1503 réponses à ce sujet

[Nightdragon8]

You could simply try reading my posts before responding to things I've never said; it would make our conversations much more productive. When I say both sides were responsible, and you act like I claimed only one side was responsible, it's clear that you didn't read the multiple posts that I wrote where I said elves and humans were to blame for the inception of the war.

 

 

I said the Emerald Knight thought the human was armed... because that's what happened. I also said both sides were to blame, and I didn't think this misunderstanding excused their culpability in the tragedy.

I'm just not relpying to you, ok? I'm also replying to everyone else, and I don't want to make a huge text wall putting everyone in a post. This isn't a formal place for use of lawyer levels of anal. Ok? Not talking just to you, please understand that. If I was just wanting to talk to you, I would use PMs, So that not everyone would see. You are on a forum, it isn't just about you. Ok Lobse?

[Lulupab]

Which in this instance they didn't.

 

Your Petrice side is showing. Because the chantry tried to justify what happened to elves, not just red crossing.

[EmissaryofLies]

Which in this instance they didn't.

 

From your perspective, perhaps. As I'm sure others share similar sentiments, there are others who would disagree.

[Nightdragon8]

And there we have it! The Bioware Social Network to a T.

No thats more like internet culture in general, they all have there extreme views and they are all in there small cornors and unwilling to move.

[EmissaryofLies]

No thats more like internet culture in general, they all have there extreme views and they are all in there small cornors and unwilling to move.

 

True and it's exemplified on the BSN in all its passive aggressive splendor.

[Nightdragon8]

Your Petrice side is showing. Because the chantry tried to justify what happened to elves, not just red crossing.

Not like the elves where any better and there "Shem" crap, please stop trying to say the elves are some prefect society, they aren't. Just admit that Evles are as imperfect as humans are and be done with it, both sides can walk away happy.

[Colonelkillabee]

Your Petrice side is showing. Because the chantry tried to justify what happened to elves, not just red crossing.

Justify doesn't always mean what one thinks. Saying they had cause is true and isn't the same as saying they were morally right.

 

POWs and people left over after wars in conquered places or otherwise get mistreated due to fear, distrust, or what have you. It's common. It's rather hard to justify anything that happens in war. All you can say is if they had cause. The way they were treated right after the war is to be expected really. Presently however is a different story.

[Master Warder Z_]

Your Petrice side is showing. Because the chantry tried to justify what happened to elves, not just red crossing.

Being shown God, having homes, jobs and salvation handed to them is what happened.

Also the Chantry doesn't need to justify ****

The elves caused it.

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

I still don't get why people bother to argue with the pro-Dalish fans, will always say the elves were blameless for everything, going as far as to say the elven soldiers were the victims of persecution by the peasants of Red Crossing & that Orlais were the evil aggressors for being angry over foreign forces murdering their civilians

[LobselVith8]

I'm just not relpying to you, ok? I'm also replying to everyone else, and I don't want to make a huge text wall putting everyone in a post. This isn't a formal place for use of lawyer levels of anal. Ok? Not talking just to you, please understand that. If I was just wanting to talk to you, I would use PMs, So that not everyone would see. You are on a forum, it isn't just about you. Ok Lobse?

 

I'd suggest not replying to one of my posts if you were trying to address everyone in general, although since I haven't read anyone claiming that the elves aren't responsible, I'm not certain why you were under the impression that anyone had suggested as much. Plenty of people in this thread have addressed same thing that Hawen's clan does - which is that, after reading the scroll, humans and elves are both responsible for the inception of the war.

[Lulupab]

Justify doesn't always mean what one thinks. Saying they had cause is true and isn't the same as saying they were morally right.

 

POWs and people left over after wars in conquered places or otherwise get mistreated due to fear, distrust, or what have you. It's common. It's rather hard to justify anything that happens in war. All you can say is if they had cause. The way they were treated right after the war is to be expected really. Presently however is a different story.

 

Orlais counts itself "civilized". The utter destruction of Halamshiral was unnecessary to say the least. Most conquered nations became Satrapies, Vassals, client states etc... And even in most horrid situation the population was absorbed. Of course elves being another race doesn't help, but still it was way too excessive.

