What I was trying to clarify was the issue you had with him prioritising barrier for himself first and foremost.
Right, well, its flexible - team composition, playstyle, difficulty dependant. If I can keep myself alive as Keeper by prioritizing Barrier on myself while tank dies its obviously fail. If tank can keep her/himself alive without my Barrier then yes keeping myself alive is priority. I think of Keeper as healer.
That Hunter who doesn't use Elemental Mines
Pfffffff.
Anyone that thinks I will chase them around on keeper to barrier them.
That guy that tries to tell everyone how to play their character.
That guy that brags while playing AW.
People that just run into treasure rooms and spawn gaurdians when the team is already fighting other mobs.
I've played loads of matches even without any class that can cast barrier. It's not mandatory. It just gives you possibilities.
I didnt say barriers were mandatory. If you choose a keeper then you are sacrificing a slot which could be filled by a tank or a dps character. Keeper is support and excells at nothing but support, so if you take out her core ability then she is no longer support, amd therefore wasting a slot in the party.
Static cage is pretty good, is it on any other character skillset? I'm not sure.
Static cage is pretty good, is it on any other character skillset? I'm not sure.
Its Keeper exclusive. Keeper, however, does not have Flashpoint to double cast like Ele nor the Cage provides instant damage like Necro or Ele. IMO its good on Keeper, interesting combos, but personally if I wanted Barrier not for "keeping" I pick Ele.
I agree with both rat and penguin on this. The Keeper doesn't lend itself to DPS, it's an almost pure support class. It's not mandatory - no-one is forcing you to take barrier - but it can really help, especially with weaker teams that need someone to take care of them. It doesn't have to be taken, but it definitely gives you alot more flexibility, which is IMO worth it. For me, it's more the fact that there's no reason to not take barrier as a Keeper.
I'd also say there honestly aren't so many skills in contention to justify skipping barrier on a Keeper in the first place. Chain lightning / Frost Step or Fade Cloak / Static Cage or Disruption Field / Barrier is a pretty standard build. If you need another slot, it's infinitely better - imo - to lose chain lightning than to lose Barrier. Especially considering most of an entire tree is dedicated to or work well as barrier passives which would be wasted if you don't use barrier.
Here are a few to add to the list
Re: Keepers that don't use Barrier- Although it's not BW mandate that Barrier is a "mandatory" spell, it doesn't change the fact that the class is built around the spell. Not using Barrier as a Keeper is like a Reaver not using Devour. It works, but it's just doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
Why are you defining something by what it can't do instead of what it can? "The Arcane Warrior has to attack to get threat/barrier, so it can't be a tank". So freaking what? Fact is he can generate enough threat to gather enemies and enough Barrier to take the hits, noticeably whenever he wishes due to spirit blade being cooldownless and cheap, which the Lego(or anyone really) can't do with their far inferior guard.A tank's primary roles are threat control and enemy positioning. You need to be able to generate a lot of threat on yourself to get enemies to ignore your DPS/Control/Support characters, and do so reliably. Yes, since you are drawing a lot of attention on yourself, you need to have strong defenses.
Pull of the Abyss is a Control skill (a.k.a. Crowd-Control), not a taunt, and Spirit Blade is a DPS skill. Fade Shield just gives him good defense. The fact that the AW's defense relies on him doing damage (a la DPS) should make things pretty clear.
Regardless, I can see the need for the AW to be the de-facto tank if a real tank is unavailable, but directly interfering with a tank's job is my annoyance. I play a tank a lot, and I do it well. If I am in the party as a tank (or anyone else is a tank, for that matter), the AW should not be trying to tank, but rather being the DPS/Control that he is supposed to be. Pick your choice of his real skills: Inhibit, debilitate, debuff, destroy... the AW just needs to leave the tanking to the actual tanks.
Yeah, I'm one of the few that would have no issues with Fade Shield being nerfed, say, to only generate barrier upon successfully deflecting with Spirit Blade. Something that still gives it purpose, but stops confusing class roles for players. The Arcane Warrior in Origins could tank, but that was because threat could be generated reliably by wearing massive armour and Fade Walker was an amazing sustained ability for defense. The Arcane Warrior here is by no means what it was in Origins, and I notice many almost seem to want to force it to be.
