174 réponses à ce sujet

[JasonPogo]

The fact that we have no control over our stats and how to build our characters is a joke. It is just Horrible and shows how lazy and unimaganitive they have be ome with the class system. Want to build a warrior with high dexterity so they dodge most damage? Yeah don't bother we won't let you. Just play this generic class.

[In Exile]

I disagree. In part. I hated with an absolute passion this constant stat growth through out the game. It is more fun from a power gaming POV at first but it makes no sense.

SPECIAL in Fallout is the ideal. Everything else is pure gibberish from an RP perspective. The only relevant perspective is build and power gaming and at that point it doesn't matter how you manipulate your stats.

Edit: Also dodge is no longer stat based. DEX and CON are now damage mitigation stats. If you want to dodge you have to do it in real time which, IMO, makes a lot more sense in a 3D RPG.

[NoForgiveness]

Nope. I'm glad it's gone. It really was pointless.

[Remmirath]

I both agree and disagree. I agree, in the sense that -- assuming ability scores are going to be present (which I do prefer) -- I believe that we should be able to assign them, or at least have some control over them, at the beginning of the game. I disagree in the sense that I don't think that more-or-less infinite stat increasing makes sense, and I never have. Leave that to special circumstances.

[TheImmortalBeaver]

I actually like this, as it forces specialization. Customization has its place, for sure, but I often feel that overdoing such options can screw with balance, or allow for jack-of-all-trade builds (warriors getting both archery and dual-wielding in DAO annoyed the crap out of me, for instance). Balance is an issue with the genre in general anyway, so making it even worse is not something I'm a fan of.

[Neon Rising Winter]

I've had no problem building a warrior that dodges most damage, but I've done it looking to skills not stats. Personally I prefer this approach, although I can see if you like a more stat based style it might be a bit of a stumbling block.

[Maverick827]

Sadly, most people don't like to make "character builds" anymore.  They'll plan out a backstory and a personality, but they don't want to touch numbers.

 

There was a time when we did both. 

 

I wonder when we'll lose the ability to select skills and powers, too.  You just level up and automatically unlock a skill, and you'll have access to every skill available, with the only limitation being an 8 bar slot.  That's how all of the MMORPGs are doing it these days, at least.

[Sanunes]

Sadly, most people don't like to make "character builds" anymore.  They'll plan out a backstory and a personality, but they don't want to touch numbers.

 

There was a time when we did both. 

 

I wonder when we'll lose the ability to select skills and powers, too.  You just level up and automatically unlock a skill, and you'll have access to every skill available, with the only limitation being an 8 bar slot.  That's how all of the MMORPGs are doing it these days, at least.

 

Yeah, but then people would whine about how the animations aren't different between the different classes or how a Dagger Warrior isn't any different then a Dagger Rogue or how the Dagger Warrior needs to be nerfed because they can do the damage of a Dagger Rogue, but be unkillable.

 

I like how Inquisition has done it, it allows you to look at what racial option you pick for that bonus and then also the bonuses from skills, its different then what some people want, but if we gave everyone exactly what they want we would just have every game being the exact same thing and that was what everyone seems to be complaining about nowadays.

[Aetheria]

Worse than THAC0? Worse than The Witcher's sex cards? Worse than having Vaan be the protagonist of Final Fantasy XII?

 

Not convinced.

[Nemesis788450]

i personally like the system and never missed that

[BubbleDncr]

The way the previous DA games were set up, it was pretty set on how you were supposed to level up your character stats. 

 

Warrior - everything into strength, unless you thought you were dying too much, then put some in constitution

Mage - everything into magic, unless you throught you were running out of mana too much, then put some in willpower (unless you were a blood mage, then put it in constitution)

Rogue - I keep forgetting which does which, but put enough points into whatever one (cunning or dex) that gives you a high enough crit rate (I usually went with 50%), and then put everything else in the other one (for your crit multiplier). 

 

It was so mindless that I don't miss having to do it myself. 

[Greenface21]

It's weird that adjustable stats are considered a staple of RPG genre. They tend to make players focus too much on the meta-game rather then actual role playing. Bioware is going in the right direction with perks and skills, they just need to increase the amount. 

[Epyon5757]

Having or not having stats is inconsequential to whether or not a game qualifies as an RPG, and honestly, In many RPG games with the stats mechanic, you can't equip top level equipment without throwing almost everything into one or two stats unique for that class.

I prefer the system where added specs come from crafting weapons and armor. It gives greater control over the specific damages and buffs my character gets than assigning points to a category does. It requires you to think...tactically (gasp!). I would even argue this system gives you more control over your character, not less.

Mass Effect and DAI do not have controllable stats, and it works well for those games. Complaining about this, of all things, is getting up there in terms of pickiness.

[AlanC9]

It's weird that adjustable stats are considered a staple of RPG genre.

How did that happen, anyway? D&D 3.0 had a little of it, but the first game I ever played that went nuts with this crap was Morrowind. I presume that wasn't where it was invented, though. Anyone know where this concept came from.

