174 réponses à ce sujet

[RSX Titan]

Lol. There was a time when every RPG on the market didn't have player adjustable stats. I don't mind either approach.

[tmp7704]

I found stat customization through the gear you can equip sufficient, personally.

[Degenerate Rakia Time]

personally i think the addition of controllable stat growth was the worst decision in gaming history, they should however let us customize them at the start

[UniformGreyColor]

personally i think the addition of controllable stat growth was the worst decision in gaming history, they should however let us customize them at the start

 

Watch, some devs out there will say, "lets let the player choose which stats they prefer and then the game will give them more of those stats as they level up." Wait, that has been done before, hasn't it.

 

I really don't mind either way. A game can be good with a lot of stats to be able to mold to your liking or not. It just depends on how the Devs use what numbers are in the game to determine if it works or not.

[Darkly Tranquil]

I much prefer being able to assign my stats directly than having to mess around with crafting gear with particular stats or choosing certain spells or talents and getting them as a "perk". Removing the option to assign stats is just another part of the simplification and automation of game mechanics that is so prevalent in Inquisition.

[Fantazm1978]

oh look. more hyperbole.

[BammBamm]

maybe you can complain about the design choices bioware has made, but surely the controllable stat grow is one of the most minor ones. there was no freedom in spending your attribut points in da:o or da2, if you look at the end of the game at character stats i'm pretty sure 90% would have the same +-10% stats

 

but why they enabled it is a mystery too. it doesnt advance the game in any way and take a little part of (absolutely unnecessary) freedom away

[EngineerEd]

If you want to customize your primary stats get good armor/weapon schematics and then you have the utility slots to customize. It's pretty easy to get very high stats, IIRC my DW Rogue got up to >70 dexterity at level 17, and if I chose to use masterwork dual-blade schematic instead of the non-masterwork version (2 more utility slots at the cost of 2 offense slots), as well as masterwork ornate dual dagger grips, I could be at around 120 dexterity. 

 

 

This is yet another reason why crafting sort of breaks the game if you're diligent about getting good schematics and the best possible crafting materials.

 

With crafting not only can you get to way higher primary stats (str, dex, magic, etc.) than you ever could in previous games (3 stat points per level in DAO), but you can do so basically as soon as you can get to Emprise and Hissing Wastes. So at level 13 or so you could be rolling around with >100 dexterity as a DW rogue. That's insane.

[panda_express12]

Its unfortunate. AAA "RPGs" are now action games with small role playing elements. Look at The Elder Scrolls, they completely removed attributes altogether in Skyrim. I wouldn't be surprised if DA 4 also removed stats completely.

 

The only way to get traditional RPGs nowadays is through indie developers. Us old school gamers just have to get used to it.

[Korva]

I can't agree with the OP, but I guess it depends on one's definition of "RPG". For me it's all about the characters and the story, and I'd be perfectly happy to just get rid of stats and items and especially stats-on-items altogether, or at least have their importance heavily reduced because I just see absolutely no point in a pointless escalation of numbers, be they customizable or not.

 

Jade Empire got a lot of criticism in its day, and some of it was certainly deserved, but I found the absence of items except for basic weapon style choice and a bare minimum of stat-fiddling with Dragon Amulet gems very refreshing.

 

The "RPG" genre is a pretty big umbrella covering anything from hacky-slashy-single-player-action-romp to tactical squad- and turn-based combat simulator, and anything from miniscule fig-leaf of a world and story to heavy story-focus. Saying that any one feature ruins or defines the genre ignores the sheer variety of said genre.

[UniformGreyColor]

Its unfortunate. AAA "RPGs" are now action games with small role playing elements. Look at The Elder Scrolls, they completely removed attributes altogether in Skyrim. I wouldn't be surprised if DA 4 also removed stats completely.

 

The only way to get traditional RPGs nowadays is through indie developers. Us old school gamers just have to get used to it.

 

I thought the way stats and perks worked in Skyrim were pretty neat. A different take on an old system. I'm not an old school gamer like you probably, but I was heavy into FF and Origins when I first stated playing games which are pretty highly stacked in the stats department. I think the stat allocation works for DA:I, but I totally agree with Sylvius the Mad that the game def needs documentation. Its like you need to be a brain surgeon to figure out what all the stats do exactly. 

[ashwind]

The fact that we have no control over our stats and how to build our characters is a joke. It is just Horrible and shows how lazy and unimaganitive they have be ome with the class system. Want to build a warrior with high dexterity so they dodge most damage? Yeah don't bother we won't let you. Just play this generic class.

 

Firstly, Dex does not allow you to dodge better in DA:I, understandable being a semi-action RPG. You want to dodge, you have to do it yourself. Secondly, you can make a Dex, Cunning or Wisdom Warrior to some degree. You just need to forge class independent light/medium armor. Too bad I cant have str/con thief/mage.

[Cyonan]

My general stat allocation in Origins went "Get Willpower/Endurance until I feel good about my health/stamina, then dump everything into one stat". Which one stat I picked was dependent on my class/spec. I can't really say that I miss it since I wasn't doing a whole lot of customizing anyway.

 

I would love to see more numbers on what the stats do exactly. I mean, I was able to figure it out but it shouldn't really have needed testing in the first place.

