142 réponses à ce sujet

[UniformGreyColor]

If they wanted to make fights more interesting, they should have simply made the healing spells either less powerful, have longer cool downs, or act as heal-over-time effects, and introduced more crowd control effects to facilitate things like kiting. All the introduction of Barrier did was replace Heal spam with Barrier spam and made mages no less mandatory.

 

No healing spells to spam, Regeneration Potion. Paniced, Burning, Chilled, Shocked, Fear, Stagger, Bleed, Knock Down, Sleep, Slowed, Poisoned, Paralyzed, Frozen, Combos, just off the top of my head. Barrier is not spamable since the length/cool down ratio is better to be used at select points during the battle. IDK what difficulty you play at but you pretty much need all that CC on NM.

[Nightdragon8]

The problem with this is that mages go through mana so fast you'd need to resupply after every fight. The cost to effectiveness ratio is pretty screwy, and since Bioware totally removed stat gains and willpower as a mana source..

which turns into D&D pretty much, 1 fight = wizard, Soceror, useless time so then the party has to rest, nap time

 

the problem is now tho, insted of healing 1 person, we are barriering the whole group, and now warrior give themselves more health. I mean later on the the game, you don't even need to barrier the tank and they have so much guard and armor that they don't need the added barrier.

 

Also I think the removal of healing from the game was more for the Multiplayer than anythign else, they haven't broken really any cycle, considering all enamies are still HP sponges and Players are still pretty much glass cannons.

[Shark17676]

Uh huh.
 
Damage mitigation (basically barrier) and healing spells from Dragon Age: Origins:

 

 

Were replaced with this in Dragon Age: Inquisition:
 

 
  
 
 Truly impressive progress. Almost as impressive as the (near) complete removal of buffs in in DA:I.

 

I always thought the Group Heal icon was hilarious.  I could envision all those little figures shouting "YAAAAY!!" whenever I used it.

[UniformGreyColor]

which turns into D&D pretty much, 1 fight = wizard, Soceror, useless time so then the party has to rest, nap time

 

the problem is now tho, insted of healing 1 person, we are barriering the whole group, and now warrior give themselves more health. I mean later on the the game, you don't even need to barrier the tank and they have so much guard and armor that they don't need the added barrier.

 

Also I think the removal of healing from the game was more for the Multiplayer than anythign else, they haven't broken really any cycle, considering all enamies are still HP sponges and Players are still pretty much glass cannons.

 

I still see a ton of talk about how all these decisions were made for MP. Lets be honest here that is all just conjecture and assumptions.

[Bladenite1481]

No healing spells to spam, Regeneration Potion. Paniced, Burning, Chilled, Shocked, Fear, Stagger, Bleed, Knock Down, Sleep, Slowed, Poisoned, Paralyzed, Frozen, Combos, just off the top of my head. Barrier is not spamable since the length/cool down ratio is better to be used at select points during the battle. IDK what difficulty you play at but you pretty much need all that CC on NM.

I never bothered with CC and I played on NM as a DW rogue. The no healing thing strikes me as limiting choices but not really making the game any more difficult or tactical. They need better AI and better NPC move sets to make it more difficult, everything else is just window dressing and bloated resistances/health. Nothing in this game is remotely challenging, its just tedious. 

[UniformGreyColor]

I never bothered with CC and I played on NM as a DW rogue. The no healing thing strikes me as limiting choices but not really making the game any more difficult or tactical. They need better AI and better NPC move sets to make it more difficult, everything else is just window dressing and bloated resistances/health. Nothing in this game is remotely challenging, its just tedious. 

 

Try killing every enemy on the last mission of Heaven.

[Emu8207]

I am ok with Healing Spells being gutted. It does tick me off that we lose choices in an RPG such as this but if we did have healing spells, the game would be even more of a snooze walk then it currently is.

