174 réponses à ce sujet

[Medhia_Nox]

I think hyperbole is the worst grammatical form for sentence structure ever.

[In Exile]

This argument would work if they really focused on role playing, but that took a huge back seat to exploration, and unrewarding fetch-quests.

What are you talking about? The reaction wheel was a phenomenal innovation. This is the fist RPG since ever when you're asked about your own views and feelings on things. You can RP to your hearts content as a result!

This is the first RPG when you get to express emotions on a consistent basis and get NPCs to react. The RPG content is as strong as its ever been.

[Vox Draco]

I saw the same uproar about stats being removed when Skyrim came along. Never missed allocating points into strength though.

I played BG 1 + 2 where you can only define your char with stats right at the beginning, and mostly here it is also tied to the class you wanna play (don't see a lot of people rolling a wizard with -8 intelligence...)

I enjoyed the Witcher-series, and here it also has become obsolete with part 2

 

I could possibly go on, but my point is: Spending points (hah!) is ultimatley a rather (wait for it...) pointless idea anyway! It gives me nothing if my char has 24 or 25 strength, its just numbers on a sheet I hardly look at. I#d rather get something like a spell or skill as a reward when levelling up, something that is more staisfying.

 

The only satisfying thing about attribute-points always was that certain items had restrictions: you needed 35 strength for that awesome-armor...I can live without that minor satisfaction...

[Paul E Dangerously]

The only satisfying thing about attribute-points always was that certain items had restrictions: you needed 35 strength for that awesome-armor...I can live without that minor satisfaction...

 

You could get around that. By the time I left Lothering, more often than not, I met the requirements for everything but the highest end (42 STR) gear. And in DAO, you could gain more by tomes, quests, and item boosts as well. You could wear a 42 STR armor at level seven if you knew how. It's actually really flexible.

 

DAII and DAI replaces those with a level cap - a hard level cap. If you find something that's actually better than what you have now - it's gonna have a level requirement. You're up you-know-what creek without a paddle, because no way in hell are you getting around that. Crafting, now, has no level restrictions. Yes, let's actively punish people for exploring by giving them stuff they can't use, because it might make things easier. But it's just fine to let them craft something that will do the same damn thing.

 

Why?

[Darkly Tranquil]

Not really. BW basically just moved stat attribution on level up to stat attribution via crafting.
 
With crafting you can specialize your character far more than you ever could in Origins or DA2 by stats on level up.

Wasn't crafting supposed to be completely optional, though? If you are depending on gear for your stat boosts to get you through the latter part of the game, crafting ceases to be something you can choose to ignore and becomes required. When stat boosting is baked into the character levelling directly, the player gets the boosts regardless of whether he does crafting.

[Vox Draco]

Why?

 

Because, as far as I am concerned, crafting SUCKS in EVERY game I played and I hate it with all my heart...I have no problem at all to find an armor that I can only use two levels ahead (or 10 points of strength ahead, I see not that much difference here), but crafting? I'll never get teh fascination some people must have about it, otherwise it wouldn't be part of so many game by now ...

[KaiserShep]

Because, as far as I am concerned, crafting SUCKS in EVERY game I played and I hate it with all my heart...I have no problem at all to find an armor that I can only use two levels ahead (or 10 points of strength ahead, I see not that much difference here), but crafting? I'll never get teh fascination some people must have about it, otherwise it wouldn't be part of so many game by now ...

 

I would probably be indifferent to crafting, if not for its usefulness when going on a dragon hunting spree. I sort of enjoy being able to make three of the best armors for my class crafted specifically to resist the special attacks of each type of dragon, instead of just relying on the accessories. I guess if this was achieved simply by enchanting the armor with runes like Awakening and DA2 I'd be fine.

 

On a sillier note, I do like the custom naming option.

 

But screw crafting the murder knife. My Inquisitor's a friggin rogue. She should have like a million of them in a box under her bed or something.

[Vox Draco]

I would probably be indifferent to crafting, if not for its usefulness when going on a dragon hunting spree. I sort of enjoy being able to make three of the best armors for my class crafted specifically to resist the special attacks of each type of dragon, instead of just relying on the accessories. I guess if this was achieved simply by enchanting the armor with runes like Awakening and DA2 I'd be fine.

 

As soon as you can craft stuff, I think you have a problem in a game, item- and balance-wise. I personally rate stuff higher that I found, that I fought for, that have some kind of story attached to them. That was miles better done in DAO.

