1503 réponses à ce sujet

[Colonelkillabee]

Well, the elves brought it on themselves in the end.

They started a war and lost.

 

And why are some surprised the elves are treated the way they are. They're the ones hating on humans for their misery, since the fall of Arlathan. First thing they do after being helped escape slavery was isolate themselves because shemlen. Then they sat around watching humans getting butchered by darkspawn. And then took advantage of a weakened country and started invading because shemlen.

 

This inborn hate of theirs is what always gets them into trouble.

Few things.

 

1. The ancient elves did bring it upon themselves agreed.

 

2. It's not surprising, but the Humans and Dalish are both dicks to eachother currently, so there's enough blame to go around there. Though I tend to be biased towards the Humans. Hard to avoid tensions when your isolationist group is also roaming around as nomads.

 

3. The ancient elves choosing to be isolated is their choice and not at all an issue. If they wanted to be left alone, then that's their choice.

 

4. Why would isolationists who have tensions with humans risk their lives for them? I mean, that would have been the smart thing to do because of what the darkspawn are, but realistically, no two groups like the ancient elves and Orlesians would jump to each other's rescue until they absolutely had to. Let me be clear, the thinking is faulty, but as you say for human treatment towards elves... not at all surprising.

 

5. Regardless of the facts of what happened in the past, none of it makes the modern elves deserving of their situation. Do the Dalish help in the way that they go about currently? No, but it's certainly not all on them that they act this way. Especially with Orlesians. Lets be real.

[LOLandStuff]

It's a Blight and it doesn't discriminate. Helping the humans fight it would've been better than to stand on your own, while the darkspawn bolster their numbers with ghouls, broodmothers and whatever. But I wouldn't be surprised if the humans lost and elves blamed them for not fighting hard enough.

 

I don't think they elves deserve the treatment they got, but I;m not surprised either. Still I doubt the humans started hating on elves just because. Some resentment started when they isolated themselves, and it got worse after the Blight, and then escalated with Orlais.

 

And I do wonder if something happened between the ancient elves and humans. You can't just hate for the sake of hating.

[In Exile]

It's not an excuse, it's just a fact. War was inevitable. "Elves could have been more diplomatic"- if Andrastians didn't have an ideology that required them to convert the world and subdue all mages. Such ifs are useless because as things stood, there was no way that the Dales was going to be let alone, not when Orlais wanted that land (which is also a codex entry, since people take the Red Crossing as gospel) and the elves had an aggressive xenophobia.

I don't know how you assert this so confidently after we found out that the Dalish are the ones who were marked as slaves. What if it's the other way around?

We know the Dalish were the nobles. The codex confirmed it. A great deal of Dalish prejudice towards the city elves related to their natural subservience given their role in the Dales.

[Colonelkillabee]

It's a Blight and it doesn't discriminate. Helping the humans fight it would've been better than to stand on your own, while the darkspawn bolster their numbers with ghouls, broodmothers and whatever. But I wouldn't be surprised if the humans lost and elves blamed them for not fighting hard enough.

 

I don't think they elves deserve the treatment they got, but I;m not surprised either. Still I doubt the humans started hating on elves just because. Some resentment started when they isolated themselves, and it got worse after the Blight, and then escalated with Orlais.

 

And I do wonder if something happened between the ancient elves and humans. You can't just hate for the sake of hating.

Between elven resentment for slavery and wanting to be isolated, and the human chantry zealots and andrastian cultists that feared any and all magic, I'm sure the resentment for one another was more or less there from the beginning.

 

As for darkspawn, like I said, helping them would have been smart, would have been the right thing to do, but people are people. It's really not at all surprising that they didn't help. Hell, I probably wouldn't either. I'd probably laugh and get the popcorn while I'm at it. Is it stupid? Yes. But it's also ironically human and to be expected.

[Master Warder Z_]

If the elves were in the process of sacking val royeaux, realistically it would have been too late for the chantry To change the course of the war.

Except that by then the armies of Orlais had gathered.

You just notice how it was a steady advance until that point? Militarily that makes little sense unless if they weren't being engaged with any measure of strength.

Because the next thing you know the elves are scrambling over the corpses of their comrades to escape Orlais.

So I think the first portion of the Orlesian threater of the war was merely getting it's armies ready for it.

This was after a blight after all.

[MoonDrummer]

They've got big cohones, I'll give them that, for believing they could stand against the Blight on their own.
But they lost a war in 10 years from a country that recovered from a Blight. I'd have given them a year or so against a darkspawn invasion. And this is me being generous.

Who said they were going to defeat the blight on their own? A siege can last for years (although th darskspawn breached the gates Of denerim in like 3 seconds), each day the darkspawn spent knocking at the gates of Montsimmard(I think it was Montsimmard) was a day that the darkspawn did not invade the dales.

The elves could have simply been waiting for the grey wardens to work their magic. The primary goal of the dalish army is to protect the dales not the humans, and they went about it.