[bzombo]

I actually like this, as it forces specialization. Customization has its place, for sure, but I often feel that overdoing such options can screw with balance, or allow for jack-of-all-trade builds (warriors getting both archery and dual-wielding in DAO annoyed the crap out of me, for instance). Balance is an issue with the genre in general anyway, so making it even worse is not something I'm a fan of.

Then they could have made stat growth occur less often to prevent it from becoming absurd. Maybe one point every 5 levels. I think taking it completely out of our hands was a bad idea.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Worse than THAC0? Worse than The Witcher's sex cards? Worse than having Vaan be the protagonist of Final Fantasy XII?

Not convinced.

THAC0 was great.

But games with THAC0 also didn't have stat growth. You got your starting stats and they only changed as your character aged or had bad things happen to him.

Stat growth is the lazy design.

[Kantr]

I like not having to micromanage my stats hemming and hawing about wether to have a glib tongue or kill people in one hit

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Sadly, most people don't like to make "character builds" anymore.  They'll plan out a backstory and a personality, but they don't want to touch numbers.

 

There was a time when we did both. 

 

I wonder when we'll lose the ability to select skills and powers, too.  You just level up and automatically unlock a skill, and you'll have access to every skill available, with the only limitation being an 8 bar slot.  That's how all of the MMORPGs are doing it these days, at least.

 

Side effect of mainstreaming and popularity increase....Things become simplified for simpletons and for profit$ sake...

 

Sigh...miss the days when video games were actually challenging and not very popular...

[hwlrmnky]

I'm enjoying the judicious application of passives to a build. I think it's pretty cool.

[SofaJockey]

I'm glad it's gone.

 

Can't wear this armour because it has 46 strength and I'm 44 strength. pfft....

[Morroian]

They should have just got rid of stats altogether. There are plenty of RPG's out there that are just skill based and they work fine

 

 

To do that you have to have meaningful skills that are based around character types. Skyrim did that well IMHO. I'm not confident BW would be able to do it properly or even from a game design standpoint even properly understand what is required. 

[Remmirath]

I'm glad it's gone.
 
Can't wear this armour because it has 46 strength and I'm 44 strength. pfft....

That wasn't great, no (or at least, requirements that high wasn't; I feel that some, fairly low, stat requirements are entirely reasonable) -- but how is level gated equipment any better? At least with the strength requirement, you could assume that the armourm is heavy. The level restriction is just an arbitrary way to try to enforce game balance (which wouldn't even be so much of a problem if they'd scale the numbers back down to a tighter grouping again, because then there wouldn't be so much difference between early-game and mid-game armour). Also, now you can't wear armour that isn't allowed to your class at all, regardless of whether you qualify or not. What legitimate reason is there that a rogue cannot, ever, wear scale mail? Or even more, that a warrior can never figure out leather armour?

[jagabond]

I'm glad it's gone.

 

Can't wear this armour because it has 46 strength and I'm 44 strength. pfft....

Ah, the good ol' days of Dragon Age 2, drinking the Maker's sigh and then: nudity.

[UniformGreyColor]

That wasn't great, no (or at least, requirements that high wasn't; I feel that some, fairly low, stat requirements are entirely reasonable) -- but how is level gated equipment any better? At least with the strength requirement, you could assume that the armourm is heavy. The level restriction is just an arbitrary way to try to enforce game balance (which wouldn't even be so much of a problem if they'd scale the numbers back down to a tighter grouping again, because then there wouldn't be so much difference between early-game and mid-game armour). Also, now you can't wear armour that isn't allowed to your class at all, regardless of whether you qualify or not. What legitimate reason is there that a rogue cannot, ever, wear scale mail? Or even more, that a warrior can never figure out leather armour?

 

That's like saying a pirate should wear a mail suite because he felt it would protect him better against his victims. It just does not make sense for a mage to wear heavy armor unless that is his area of expertise.

[In Exile]

THAC0 was great.

But games with THAC0 also didn't have stat growth. You got your starting stats and they only changed as your character aged or had bad things happen to him.

Stat growth is the lazy design.

I use to hate THAC0 when I first played BG1. Because I didn't get it. Now that I do I like it a lot more - it makes for super easy mental math.

[Giantdeathrobot]

I disagree. In part. I hated with an absolute passion this constant stat growth through out the game. It is more fun from a power gaming POV at first but it makes no sense.

SPECIAL in Fallout is the ideal. Everything else is pure gibberish from an RP perspective. The only relevant perspective is build and power gaming and at that point it doesn't matter how you manipulate your stats.

Edit: Also dodge is no longer stat based. DEX and CON are now damage mitigation stats. If you want to dodge you have to do it in real time which, IMO, makes a lot more sense in a 3D RPG.

 

This so much. The SPECIAL system was great because you knew what each stat means; 5 Strength is average, 1 is wet noodle, 10 is Hercules level. Clear, concise, meaningful.

 

Dragon Age's, isn't. What's 40 Strength compared to 30? to 10? To 100? Does your character going from 15 Strength to 90 over the course of the game means he's now 6 times as strong? Apart from arbitrary benchmakrs from armor, it doesn,t actually mean anything.

 

Besides, all allocated stat builds ever do is pigeonhold you into a pattern. Stack one stat, maybe a second one, and you can't go wrong. That's frankly boring and utterly unconsequential to me. I'd rather pick between abilities and passives and whatnot.