We know that the Dalish have their history wrong, that they only seem to remember the good parts about their gods. At first I didn't think that made sense, but then I thought, who would have been most able to survive not only their infighting when their gods were sealed away, but also live through being made slaves by the Imperium? The elves that had been treated the worst would not of lived through that many battles, the only ones who would be fit enough and healthy enough would of been those that had been favored, those that had received the best treatment by their gods. They would be the ones who began telling their children of the gods, if all they ever cared to see was their own better treatment of course their eventual descendants wouldn't know about the horrible treatment of those who died long ago and never had children to share their side of the story with.
Reasons the Dalish have it so wrong
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#2
Posté 24 décembre 2014 - 01:39
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#5
Posté 24 décembre 2014 - 02:38
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The Dalish are kinda like the people that worship DA:O.
Totally true. I love DA:O but it is not nearly as perfect as people seem to remember it being. I love all 3 games for what they are, and they all have faults and serious charms as well. Great series!
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#6
Posté 24 décembre 2014 - 02:40
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I wonder who's going to be poster here in the near future?
#7
Posté 24 décembre 2014 - 02:41
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I'm really not surprised that Dalish stories of their own history are so distorted. Even without the destruction done to their culture over the years, between Tevinter and the march on the Dales, the fact is the further away they are from these events proper, the more they drift into the realm of stories and legends. I mean, just take a look at how patchwork our own history is - even events from the last few decades are twisted and reinterpreted, and people who lived through these things are still alive and kicking. It just gets worse with the distance of time. This or that detail gets dropped, another gets reemphasized, legends get tossed with fact and vice versa... I totally believe the Dalish history being as twisted and distorted as it's gotten.
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#8
Posté 24 décembre 2014 - 03:40
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I also believe that it was supporters of the Gods who actually ended remembering most of their history. And here's why :
I think that Solas/the Dread Wolf was not a "God" in the same time than most of the other, or more accurately "ascended" after the others. It would explain why he rebelled against the others when he saw how power corrupted them. It could explain why Fen'Harel hadn't "worshippers" like the other gods and ended in a bad light in Dalatian legends. It is also possible that he spearheaded a revolution but refused to become the ruler of it, thus entering "in uthenera" either because sealing the gods costed him too much energy or simply refused to replace them as a sole ruler, for he feared what power would turn him into.
Of course, it all ended badly, for without a clear leader, Revolution often end in factions warring one another for dominance, and probably destroyed each others and Arlathan, while the would be Tevinter encroached on their borders. Plagued by new hatred, the elves probably never managed to unite again against the humans and what remained of their nation was destroyed. It possibly why Fen'Harel ended hated in the Dalatian legends : he led the rebellion but vanished when he was deemed necessary, so the survivors of the other gods' followers told their own tales about the Dread Wolf, and since slavery at the hands of humans followed the Revolution, those tales took root easily. It's maybe why Solas is so angry with the Dalatians : the legends they tell are practically a victory for the ones he defeated, the other "gods"
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#9
Posté 24 décembre 2014 - 05:40
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They might have it wrong but that doesn't mean they're wrong. Elves are a systematically oppressed class. If they cling to the past, it's because they've faced horrors like genocide, and they're trying to make sure that some part of their identity and heritage survives. That's admirable and respectable.
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#10
Posté 24 décembre 2014 - 06:12
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Re DA:O--it doesn't take nostalgia to remember it. I replayed it last month and it's every bit as good as I remember it being, lol. Do we have to shoehorn fan wars into every thread?
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#11
Posté 24 décembre 2014 - 06:21
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It's been thousands of years
Did anyone really expect them to remember everything? Maybe that's because I actually tried to do some history research from time to time but in my opinion saying that "a x culture got everything wrong lol they suck" just because they know for sure only about 50% of it is insulting to any historician or an member of any culture. Ever
That's not how history keepings works. It's never 100%
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#12
Posté 24 décembre 2014 - 06:38
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A population of deluded slaves or deluded former slaves...and that is what the Dalish are....Are not going to get their histories right...
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#13
Posté 24 décembre 2014 - 06:39
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#15
Posté 24 décembre 2014 - 06:42
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They Dalish don't even have it 10% right.
In your hateful imagination, maybe?
Really. Such an approach is insulting to anyone who actually tries to study history, do archeological research or is simply a member of culture which didn't preserve much of its history.
People get history wrong and right all the time
The dalish also specialize mostly in oral traditions. Be grateful they don't call Mythal Mythanol or Fen'Harel Fox'Harel. Because in RL this happens all the time
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#17
Posté 24 décembre 2014 - 06:56
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In your hateful imagination, maybe?
Really. Such an approach is insulting to anyone who actually tries to study history, do archeological research or is simply a member of culture which didn't preserve much of its history.