I agree with both rat and penguin on this. The Keeper doesn't lend itself to DPS, it's an almost pure support class. It's not mandatory - no-one is forcing you to take barrier - but it can really help, especially with weaker teams that need someone to take care of them. It doesn't have to be taken, but it definitely gives you alot more flexibility, which is IMO worth it. For me, it's more the fact that there's no reason to not take barrier as a Keeper.
I'd also say there honestly aren't so many skills in contention to justify skipping barrier on a Keeper in the first place. Chain lightning / Frost Step or Fade Cloak / Static Cage or Disruption Field / Barrier is a pretty standard build. If you need another slot, it's infinitely better - imo - to lose chain lightning than to lose Barrier. Especially considering most of an entire tree is dedicated to or work well as barrier passives which would be wasted if you don't use barrier.
What did they say during the pre-launch MP video?
"Oh, we made sure each class had a few viable builds. We're playing Keeper with barrier now, but you could totally play a barrierless Keeper and not miss a beat."
What they said and the truth of the matter are two different things, then. You can play Keeper without barrier - but you'd be wasting alot of points on passives you aren't using, or replacing them with meh passives. Keeper lacks the damage for DPS and lacks the consistency for sustained DPS. She can't draw agro or build armour either. That leaves her with either Support or Aggressive Support, both of which build barrier because it's one of the best skills in the game due to little healing and poor armour.
What they said and the truth of the matter are two different things, then. You can play Keeper without barrier - but you'd be wasting alot of points on passives you aren't using, or replacing them with meh passives. Keeper lacks the damage for DPS and lacks the consistency for sustained DPS. She can't draw agro or build armour either. That leaves her with either Support or Aggressive Support, both of which build barrier because it's one of the best skills in the game due to little healing and poor armour.
I know Barrier is non-negotiable on Keepers. Bioware just didn't seem to think so after beta testing.
I'm laughing at them, chill a little
Ah
I'm laughing at them, chill a little
Bioware also seems to think caltrops is a great archer skill aswell weirdly. Every live stream so far has had an archer using caltrops in it and they've even highlighted how good it is.
Caltrops. Lol. Is there a worse ability? I recently promoted my archer and didn't even bother using it at level 1.
Bioware also seems to think caltrops is a great archer skill aswell weirdly. Every live stream so far has had an archer using caltrops in it and they've even highlighted how good it is.
I had forgotten about that. They said something like "you'll definitely notice when a keeper's not putting up barrier or an archer's not putting down caltrops." Like we ever notice when they do put it down.
If I'm playing an archer or another ranged class, I will definitely notice another archer using caltrops. I'll first look at his level and see if he's using that stupid bow with caltrops proc. If he's like 15+ and not using that bow, I just facepalm and know we're pretty much a man down this run.
That mage that pulls a large group of enemies with a normal staff attack.
Jokers - I would consider it very wrong to think that "most people" are at a 200+ prestige level.
That sort of time commitment for the average gamer I do not see happening. Remember, these boards are not a representative of what is going on out there in the wild. We are seeing maybe top 5% (and even that is likely too high a procentage) from a time used perspective post here.
Remember, these boards are not a representative of what is going on out there in the wild. We are seeing maybe top 5% (and even that is likely too high a procentage) from a time used perspective post here.
pro-centage - i lol'ed 
But i do kinda blame the "top" players on boards like this for propagating bias, which filters down to the 90%. BSN moans about Katari, Assasins, Alchemists etc and then you get those influenced players leaving or kicking people playing said classes. So without further ado...
That guy, who's so elitist, will kick if you don't conform to his standards.
Uh... no. Just no. This misconception is one of the reasons I do not like the Knight-Enchanter class.
It does not matter how you build him The Arcane Warrior will never be anything more than a DPS/Control class that has strong defense (only whilst attacking).
If you think having strong defense is what makes a tank, you are sadly mistaken.
How many times have you prestiged the AW? I recall your advice topic on the AW being quite the misinformation thread. Just because you prefer to play the class as a pure controller doesn't make that the be-all-end-all build for all users. Also, because you have seen the class played badly does not make the class any different. If this were true, every class would be bad, and no one would be allowed to experiment with builds--literally the one redeeming replay factor of the game. Expand your horizons, challenge your perception, play with compatible people, and please, stop crying nerf.
Retour en haut