[Aver88]

They don't want us to "reset combat"? Then why the hell they gave us possibility to have 12 powerful, instant healing potions with no cooldown (totally OP) + 12 AOE healing grenades, again with no cooldown + 15 healing-over-time potions on the top of that? 39 healing items are more than enough to reset combat several times. Only thing that changed is that you need to go back to the camp after several fights, which is annoying. I think that they actually did that to balance multiplayer, because players would hate to be forced to have a healer in a party, so devs removed healers from the game. 

 

I don't like the fact that they removed healing spells. My biggest issue is that now every melee class, other than tank, is useless because they will get damage no matter how well you play as tank. There are just way too many AOE skills to keep melee characters safe, so they constantly drink your potions, like 10 times more often than other characters and because of that you have to constantly run back to a camp to replenish them. 

 

My other issue is that Guard abilities and shields feel more gimmicky than old combat system. It's based on pressing buttons in the right combination: you see that enemy is taking a swing - press stonewall and after you receive blow hold auto-attack button, until you see that enemy is taking another swing. Keep repeating until enemy is dead. This gimmickness is causing another problem - AI can't handle it very well, so during harder fights, I'm forced to control tank all the time, unless I want all my potion to be consumed in matter of seconds. 

 

Instead of removing healing spells, they just could balance them. There are plenty of ways to balance them: mana cost, cooldown, casting time, their power, but instead they choose to call them potions and limit how many times you can use them. 

[Captain_Obvious]

I like the way they have done it in DAI.  DAO and DA2 were fine, too, but I never liked having to make sure "the healer" was always in my party.  I always had to take Wynne or Anders because they were the ones with healing spells.  Now as long as I have a mage who can cast barrier, I'm good.  Two mages, stagger barrier casting, and dragons beware.  The new way works for me.  Regardless of why they did it, I get more party rotation out of it, and that is nice.      

[Pacman]

Uh huh.
 
Damage mitigation (basically barrier) and healing spells from Dragon Age: Origins:

 

 

Were replaced with this in Dragon Age: Inquisition:
 

 
  
 
 Truly impressive progress. Almost as impressive as the (near) complete removal of buffs in in DA:I.

 

Is it surprising that I completed DAO more times on nightmare not using a single of those damage mitigation skills? Probably not since DAO was one of the easiests RPGs I have ever played.

 

Also, more does not always mean better.

[wrigleyviller]

I really like the way it is now. Sure, you have 12 healing potions...but you have to use a perk that you could otherwise use on some other useful benefit to get those 12. Sure, you can just return to camp to restock...but you're not always near a camp, and don't always want to constantly return to camp. I enjoy actually playing the game and try to minimize the number of restocking trips I have to make. Sure, you could make autoheal take a long time. But that incentives players to find a safe spot and basically stand there while healing up, which is boring. Of course, you wouldn't HAVE to just stand there and wait to heal, but you don't HAVE to constantly go back for more healing potions either.

 

In DAO and DA2, if you brought a healer your only goal was barely getting through an encounter so that you'd instantly heal. In DAO, by midgame you'd essentially have infinite healing potions. In DAI, I think strategically about how long I can afford to continue exploring before returning to camp. I have to proactively manage barrier and guard (well, less so guard), which is way more fun than having Wynne stand in the corner ineffectually making staff attacks until Leliana gets hit. And I'm sure the current set up is preferable from an encounter design perspective - if you're planning an encounter, you judge approximately what level the party is at, which gives you an estimate of total HP and DPS, and can then assume they have 8-12 healing potions, some regen potions, and maybe a rare healing spell or two at high level. All of this gives the level designer a pretty solid starting place - certainly more than not knowing if the party includes a healer and/or bought 100 healing potions.

[dlux]

Is it surprising that I completed DAO more times on nightmare not using a single of those damage mitigation skills? Probably not since DAO was one of the easiests RPGs I have ever played.

 

Also, more does not always mean better.

Uh huh.

 

So you're saying the dumbing down of Dragon Age is a very good thing because DA:O was too easy? DA:I is the easiest Dragon Age game by far, I fail to see any progress in that respect.