 

With crafting, I always start, have some idea, and then...some ingredient is missing. The colour is awful for the stat I would like. I can "mastercraft" but the result is random, maybe valuable ingredients lost. Then the schematic is only tier 2, where is tier 3? Oh, here we go, it looks awful. Maybe I should delay the crafting just a bit longer until I found this or that, not to waste anything ...just like with scrolls and potions in Baldurs Gate, in the end, I never used them...

 

Those are just my personal problems with crafting. Not speaking about the whole balance of things in comparison to dropped loot. It just takes away this feeling of "Whoao, what a friggin cool armor that boss had!" if you can simply Tool-time your own at the workbench at home ... I hope futire titles in DA significantly reduce this, but I have not much hope, if even Shooters like Farboringcry have you "craft" your wallets to collect money ^^

[Morroian]

I think otherwise, choosing between interesting passives is far, far better in my books than adding +3 Magic at every single level 

 

But not having control over stat allocation at character creation which was my point because thats what happens in the SPECIAL system. And I don't think the semblance of control that DAI gives us results in any meaningfully different builds.

[Morroian]

Early crpgs did not have the ability to assign stats period outside of character creation. D & D rulesets from 1 to 3.5 did not allow changes to the stats unless it was a very special circumstance like a wish or ioun stone. So DAI is actually going back to a system that was used in Bioware games like BG1, BG2, and NWN. It has nothing to do with simplification or automation of the game mechanics

 

Its not the same because we don't have control over stat allocation at character creation.

[BlacJAC74]

Its not the same because we don't have control over stat allocation at character creation.

 

Well, you do have control over stat allocation in CC.  That's exactly what you're doing when you opt for a mage over a warrior or a rogue over a mage.  Add to that, passives within each class then bolster your stat allocation further.

 

I have no idea why people complain about this when the vast majority just pump most stat points into the same stats.  There really was no unique builds.  For example, in DA:O it was almost set in stone how everyone built a mage, warrior etc around stats.  At least how it is now, you're forced to take a different skill set if you want to go for dexterity over say cunning early on. 

[SNascimento]

If you want a warrior that dodges most damage you pick the right abilities and use your skill in gameplay. 

 

[bluonblu]

I don't really miss directly assigning stats. In DAO I would use any points for standard builds (magic and willpower for a mage, etc.) and when it comes to picking abilities in DAI, I can still get the same results. - For me an RPG has always been about imagining the world, creating a backstory for my "hero" and getting into events. I see how it could be annoying to some, but personally I like this design choice.   

 

The loss of the varied abilities is also a bit "meh". I've played 20+ stories to end in DAO and there are some abilities I've never picked during any of these.  

 

On the other hand, I don't really see why specialisation would be this strictly enforced. When it comes to RPG-s, I always found it frustrating that a warrior could only ever be good at fighting (here, only a single type!), etc. I wish they would've gone more in the direction of Skyrim on this one, but oh well...    

[Malkavian]

Normally, i would agree with the OP, but i honestly don't think it is necessary for DA:I. considering how usless stat points are in this game. In fact, i would go as far to say that stat system is completely unnecessary considering the way you level up, which isn't much different then say shadow of mordor. You level up, you pick your active/passive, you move on, and in the end you can't go wrong no matter what you pick. Sure some skills synergies well with each other but the simple truth is, you can't go wrong.

 

Perhaps in multiplayer, picking skills has more meaning but i never played in multi so i can't really talk about it.

[Teddie Sage]

I'm actually really glad it's gone. So tedious trying to get the right build when now the game can do that for you.

[BammBamm]

Normally, i would agree with the OP, but i honestly don't think it is necessary for DA:I. considering how usless stat points are in this game. In fact, i would go as far to say that stat system is completely unnecessary considering the way you level up, which isn't much different then say shadow of mordor. You level up, you pick your active/passive, you move on, and in the end you can't go wrong no matter what you pick. Sure some skills synergies well with each other but the simple truth is, you can't go wrong.

 

Perhaps in multiplayer, picking skills has more meaning but i never played in multi so i can't really talk about it.

 

exactly. controllable stat progression is only necessary when the game is complex in his mechanics and/or have a high difficulty so that max/min is a thing. it was unnecessary in da:o and would be even more in da:i. give me a game with deep mechanics and i would love to tweak and improve every little value, but its dragon age and had only a alibi function since the beginning.

i would love to have deep mechanics in a game like this, but reality is the audience would be way smaller and so the game would be either way not the same. so i play da:i for what its good at and play other games for complex mechanics because they are good at it.

