142 réponses à ce sujet

[UniformGreyColor]

Okay, let me ask here:

 

Was there any official, in-lore reason given why nearly all healing magic is suddenly gone from Thedas anywhere in the game? I didn't find anything... o_O?

 

Because DA:I is a cinematic video game that focuses on storytelling. 

[Dreamer]

That's mechanically identical to healing. Especially since you have infinite revives in this game.

If your view is that barrier is like healing, then what's what's the basis for the complaint?

And if it's different enough, what's wrong with moving away from the same old burst DMG vs. healing speed model?

 

This is exactly my point. Nothing changed mechanically, but they had to jump through hoops to explain this in the narrative.

 

"If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

 

It wasn't broken, evidenced by the fact that the systems are almost identical. My issue is that the reasoning behind the changes is flimsy at best, and causes too many problems with the game's narrative about magical healing.

[katokires]

...This changed because Bioware didn't think it was fun for the player....

Funny how Bioware used to make sense back then =)

[hong]

The thing is that I belive game could be harder with healing spells instead of having gazillion potions.

So... don't use potions.

[Aver88]

So... don't use potions.

 

I could also stop using armors, but I don't think that's the solution for unbalanced gameplay.

 

My point was that they wanted to balance this so called "combat reset", yet they gave us a lot of potion to do exactly that. If they would keep spells instead of potions, then effect would be the same, lore would be intact and there would be no constant backtracking to the camps.  

[Aver88]

Double post

[hong]

I could also stop using armors, but I don't think that's the solution for unbalanced gameplay.

There is nothing unbalanced about not chugging potions like a wino.
 

My point was that they wanted to balance this so called "combat reset", yet they gave us a lot of potion to do exactly that.

No. They gave a lot of potions so that people who couldn't be bothered to learn the new system would have a crutch to fall back on.

If they would keep spells instead of potions, then effect would be the same, lore would be intact and there would be no constant backtracking to the camps.

If you didn't use potions, you wouldn't have to backtrack to the camps.

[bluonblu]

I like the change.

As much as I love DAO, it has some faults. Such as the the ability to stock up on an almost infinite number of healing potions and breeze through any encounter with minimal difficulties. 

In DAI I'm forced to plan ahead, and it just feels more realistic (as much as I hate running out of potions in the middle of fighting a dragon, etc.)

 

I wouldn't mind seeing a similar restriction when it comes to the inventory either. I've always thought it ridiculous that a party of four could carry around a set number of items, regardless of what those were. For instance, 60 sets of armors...  

[CronoDragoon]

My point was that they wanted to balance this so called "combat reset", yet they gave us a lot of potion to do exactly that. If they would keep spells instead of potions, then effect would be the same, lore would be intact and there would be no constant backtracking to the camps.  

 

I'm confused. You say the game is easy on Nightmare with FF on but you are concerned about backtracking when you run out of potions? Using potions is a fail-state: it means you've done something wrong and now need to reset*. If you're failing so much to prevent damage to your party then I'm not sure the game really is easy for you.

 

* with the exception of when the companion AI sucks and causes you to take damage. Companion AI is a serious issue that needs addressing in DA4.

[Aver88]

I'm confused. You say the game is easy on Nightmare with FF on but you are concerned about backtracking when you run out of potions? Using potions is a fail-state: it means you've done something wrong and now need to reset*. If you're failing so much to prevent damage to your party then I'm not sure the game really is easy for you.

 

* with the exception of when the companion AI sucks and causes you to take damage. Companion AI is a serious issue that needs addressing in DA4.

 

My companions are main users of healing potions. Fights in really tight spaces are especially depressing and potion-consuming. I play mainly as a tank and in the most of fights I can easily live through the fight without using a single potion, but I must admit that during harder fights I use healing potions too. For example when I fight against bosses, dragons or harder rifts fights like arcane horror, revenant + 2 terrors.

 

I always have a lot of potions with myself to limit returning to camps as much as I can, but because of that I don't have a problem when things go south, because I have so many healing items that I can live through any damage.

 

I just think that healing spells would be better. They have re-use time, they consume mana and it might take time to cast them. Using spells also limit my damage output because I use mana and time for healing instead of attacking.

