, to get back to being a High Fantasy affair after ]['s Low Fantasy nonsense.

 

Outside of the ethical decisions (Branka, allowing Connor to be possessed, sacrificing the elves, etc.) DA has always been high fantasy. DA2 was the closest we've gotten to a dark fantasy and that was generally not well received. 

[cronshaw]

Dragon Age has always been High Fantasy
And is just as dark and mature as it has always been.