[Epyon5757]

How did that happen, anyway? D&D 3.0 had a little of it, but the first game I ever played that went nuts with this crap was Morrowind. I presume that wasn't where it was invented, though. Anyone know where this concept came from.

Good question. It's like they borrowed the stats function from the career section of every sports game ever. Works better in sports games than it does in RPG.

[DLaren]

There were so many unfortunate design choices for DA:I it's hard to say which one is the worst...but the lack of stat distribution is definitely in the running.

[Maconbar]

BW should have eliminated initial stat choice and adopted an initial random stat role system like that of original d&d. All other approaches to RPGs are invalid.

[Aurok]

The attribute system in Divinity is one of the best I've seen. Most stats are useful to any character in one way or another, so choosing which to level up becomes an actual choice.

It always seems kinda pointless to me when there is blatantly one or two 'correct' stats for your character and the rest barely even apply to you.

Given DAI's priority with the stat sytem was clearly to prevent people being able to mess up their character, I don't know why they didn't drop the archaic and redundant (in this case) RPG labels and simplify the language. Constitution = Health, Strength = Physical Damage, Magic = Magic Damage, Cunning = Crit Chance, Dexterity = Crit Damage etc.

It's not like 'Strength' performs a variety of other functions in this game (Inventory limit, weapon requirement, moving boulders out of the way, whatever), so the game may as well just use the concise label in the first place. For a game with such a simple, casual-friendly combat system it sure does use a lot of ambiguous language to present it.

[mfr001]

BW should have eliminated initial stat choice and adopted an initial random stat role system like that of original d&d. All other approaches to RPGs are invalid.

A system which can force you to play a class which you don't want to is not perfec. It is even less suitable for computer gaming than p&p. Of course, computer games allow you to re-roll ad nauseum so you can get the stats you want, and be bored out of your mind while you do so.

[Paul E Dangerously]

Having or not having stats is inconsequential to whether or not a game qualifies as an RPG, and honestly, In many RPG games with the stats mechanic, you can't equip top level equipment without throwing almost everything into one or two stats unique for that class.

I prefer the system where added specs come from crafting weapons and armor. It gives greater control over the specific damages and buffs my character gets than assigning points to a category does. It requires you to think...tactically (gasp!). I would even argue this system gives you more control over your character, not less.

Mass Effect and DAI do not have controllable stats, and it works well for those games. Complaining about this, of all things, is getting up there in terms of pickiness.

 

Not in any form or fashion, it does not. Especially given that the armors you're allowed to wear are only geared for the stats you're "supposed" to use.

[UniformGreyColor]

@OP, did you not just start a thread that was bashing the open world aspect of this game? What are you on about hating this game so much?

[Reymoose]

@OP, did you not just start a thread that was bashing the open world aspect of this game? What are you on about hating this game so much?

 

Customers who criticize and give feedback (positive or negative, harsh or mild) tend to be the biggest fans of a given product.

 

You criticize the aspects of anything you like, love or have some type of engagement with. Ex: Parents to children.

[UniformGreyColor]

Customers who criticize and give feedback (positive or negative, harsh or mild) tend to be the biggest fans of a given product.

 

You criticize the aspects of anything you like, love or have some type of engagement with. Ex: Parents to children.

 

I don't know if I should take that seriously or not. In any case, I disagree. I find encouraging good things is always a better way to get the point across instead of criticizing. It is very easy to criticize and not easy to encourage. In an environment that is much of the time toxic (wherever humans reside), much of the time a positive remark can do a better job of encouraging good behavior and steering the person or party in a direction that is more favorable because it is less harmful to the person receiving correction. I am not out to change the world with this thinking because there need to be criticism for the encouragement to work properly. Having an all positive society would be very good for moral, but I think people are generally pessimistic by nature and so being positive all the time would cause some minds to break. I'm just saying a good word goes a long way.

[Aulis Vaara]

Customers who criticize and give feedback (positive or negative, harsh or mild) tend to be the biggest fans of a given product.
 
You criticize the aspects of anything you like, love or have some type of engagement with. Ex: Parents to children.

This is true. If you don't like something, you're not going to put time and effort into it. That would be a pointless waste of your time.

[Ravenfeeder]

They should have just got rid of stats altogether. There are plenty of RPG's out there that are just skill based and they work fine Plus they are my preferred option. IRL 'stats' come from using your body and mind in certain ways, normally related to the skills you are using, not the other way around as with many stat based RPG's. You're better at fighting because you're strong? No you're strong because you regularly work out with large heavy bits of metal.

 

However the system they have at the moment seems like a bad compromise. CRPG fans want stats, so lets give them stats. Can't do anything with them though.

 

As an aside I mourn to loss of character dodging at the expense of player dodging. It's the character who has the combat skills not me, I shouldn't have to wiggle my mouse manically, it bears no relation to real sword-fighting or brawling, so why am I doing it?