 

and distribute stats at level up is in no way a rpg thing

[Darkly Tranquil]

If you want a warrior that dodges most damage you pick the right abilities and use your skill in gameplay.

Hard to dodge when you are controlling another character at the time. This is why action combat doesn't work for a party based game; you can't personally be in control of each character all the time, and the AI isn't good enough to fill in. DAI is trying to have Dark Souls Lite action combat, but that only works when the player has direct control 100% of the time.

[Master of the Deck]

At first, I didn't like it either.  But after playing for awhile (on my 2nd character, in-game time 148hrs), I like the new system and it makes sense in an action oriented and story driven RPG.  Don't get me wrong, I love older RPGs with all the stats, skills, dice rolls, trying to make that perfect character.  In DA:I, those options just aren't needed.

 

Besides, if you really, really want to increase your other stats, you can with the right materials and schematics.  Depending upon which cloth/leather/metal you choose, when creating arms or legs for you armor, you can add just about any stat you want.

[Darkly Tranquil]

I'm actually really glad it's gone. So tedious trying to get the right build when now the game can do that for you.

To you that was tedious, to me that was a fun aspect of the game. Gaming the mechanics to come up with janky OP builds was something that added to Origins replay value.

The thing is, there is no reason why we can't both have what we want; they had it in DA2, it was called "Auto Level Up". You could have the game assign stats in the "officially" optimal way if you just wanted to move on, or you could assign them yourself. I see no reason why that option could not continue to exist.

[xkg]

and distribute stats at level up is in no way a rpg thing

 

So I guess some of the most popular RPGs like DnD, GURPS, Vampire etc. all have it by accident, not just because it is, amongst other things, one of the RPGs mechanics that people like.

Good to have your own POV just don't confuse it with general norms.

[In Exile]

Its not the same because we don't have control over stat allocation at character creation.

Why is the option to build a trash character so essential? I would agree with you if DA used a system like SPECIAL, where your initial stats had important downstream effects on combat and RP.

However, the stats are entirely confined to combat effect. Your only choice is between a good or trash build. Item equipment let's you do the same. You get an equal amount of customisability. And the system makes 0 sense either way.

[In Exile]

So I guess some of the most popular RPGs like DnD, GURPS, Vampire etc. all have it by accident, not just because it is, amongst other things, one of the RPGs mechanics that people like.
Good to have your own POV just don't confuse it with general norms.

That's not a great argument since some of those rulesets are trash. D&D in particular. It's the COD of P&P.

[Medhia_Nox]

@xkg:  So because everyone does it... it's necessary?  

 

And out of the RPGs you listed... only Vampire (White Wolf games) has a strong sense of what it means to possess those points.  

 

They're just numbers that should, eventually, be replaced with:  "Dim" "Average" "Smart"  or "Weak" "Average" "Strong".  They have no meaning outside of the pluses they give to your character.  They're a visual gaming way to simulate action... if other avenues are available, there is nothing inherently wrong with exploring them. 

 

They're pitiful for roleplaying because they supposedly encompass "everything about strength" or "everything about intelligence" which is, of course, preposterous.  They're as antiquated as D&D alignments - which, for me, does not mean they should be removed.  I believe there is a significant place for alignment... in the gaming area of the game.  For roleplaying - nearly all the gaming aspects "skills" "attributes" and "alignments" show their significant failures. 

 

Note:  There's a not insignificant group of D&D gamers who think the stats are irrelevant and D&D should just move to signifying the bonuses.  

[Daeion]

Early crpgs did not have the ability to assign stats period outside of character creation. D & D rulesets from 1 to 3.5 did not allow changes to the stats unless it was a very special circumstance like a wish or ioun stone. So DAI is actually going back to a system that was used in Bioware games like BG1, BG2, and NWN. It has nothing to do with simplification or automation of the game mechanics

I started with 3.0 and every 4 levels you got a new star point to put where you wanted. The post you quoted didn't say anything about changing where the stars were assigned after they had been assigned.

[Swordfishtrombone]

I'm glad it's gone.

 

Can't wear this armour because it has 46 strength and I'm 44 strength. pfft....

 

Yeah, I don't miss that either.

 

However, now we have "can't wear this armor I found because it has minimum level of 11 and I'm level 9". This wouldn't be too bad, except pretty much across the board, by the time you get to that minimum level, you can craft something so significantly better that you have no use for the armor anymore.

 

The level limits should be dropped by at least a level, across the board, or found items - at least the uniques - buffed.