1503 réponses à ce sujet

[Colonelkillabee]

Recap of the recent discussion:

 

[Addai]

o.o they also face undead, demons and learn templar technique for combating mages.

They are the greatest fighting force in the world for a reason.

So great that they got their asses handed to them by a bunch of Fereldan yokels.

 

No that isn't the purpose.

Michel shed insight into the actual point of the exercise.

It's to show you can follow orders, any order, at any time, regardless of situation or personal feeling.

So yeah, kill the peasants breaking curfew.

It doesn't matter what you think only that you obey.

So no it isn't akin to GSG9s chicken ritual.

If that were the purpose, they'd have them clear-headed and killing someone they actually might mind killing. The fact that their training is already complete and they get drunk means- this is more of a reward, a revel, than a training exercise.

 

I do agree that it serves a training purpose, however it's more subtle than you're depicting. The chevaliers are the military arm of the nobility and their initiation serves to reinforce their role, and the fact that their code only applies to other nobility. Killing unarmed civilian peasants reinforces the social relationships in Orlesian society, signaling both the chevaliers and the rest of the populace that it is the chevaliers' right and reward to do whatever they please to those beneath them on the social scale.

 

As for Michel's badassery in the Dalish camp- it was accomplished while Felassan was raining lightning and fire down on the camp. So, yeah.

[Colonelkillabee]

So great that they got their asses handed to them by a bunch of Fereldan yokels.

With their bare hands apparently, TROLOLOL

 

"Hate doesn't describe it. I've seen painted, masked lords beat an old farmer to death with riding crops. To this day, I don't know why. Is that hate? I saw good, sensible men fighting armored chevaliers with nothing—no weapons, no armies, not even hope of success—to see the occupation end. Is that hate?"

[Rayban87]

I'm not surprised that in DA:I the Dalish have so much of their history incorrect and inaccurate.

Since most of their history was lost to them, it was like passing down their knowledge through Chinese Whispers.

Of course by the time it hits the next couple of generations, much of the stories have been altered and that's mostly due to personal interpretation (naturally speaking).

I enjoyed learning the real Dalish history in DA:I.

So glad I got Merrill to finish and keep the Eluvian in DA:2.

[Colonelkillabee]

Being serious for a moment, lol it's been a while.

 

Ser Michel... what a sad story. As someone who is biracial, the idea of him denying a part of who he was to gain acceptance and prestige, even killing his mother's people for it to me was just sad as all hell. And utterly pathetic. I get why he did it, and that his life was barely worth living before then, but I'm sorry, your "honor" like most of the Chevs is worth ****** and **** after that, especially in his case.

 

I can never respect someone like that. At most, I can say he at least tries to make up for Imshael. But still.

 

 

edit: Fixed. Imshael.

[MisterJB]

As for Michel's badassery in the Dalish camp- it was accomplished while Felassan was raining lightning and fire down on the camp. So, yeah.

It was raining but the lightning was not said to have hit a single elf and adverse climacteric conditions would have also affected Michel.

[Lulupab]

It was raining but the lightning was not said to have hit a single elf and adverse climacteric conditions would have also affected Michel.

 

And? You are still comparing best and brightest to scrubs and normal people. I already told you that Ariane has killed many Templars who tried something against her clan. I don't see the point you are trying to make here. I could have made other examples but I deliberately chose Ariane because she is a warrior.

[Addai]

It was raining but the lightning was not said to have hit a single elf and adverse climacteric conditions would have also affected Michel.

It was a surprise attack that Michel was prepared for, and none of that magery was directed at him. Felassan was doing just what he ended up accomplishing- distracting and terrorizing so that they could break out. Michel's a good warrior, I'll give him that, but he didn't escape on pure badassery alone, at least not his own.

[EmissaryofLies]

Recap of the recent discussion:

 

 

Good taste. Appropriate too. But Pinky Record Shop Scene is my favorite.

 

As if the dick swinging going on in this thread weren't worrisome enough, they're not even their own dicks!

[MisterJB]

It was a surprise attack that Michel was prepared for, and none of that magery was directed at him. Felassan was doing just what he ended up accomplishing- distracting and terrorizing so that they could break out. Michel's a good warrior, I'll give him that, but he didn't escape on pure badassery alone, at least not his own.

How can rain that affects your side as much as the opponent's be considered an attack?

Also, Michel has no idea what Fellassan planned to do.

 

The storm served to distract the guards, yes. But Michel did not use stealth afterwards.
 

[MisterJB]

And? You are still comparing best and brightest to scrubs and normal people. I already told you that Ariane has killed many Templars who tried something against her clan. I don't see the point you are trying to make here. I could have made other examples but I deliberately chose Ariane because she is a warrior.

 

And Michel only killed warriors, including that clan's warleader, as well as defeated the First.

[Colonelkillabee]

And Michel only killed warriors, including that clan's warleader, as well as defeated the First.

Yea, like those badasses in the alienage.

[MoonDrummer]

What was the name of the city elf that murdered chevaliers over the graduation tradition? I liked that story.

[TK514]

The important thing is coming back from being broken, everything breaks, even diamonds. She had no army but she turned whole remaining forces of Lordaeron ranging from humans, brigands and bandits and bloody trolls and murlocs against the scourge and kicked them out. There is nothing like it in whole wow lore, before or after getting butchered
 
Not to mention Sylvanas almost killed Arthas if it wasn't for Kel'thuzad. Ner'zhull champion was first babysat by Uther, then Kel'thuzad then Anub'arak. Sylvanas was alone and the Vengeance of dark lady washed Lordaeron from scourge. Arthas was the last alive scourge who left Lordaeron.