In saying that I have no idea how big this army was, could have been 100 men could have been 100,000 men.

[Lulupab]

Except that by then the armies of Orlais had gathered.

You just notice how it was a steady advance until that point? Militarily that makes little sense unless if they weren't being engaged with any measure of strength.

Because the next thing you know the elves are scrambling over the corpses of their comrades to escape Orlais.

So I think the first portion of the Orlesian threater of the war was merely getting it's armies ready for it.

This was after a blight after all.

Its unrealistic for Orlais to take 9 years to get ready for war. Orlais was losing without exalted march.

[Colonelkillabee]

Its unrealistic for Orlais to take 9 years to get ready for war. Orlais was losing without exalted march.

And if it did take that long then they suck ass.

[LOLandStuff]

Orlais was also recovering from a Blight.

[Lulupab]

Orlais was also recovering from a Blight.

No one denied this. But Orlais was not getting ready for war for almost a decade, they were losing. Also Orlais have attacked two nations as soon as blight eneded so lets not put Orlais in any good because the word good and Orlais don't make sense. It was merely a taste of their own medicine.

[MoonDrummer]

Orlais was also recovering from a Blight.

Doesn't change the fact that in order for the dalish to reach Val Royeaux they had to go through most of the other major cities in Orlais. Which begs the question of where did the reinforcements that routed the elves come from.

[Master Warder Z_]

And if it did take that long then they suck ass.

You obvious have little grasp of what it takes to actually use an army.

o.o either that or this was a joke.

It isn't as simple as conscription of a few thousand people and pointing them in a direction to march.

You need infrastructure to support it, officers to lead it, farms, smithes, mines, roads and garrisons to support it.

All of that takes, time, effort and money.

Also I never said it took nine years, lulu did.

I simply said it made no sense militarily for the elves to march unmolested on the capital unless if their were things preventing it.

[Colonelkillabee]

You obvious have little grasp of what it takes to actually use an army.

o.o either that or this was a joke.
 

If you're going to tell me that it would take them 9 years to get their **** together and take back their city, then I think this applies to you more than it does me.

 

Why is this point even being argued, the elves are already at fault without trying to go for that extra three points and making the Orlesians sound like bigger bitches than what they already are in the process...

[MoonDrummer]

Orlaisian knights would have supplied themselves, the main bulk of the army would hve just been peasents with leathers and pikes thrown at them. Medieval armies would lived off the land.

All in all if should not have taken 9 years for Orlais to mobilise.

[Colonelkillabee]

Orlaisian knights would have supplied themselves, the main bulk of the army would hve just been peasents with leathers and pikes thrown at them. Medieval armies would lived off the land.

All in all if should not have taken 9 years for Orlais to mobilise.

People really do over exaggerate the costs and time it takes to mobilize. Grossly.

[Master Warder Z_]

If you're going to tell me that it would take them 9 years to get their **** together and take back their city

Inversely would this not also imply it the elves nine years to march there?

Again though, I never said it took nine years.

I'd suspect eight to fifteen months if you want my estimate.

[MoonDrummer]

Inversely would this not also imply it the elves nine years to march there?

Again though, I never said it took nine years.

I'd suspect eight to fifteen months if you want my estimate.

They didn't spend 9 years marching they spent 9 years occupying the heartlands, and presumably fighting the Orlaisian forces.

[Colonelkillabee]

Inversely would this not also imply it the elves nine years to march there?

Again though, I never said it took nine years.

I'd suspect eight to fifteen months if you want my estimate.

All the more reason why I don't think it's likely.

 

But whatever the estimate, we don't have an actual game source claiming this happened so as far as I'm concerned, there's no reason to argue the point.

 

But I'm certainly not your father or the representative for the human side, so feel free to argue whatever points you wish.

[Lulupab]

And from what I got from the game, Emerald Knights had a much harder training and had enchanted equipment. So Orlesian Chevaliers were not an advantage like in Orlais' other wars.

[MoonDrummer]

They also had wolves.

[Master Warder Z_]

They didn't spend 9 years marching

You never know their halla could have just been very slow.

[MoonDrummer]

You never know their halla could have just been very slow.

Something in common with you then. -.-

Banter

[Master Warder Z_]

They also had wolves.

Woopty ****ing doo

How did that help their order again?

Those pesky wolves completely changed the course of the war! It's because of them the Dales still stand!

Oh wait no.

Their just dogs.

Not an actual advantage.

[Master Warder Z_]

Something in common with you then. -.-

Banter

At least I'm not proporting the insanity that the elves actually faced the lion at it's full power for a decade.

So who's slow?

[MoonDrummer]

Woopty ****ing doo

How did that help their order again?

Those pesky wolves completely changed the course of the war! It's because of them the Dales still stand!

Oh wait no.

Their just dogs.

Not an actual advantage.

I'm not sure how having a pet wolf isn't an advantage.
You could alway light them on fire and catapult them into enemy lines.