[Morroian]

Without commenting on the OP (just yet), I will say that some of the design decisions in this game leave me baffled. I get the impression that the top designer(s) aren't sure what they're doing-

 

I just think they're poor game designers.

[In Exile]

I just think they're poor game designers.

Bioware has always struggled with the gameplay side. The only time their gameplay was top notch was when they didn't design the ruleset: BG1-BG2.

[Farangbaa]

I have no idea why people get so upset about missing the healing spells and missing everything else from the past ('back in my time, son...')

 

All at the same time while complaining the game is way too easy. Why do you even need the heal spells?

 

Why complain about Barrier spam while the only thing you are going to do with that heal spell you want is spam it relentlessly and in almost every battle until you beat the game?

 

Seriously?

 

This is just a game with different rules. Adapt or go play another game of DA:O.

[Iakus]

Yes, fine job Bioware.

You removed the need for a healer, and replaced it with the need for a barrier mage and a tank.

Such progress.

I'm inclined to agree.

 

This system makes trinity play even more rigid.

[NeitherNor]

The premise that "a rechargeable heal lets the player continually reset the fight in their favor" seems flawed because plenty of games have found a way to avoid the 'continually' part. They've done so by balancing healing, damage avoidance, mana and health regeneration, potions, damage output by enemies etc. in a way that makes combat both varied and a challenge, and that gives different classes different ways to contribute to the group,

 

Will healing reset the fight to some degree? Of course, but often a cost. Balancing that cost with the benefit might not be easy, but it seems to me that it potentially makes for more compelling gameplay than doing away with it altogether.

[Lewie]

Yes, fine job Bioware.

You removed the need for a healer, and replaced it with the need for a barrier mage and a tank.

Such progress.

Yes. Never take a tank into a fight or use defensive measures. Just swing **** and hope it works out?

 

That isn't good enough, I need my awesome finishers that DAO gave me. I need to feel awesome Bioware, I don't and apparently it is your fault. 

[Dreamer]

I have no idea why people get so upset about missing the healing spells and missing everything else from the past ('back in my time, son...')

 

All at the same time while complaining the game is way too easy. Why do you even need the heal spells?

 

Why complain about Barrier spam while the only thing you are going to do with that heal spell you want is spam it relentlessly and in almost every battle until you beat the game?

 

Seriously?

 

This is just a game with different rules. Adapt or go play another game of DA:O.

 

The suggestion isn't that the rules have changed, but that they're trying to convince us the rules have changed by using a different font. Sure it might look different, but the message is still the same: barrier replaces healing spam for a different flavor of spam.

[CronoDragoon]

Bioware has always struggled with the gameplay side. The only time their gameplay was top notch was when they didn't design the ruleset: BG1-BG2.

 

And Mass Effect 3 (if we're talking about combat gameplay, which this thread seems to be).

[In Exile]

The suggestion isn't that the rules have changed, but that they're trying to convince us the rules have changed by using a different font. Sure it might look different, but the message is still the same: barrier replaces healing spam for a different flavor of spam.

But barrier is mechanically different from pure HP. At least for a mage, there are Incentives to draining your barrier (slight, however). It fuels fire magic for example.

[DarkAmaranth1966]

So they give us pots, you pot your way through instead of having to use mana to heal. Some change that is. Now if you're like me and pots are cheating to you, then, you don't use them and, it's a real fight but, with pots, same as having heal, just using herbs instead of mana.

[Dreamer]

But barrier is mechanically different from pure HP. At least for a mage, there are Incentives to draining your barrier (slight, however). It fuels fire magic for example.

 

And if you play one of the two other classes?

[In Exile]

And if you play one of the two other classes?

I'm not sure I get what you mean. The other two classes never had the ability to heal.

[Chaos17]

The problem here is that anyone who played mage in the previous DA feel that the gameplay has been dumbed down.

 

Poof no more healer because [insert reason].

Poof no more other school magics because [insert reason].

Etc...