 

On other hand when something goes wrong I can drink one potion after another allowing me to soak insane amount of damage.

[CronoDragoon]

I just think that healing spells would be better. They have re-use time, they consume mana and it might take time to cast them. Using spells also limit my damage output because I use mana and time for healing instead of attacking.

Would mana then not regenerate outside of battle? If it doesn't, then we've simply swapped healing potions with lyrium potions. If it does, then we might as well bring back health regeneration after every fight and eliminate the step of using healing spells after a fight.

[Morroian]

3) Sorry, I misread your argument earlier. I thought you said why I focused on healing potions instead of focusing on offensive potions. Replying to your proper argument - I also mentioned in different topic that I'm really disappointed by lack of real tactics. For me combat in DA:I has multiple problems and healing is just one of them. I'm focusing on it, because this topic is about that. I was just surprised that devs explanation for removing healing spells was to prevent "resetting combat", because they gave us so many potion that it's easier than it was with spells, so I wanted to decided to discus about it.

 

Spot on, the whole argument that BW gave us about improving combat is specious given that we can still do it with potions if we really want and the combat is the worst in the series anyway. They've just made it into more busywork which is poor game design. They could have simply removed spirit healer as a spec and made healing spells harder to cast and achieved something similar 

 

For me personally it feels like a lot of people got too emotionally attached to a particular game (pick one) and now they have to tell the whole community how dissatisfied they are that this game is not a carbon copy of their favorite game. But yeah, I understand that people find something they really like and want to relive that memory for the rest of their life, but things change and people need to move on.

 

The thing is this is only the 3rd game in the same franchise, a franchise where world building is important.

 

Also, in almost every situation where you can get hit with a high damage spike, each class has skills to avoid damage at any time:

 

Warriors -> Block, Combat roll

Rogues -> Stealth, Evade, Flank Attack with upgrade (For DW rogues)

Mages -> Fade Step, Barrier

 

The current system gets you to stay alive by avoiding damage instead of staying alive by taking damage and casting healing spells. I prefer it this way.

 

For the player character maybe not for the whole party unless you want to micromanage every single fight due to the poor AI and lack of tactical options.

[Ridirkulous]

I really think healing magic should be possible. I've been playing Shadowrun which has both medkits, which function very much like potions, and magic. The difference between the two is that magic can only heal damage from the last attack received. If you don't heal in battle, then once an finished you'll instantly recover from your last wound. No need to wait for cool downs or regen. I can see something like this working in a game like Inquisition, the only issue with this would be that the healing spells themselves would not benefit from the magic stat.

[Morroian]

I don't see how having 15 useless abilities I will never use is better than having a single ability I will use constantly.

 

I'm not saying DAI doesn't have flaws in its game design, but giving me 100 abilities out of which I will be using only 2 is not an answer.

 

DA2 also had tons of abilities, I ended up using maximum up to 5 abilities per each class since I found other abilities redundant. Same goes for Origins. In DAI I actually wish there were more ability slots. So they did something right?

 

Nope thats simple a personal issue. DA2 managed to streamline out the useless spells from DAO mostly leaving us with mostly useful spells. On my main Hawke I had something like 18 spells and used most of them, variety is a good thing especially given BW are not great at combat design. The improvement in the ability trees was noted widely at the time which is why I was almost gobsmacked they changed it so much for the worst in DAI. The issue with DA2 was mainly in the restrictions they placed on obtaining some spells but they could be removed with mods. 

[ioannisdenton]

what? No healers again please! it is stupid! Do not want spam healing, i am not playing WoW. barriers and tank potioning works better and funner

[Imryll]

The original problem was that we were just spamming healing spells and they needed to have enemies burst us down really quickly in order to be a threat.

 

 

"You" may have been spamming healing spells.  "We" were not.  Time and mana used to cast heals were not available for CC and damage. Deciding what your mage should cast to optimize encounter outcome required judgment. The better your judgment the more health potions you got to sell.

[In Exile]

It's a new system.* You'll learn the ropes eventually. Once you get over the initial hurdle of unfamiliarity, a lot of the chore-ness goes away.