People get history wrong and right all the time
The dalish also specialize mostly in oral traditions. Be grateful they don't call Mythal Mythanol or Fen'Harel Fox'Harel. Because in RL this happens all the time
They got the most basic thing wrong, the destruction of Arlthan. Blaming people who never did it. Then we have Red Crossing where it had been proven both sides started it and were just as bad as eachother. That's not even getting into the gods or their tats. This is stuff they basically blame humans for that turned out to be 100% wrong.
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#18
Posté 24 décembre 2014 - 07:06
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I loved the Red Crossing reveal because it more or less matched my impression of the clash of civilizations between Humans & Elves in Thedas. I think it's kind of like the Spanish Conquistadors and the Aztecs. There aren't any good guys.
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#19
Posté 24 décembre 2014 - 07:11
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They got the most basic thing wrong, the destruction of Arlthan. Blaming people who never did it. Then we have Red Crossing where it had been proven both sides started it and were just as bad as eachother. That's not even getting into the gods or their tats. This is stuff they basically blame humans for that turned out to be 100% wrong.
If they got the most basic things wrong there wouldn't be Arlathan, there wouldn't be a pantheon, there wouldn't be Fen'Harel, there wouldn't be Uthenara etc. They got some details wrong - and that is just inevitable. They got it right that the elven kingdom fell - they just got wrong how it fell. Which is understandable and not a sin - it's been thousands of years
They got their full elven pantheon right in terms of a short summary - and it's an achivement even by RL standards. Our slav' pantheon? We remember only parts of it and we weren't invaded and stopped worshiping the old gods about 1000 years ago. The elves were ruined, enslaved, beaten into even more submission, their culture got evaporised by invaders (and don't tell me that people themselves destroyed it, it's not how such things work) and then they had to become nomadic to keep at least something. They got their names right, they got some of their basic functions right and they did get it right that vallaslins were used to show respect for specific gods... but as slave marks. And that is not even unrealistic if you know how many RL religions work/ed. Details, again
Plus while it was an elven rebellion which made the country crumble it were humans who came and enslaved the weakened and chaotic rest. Saying that it was elven's fault and their fault only like saying that the roman empire destroyed itself rather than the german tribes. Or rus' folk ruined themselves and the mongolians didn't invade them. It was but one of the reasons of a fall. And when a country, region, community become weak there will always be other sides who'd like to use that to their advantage. Politics and stuff
So. no. The dalish did fine considering the hostile enviroment and all the difficulties
As for the Red Crossing? D'uh. Did anyone really expect a different truth? Just look at RL crusades and wars between countries
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#21
Posté 24 décembre 2014 - 07:20
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One thing I really like about dragon age is that everyone is right and everyone is wrong. All sides can argue valid points. All are made up of heroes and villains. It's a murky world out there.They got the most basic thing wrong, the destruction of Arlthan. Blaming people who never did it. Then we have Red Crossing where it had been proven both sides started it and were just as bad as eachother. That's not even getting into the gods or their tats. This is stuff they basically blame humans for that turned out to be 100% wrong.
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#22
Posté 24 décembre 2014 - 07:23
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Which is comparable to, say, Fereldans thinking Calenhad was just that awesome rather than deriving his power from reaver abilities.They got the most basic thing wrong, the destruction of Arlthan. Blaming people who never did it. Then we have Red Crossing where it had been proven both sides started it and were just as bad as eachother. That's not even getting into the gods or their tats. This is stuff they basically blame humans for that turned out to be 100% wrong.
Only Dalish are allowed to muck up history, apparently?
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#23
Posté 24 décembre 2014 - 07:23
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Blaming humans for something they never did is a pretty big goddam detail.
Considering that the first actually recorded state of elven culture being is them being enslaved by humans I say it's just a logical conclusion
When you have a culture x being completelly enslaved by culture y thinking that it was conquered by culture x is only logical. Unless you say that they volunteered to become slaves (might be the case in some situations actually). And again, while it wasn't the Tevinter who ruined the elven empire it still was them who enslaved the weakened population and took the cultural heritage
That's how it often works. A culture x is too weak due to some reason. A culture y arrives and uses it to its advantage: to destroy, rob, conquer etc. Maybe the humans didn't crumble the Empire but it was them who conquered the powerless leftovers
I understand elves' anger, they have a right to be angry for being treated like animals but I also realize that it's just how it is. A cruel yet natural way of life. Blaming elves for feeling hurt is cruel. When a thief stoles a wallet from a drunk and beaten up man it's the thief's crime even if the man got beaten up due to his own mistakes
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#24
Posté 24 décembre 2014 - 07:25
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Which is comparable to, say, Fereldans thinking Calenhad was just that awesome rather than deriving his power from reaver abilities.
Only Dalish are allowed to muck up history, apparently?
Because one is not damming a whole race for a crime they never did.
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#25
Posté 24 décembre 2014 - 07:26
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Ah, well exaggerating the faults of your ages-long enemies is also only something elves would do. Humans would never dream of it.Because one is not damming a whole race for a crime they never did.
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