[AresKeith]

Don't worry about the Dalish, they're fine

[LobselVith8]

I still don't get why people bother to argue with the pro-Dalish fans, will always say the elves were blameless for everything, going as far as to say the elven soldiers were the victims of persecution by the peasants of Red Crossing & that Orlais were the evil aggressors for being angry over foreign forces murdering their civilians

 

No one claimed the elves weren't responsible; people addressed that elves and humans were responsible for what happened in Red Crossing, which is the same reason why the Dalish admit they were wrong to think only humans were responsible.

[Lulupab]

Not like the elves where any better and there "Shem" crap, please stop trying to say the elves are some prefect society, they aren't. Just admit that Evles are as imperfect as humans are and be done with it, both sides can walk away happy.

 

You should really stop with your nonsense. No one said that. We said both sides are to blame. When did I say elves are perfect? This is the 2nd time your accusing someone meaninglessly. Its annoying

[Master Warder Z_]

Orlais counts itself "civilized". The utter destruction of Halamshiral was unnecessary to say the least.

Not according to history.

In how many wars was the main objective the destruction of a enemy state?

[Lulupab]

Being shown God, having homes, jobs and salvation handed to them is what happened.

Also the Chantry doesn't need to justify ****

The elves caused it.

 

And Chantry and Orlais committed something more Horrid than ancient Tevinter. They are still doing it.

 

Disease ridden alienages, only the able can become servants, the vast majority are jobless. the god is forced upon them. They are target dummy for chevaliers, completely confirmed, I can go on. The chantry CANNOT justify anything.

[EmissaryofLies]

Being shown God, having homes, jobs and salvation handed to them is what happened.
 

 

A ghetto where they are purged like a disease? Having some of the worst jobs while having to worry about over zealous bigots raping them? A God that turned his back on his own people twice?

 

Perspective really is a b*tch.

 

Edit: Good form, Lulu, good form.

[Master Warder Z_]

No one claimed the elves weren't responsible; people addressed that elves and humans were responsible for what happened in Red Crossing, which is the same reason why the Dalish admit they were wrong to think only humans were responsible.

Right.

Curse the priest for being a sexy human.

Honestly the "both sides caused it" argument is pretty weak.

[Master Warder Z_]

The chantry CANNOT justify anything.

I'll repeat.

It doesn't need to.

[raging_monkey]

Now its getting interesting

[Colonelkillabee]

Orlais counts itself "civilized". The utter destruction of Halamshiral was unnecessary to say the least. Most conquered nations became Satrapies, Vassals, client states etc... And even in most horrid situation the population was absorbed. Of course elves being another race doesn't help, but still it was way too excessive.

Of course, and I agree. Like I said before, the humans overreacted. And there are many times when this isn't the case and people are wiped out entirely. Julius Caesar being one, the dickhead, lol.

 

I'm not going to argue any of this was justified after the humans won, but again, there's cause. Just as the elves had cause for red crossing even though I say they were wrong for it. This is war, and really, people shouldn't be so shocked or suprised that after nearly having their capital taken, that they reacted the way they did (even if it was an overreaction).

[errantknight]

Hmm, I could have  sworn that 'both sides caused it' was exactly what the codex note said...

 

Personally, I think you're all (and I use that in a general way having not read the entire thread, but seeing a thread repeat of red crossing) entrenched in indefensible positions and a littlle cray-cray, lol.

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

Orlais counts itself "civilized". The utter destruction of Halamshiral was unnecessary to say the least. Most conquered nations became Satrapies, Vassals, client states etc... And even in most horrid situation the population was absorbed. Of course elves being another race doesn't help, but still it was way too excessive.

Id say it was understandable that they utterly crushed their enemy, Orlais didn't want another attempted take-over in future after the destruction of the 10 year war

[Master Warder Z_]

Hmm, I could have sworn that 'both sides caused it' was exactly what the codex note said...

Who murdered that town again?

[Lulupab]

Not according to history.

In how many wars was the main objective the destruction of a enemy state?

 

And in how many it happened, only a few. Barbarian nations were soothed to become client states of Rome. The number of surviving civilizations far outnumbers those have have been lost. Not a single nation was dissolved in recent centuries. After the conquest, the invader took control of the government and took control of resources and other advantages.

 

After the enemy rule and government is gone there is no point in targeting or slaughtering civilians, women and children. But Orlais did it nonetheless with chantry's consent.