Yes, it's just you. Currently playing on Hard with a standard party consisting of Cass, Blackwall, one mage (I swap between Dorian and Solas based on my mood), and me, an archer assassin. Most fights, I never have, and have never had, a problem. Of course I'll eventually run out of potions, but that usually comes after a couple hours of roaming around.

On the Combat and Strategy board, you'll find the uber-l33t players talking about how they can solo dragons or how Nightmare is too easy. I am not one of them. However, I did make use of their knowledge to construct my party and tactics. You could do the same.


* Well, not that new, since it clearly existed in GW and other games before DAI.

I can't say I've ever really taken enough damage on hard to run out of potions. I came close during the prologue Pride Demon battle but that was it. Otherwise I might get as low as 2-3/8 before I hit a new camp or just need to fast travel elsewhere for a quest.

I find damage mitigation is really easy to use right. But I also micromanageme a lot.

[Nightdragon8]

I still see a ton of talk about how all these decisions were made for MP. Lets be honest here that is all just conjecture and assumptions.

really? I'm pretty sure that, allowing people to heal in MP would pretty much mean its just a threatless grindfest. I mean the mage then all they have to do is sit back and throw heals. Which would pretty much make DA:I an MMORPG 100%

 

Its clearly a design, as lore wise its thrown in our face that, "Mages/Magic can heal" in the very first mission in the Hinterlands. seriously way to twist the knife there BW

[In Exile]

really? I'm pretty sure that, allowing people to heal in MP would pretty much mean its just a threatless grindfest. I mean the mage then all they have to do is sit back and throw heals. Which would pretty much make DA:I an MMORPG 100%

Its clearly a design, as lore wise its thrown in our face that, "Mages/Magic can heal" in the very first mission in the Hinterlands. seriously way to twist the knife there BW

MP isnt PvP. And how is barrier/guard fest different?

[theluc76]

no healer mage to play, one choice less for the player.

[Jackal19851111]

For the player character maybe not for the whole party unless you want to micromanage every single fight due to the poor AI and lack of tactical options.

 

And that is why I have no complaints about the removal of the healing system.

 

My complaints lie solely in the lack of tactical options and poor AI (along with my usual PC gripes)

[DanteYoda]

At least with spammable healing spells we could focus on the story and progress... Now its just a too and fro from camps and a lovely grind... not fun at all, barriers are useless at low levels and really boring..

 

I feel like this game has been infected with Korean mmorpgitis..

[Giubba]

Okay, let me ask here:
 
Was there any official, in-lore reason given why nearly all healing magic is suddenly gone from Thedas anywhere in the game? I didn't find anything... o_O?

I think that any explanation would sound ridiculous, so they preferred to not mention it at all.

 
It's not gone for **** sake.
 
Because the blood mage spec it's not included in inquisition it doesn't mean that blood magic is stripped from the lore

[Lebanese Dude]

At least with spammable healing spells we could focus on the story and progress... Now its just a too and fro from camps and a lovely grind... not fun at all, barriers are useless at low levels and really boring..

 

I feel like this game has been infected with Korean mmorpgitis..

 

Stick it to casual or normal, disable friendly fire, and specialize all your mages in Spirit + Winter as you mindlessly destroy everything on your own. That's literally the equivalent of the mindless spambot healing in DAO that you require.
 

 

----

 

After two playthroughs I'm happy they went this direction. Every fight on Nightmare + FF-on matters. I can still half-ass fights and restock at camps if I'm feeling particularly lazy for some reason, but I still have to pay attention to not wipe.

[Lebanese Dude]

 
It's not gone for **** sake.
 
Because the blood mage spec it's not included in inquisition it doesn't mean that blood magic is stripped from the lore

 

Exactly. They're more aligned with the lore at the moment, with healing being a meticulous process that requires time and energy rather than a spambot spell that can be cast at will, as it should have always been.

 

Plus, healing isn't even gone. Reavers/Necromancers can self-heal and Knight-Enchanters have a focus heal spell that can be used in every major fight with the right build. Certain items can be found/created to provide healing qualities with masterworks.

 

Etc..