She's well and truly broken to the point of insanity, now. She used to be about vengeance for herself and the other Forsaken for the state the Lich King plagued them with. She cared about her people. Then Arthas was defeated, and she got a good look at what was waiting for her on the other side, thanks to her actions. Now she just sees her people as meat shields between her and the Final Oblivion that will be her fate.

Combine that with her sister's "betrayal" in the last novel, and whatever remained of her former, sane, self is gone, baby, gone.

[Master Warder Z_]

And Michel only killed warriors, including that clan's warleader, as well as defeated the First.

I thought it was amusing he lectured the war leader on the same flaw earlier he ended up using to kill him.

[Lulupab]

And Michel only killed warriors, including that clan's warleader, as well as defeated the First.

 

Aka not so bright. Chevaliers have been owned quite a lot as well. You cannot bring a group down because of what an individual did to them. The Dalish are pretty much the best archers in Thedas.

[LOLandStuff]

Archery is for *******. 

I should know. My Hawke romanced Sebastian, so no hanky pankie because he's a big *****.

[Lulupab]

She's well and truly broken to the point of insanity, now. She used to be about vengeance for herself and the other Forsaken for the state the Lich King plagued them with. She cared about her people. Then Arthas was defeated, and she got a good look at what was waiting for her on the other side, thanks to her actions. Now she just sees her people as meat shields between her and the Final Oblivion that will be her fate.

Combine that with her sister's "betrayal" in the last novel, and whatever remained of her former, sane, self is gone, baby, gone.

 

Everyone will leave someday, she cannot die by aging so her end doesn't necessarily mean death. Although you are assuming too much, she has found a way for forsaken to reproduce and she has dedicated herself for her people. She is the only person that broke undead compulsion and taught others to do it, she manipulated a whole region to drive the scourge back then took power from them like it was taking candy from a baby. Alleria is still missing as well, her return might change things later. 

 

Also you are forgetting the fact that Sylvanas cares a great deal for blood elves, she doesn't show it though, like all her emotions.

[EmissaryofLies]

And now WoW? Any other nerdcore games we missing?

[dragonflight288]

Hawke knows none of those things. I am not saying that the mirror is dangerous. I - the real person behind the screen - agree with Merrill. Even if I didn't, I am of the view that people are responsible for their own actions and, in the end, would have helped Merrill solely because she was my (qua Hawke) friend. 

 

Here is what Hawke knows about the mirror. He knows that it had the taint - Merrill admits that it infected someone. She says - without explaining - that she had a method for removing the taint. She says that the mirror didn't work. 

 

It's not about possession. It's about a magical artefact from (again, Hawke's POV), unknown but possibly elven origin, that has been confirmed to infect another with the blight. 

 

It doesn't matter that Marethari is comically ignorant about the mirror. Again, from Hawke's POV, she's as reliable an authority as one can find on elven artifacts. 

 

Regarding Merrill's blame, note, I'm not saying Merrill is somehow more (or even as) responsible. What I am saying, however, is that she is responsible, in the sense that she bears some of the responsibility for the situation. I think people confuse how Marethari was wrong about the situation (that is, that she somehow had to get possessed (????) to save Merrill) with Merrill's actual involvement in the dupe (i.e., she was just an instrument for Audacity to emotionally exploit Marethari).  

 

Got it. 

[Colonelkillabee]

Archery is for *******. 
I should know. My Hawke romanced Sebastian, so no hanky pankie because he's a big *****.

Pusses can still kill. Chevaliers show that clear as crystal. An arrow will put your ass down in a second, and then you'll be shitting your britches, wondering which ***** sent you to your dirt nap.

[The Baconer]

I can't seem many in Thedas going up against an Orlesian Chevalier tbh, they're the best trained warriors in Thedas.

 

Mages >_>. Even PC-made-manifest Michel spent most of his time on his knees when assaulted by spells, in spite of his adapted "Templar techniques". Alternatively, Fereldan farmers. 

 

 

 

 

I'm beginning to think these 9000+ secret Chevalier techniques were just made up by some ponce because they sounded cool.

[thesuperdarkone2]

So great that they got their asses handed to them by a bunch of Fereldan yokels.

 

If that were the purpose, they'd have them clear-headed and killing someone they actually might mind killing. The fact that their training is already complete and they get drunk means- this is more of a reward, a revel, than a training exercise.

 

I do agree that it serves a training purpose, however it's more subtle than you're depicting. The chevaliers are the military arm of the nobility and their initiation serves to reinforce their role, and the fact that their code only applies to other nobility. Killing unarmed civilian peasants reinforces the social relationships in Orlesian society, signaling both the chevaliers and the rest of the populace that it is the chevaliers' right and reward to do whatever they please to those beneath them on the social scale.

 

As for Michel's badassery in the Dalish camp- it was accomplished while Felassan was raining lightning and fire down on the camp. So, yeah.

If they really were killing criminals, why don't we ever hear of any humans getting killed? If humans were also killed, then there might be some truth to this. However, the fact that elves are targetted exclusively kind of confirms that its more racism than any sense of justice.

[Colonelkillabee]

I'm beginning to think these 9000+ secret Chevalier techniques were just made up by some ponce because they sounded cool.

Like that code of honor they love roleplaying so much.

[Lulupab]

Those stinking poncy cheesemongers!