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[d4eaming]

Many people reclaim words, ideas, and images. The Dalish are no different. They took something that was inherent in their culture and turned it into a point of pride. It's original meaning does not change what it means for them right now, that has been integrated into their culture for generations. Oppressed minorities will retake slurs that have been used against them and turn them into a point of pride (the LGBT community with the words gay and queer, for example). It doesn't matter now what it originally meant to those people, what matters is that they took something and made it their own.

 

So, it originally denoted slavery? Okay, that sucks. But now it is a rite of passage into adulthood and veneration of their (fallible) gods.

 

It is honestly not shocking to me whatsoever that what they thought they knew about it was wrong in some way. That happens in cultures all the time. And religions that "borrow" from others but pretend it was all theirs to begin with.

 

My Dalish will always wear their tattoos. It means something to them right now, built upon their current culture. Its origin is unfortunate, but so are an awful lot of practices here in the real world.

 

I never got that they thought there were perfect and had everything of their past right. I heard a whole lot of "this is what we think" and "we lost so much, but this is what we've tried to preserve." Maybe some of them think that everything they've been taught is utter truth and they can do no wrong and blahblahblah. There's people like that everywhere.

 

I like that they are flawed and not perfect. That's what makes them both endearing and fascinating to me.

 

/unabashed Dalish supporter all the way

[Aren]

Oh yeah, only the Dalish romanticize and idealize their past. No other race or nationality in Thedas does it too. They are all perfectly objective and upfront about everything regarding their past and people except the Dalish. Everyone fully admits to and frequently talks about everything shameful, embarrassing, and amoral about their own cultures except the Dalish. They are the one exception.

 

I mean, it's not like the Chantry idealizes Andraste as this beautiful, peaceful, all-loving maternal healer despite how she was a ruthless warleader in her life. It's not like the Chantry slashed Shartan from the Canticles of Light after relations between humans and elves plummeted, and continue to censure positive mentions of elves in human history. (Like Garahel being all but forgotten as an elf who stopped the 4th Blight.) It's not like Cassandra admits that mages helped her save the Divine's life, but while she got promoted to being the Right Hand of the Divine, they got conveniently phased out of the story; and the conversation makes it clear that this is typical for the Chantry.

 

It's not like the dwarves of Orzammar like to pretend they are still this proud, prosperous, glorious empire filled with honor and reason, despite how they are a slowly decaying ruin in a hole underground filled with corruption, hypocrisy, lying, cheating, backstabbing, and power-grabbing. It's not like they are a culture that feels the appearance of honor is more important than actual honorable behavior. 

 

It's not like Tevinter downplays their involvement in the creation of the darkspawn. It's not like they created their own Chantry with their own Divine, their own Templars, and their own Circle system that happens to support their own ideals and lifestyle, instead of keeping with the one that gets in the way of their power-grabbing magocrasy. It's not like Dorian goes into great detail about how Tevinter would rather pretend they never did anything wrong - pretend they have a perfectly moral reason for everything they do (from enslaving to torturing to murdering to demon-summoning to using blood magic on unwilling recipients), pretend they're still in their glory days and are superior to everyone else - even when the reality doesn't match the ideal.

 

Noooo! It's just the Dalish.

 

They alone cling to past glory after losing everything, and they alone prefer to talk up the positive bits of their people and history but downplay the shameful and embarrassing bits.

 

Clearly, they are the only flawed culture in Thedas, and they alone deserve to be wiped out for it; metaphorically at best, literally at worst. 

It's not just the dalish but unlike them shamlen are not the same, many of them care nothing about the chantry or Andraste, some of them are barbarians, some of them are citizen of the imperium, some of them belive in nothing.

And the others who still belive in the chantry saw the chantry as a powerful organization not as a shadow to worship.

Dalish however rappresent the supposed heirs of the ancient elves of arlathan.

[herkles]

It's not just the dalish but unlike them shamlen are not the same, many of them care nothing about the chantry or Andraste, some of them are barbarians, some of them are citizen of the imperium, some of them belive in nothing.

And the others who still belive in the chantry saw the chantry as a powerful organization not as a shadow to worship.

Dalish however rappresent the supposed heirs of the ancient elves of arlathan.

ah I forgot that the dalish were all a hive mind and everyone thought the same thought, and had the same idea and opinion. Clearly a culture with different clans is going to be 100% monolithic and the same. I forgot about that part of the lore.

[Ahalvern]

Many people reclaim words, ideas, and images. The Dalish are no different. They took something that was inherent in their culture and turned it into a point of pride. It's original meaning does not change what it means for them right now, that has been integrated into their culture for generations. Oppressed minorities will retake slurs that have been used against them and turn them into a point of pride (the LGBT community with the words gay and queer, for example). It doesn't matter now what it originally meant to those people, what matters is that they took something and made it their own.

 

*snip*

 

I like that they are flawed and not perfect. That's what makes them both endearing and fascinating to me.

 

/unabashed Dalish supporter all the way

 

I love this post so much I want to give it a thousand likes. Thank you.

 

I also like that it's at the top of the page.

[d4eaming]

ah I forgot that the dalish were all a hive mind and everyone thought the same thought, and had the same idea and opinion. Clearly a culture with different clans is going to be 100% monolithic and the same. I forgot about that part of the lore.

 

Lol. just look at the differences between Lavellan and Sabrae. One progressive, the other more "conservative" or whatever you'd call it. But clearly, they are exactly the same. Even though one cared about human affairs enough to go to the conclave, per Solas' observation, and the other was hiding in the woods and likely killing any humans that got too close to them.

 

But nope. Exactly the same. They're clones.

[raging_monkey]

Lol. just look at the differences between Lavellan and Sabrae. One progressive, the other more "conservative" or whatever you'd call it. But clearly, they are exactly the same. Even though one cared about human affairs enough to go to the conclave, per Solas' observation, and the other was hiding in the woods and likely killing any humans that got too close to them.
 
But nope. Exactly the same. They're clones.

the clone wars have begun

[dragonflight288]

the clone wars have begun

 

Indeed. And the Lavellan clan risking themselves to save the city elves of wymott (probably spelled that wrong) and stood there ground despite a force of Free Marcher armies marching on their position to help City Elves is the exact same of Fellasen and his clan letting the elves of Halamshiral die. 

 

Clone Wars! Initiate Order 66!

[raging_monkey]

Indeed. And the Lavellan clan risking themselves to save the city elves of wymott (probably spelled that wrong) and stood there ground despite a force of Free Marcher armies marching on their position to help City Elves is the exact same of Fellasen and his clan letting the elves of Halamshiral die. 
 
Clone Wars! Initiate Order 66!

* army of templars corner dalish mage and killed them followed by a sequence of mages everywhere being killed ending with a keeper feeling the death* "no..."

[d4eaming]

Indeed. And the Lavellan clan risking themselves to save the city elves of wymott (probably spelled that wrong) and stood there ground despite a force of Free Marcher armies marching on their position to help City Elves is the exact same of Fellasen and his clan letting the elves of Halamshiral die. 

 

Clone Wars! Initiate Order 66!

 

....omg

 

I would totally play a game of Dalish civil war, my progressive elf working to make reforms and improve lives for all elves, city and Dalish.

[raging_monkey]

....omg
 
I would totally play a game of Dalish civil war, my progressive elf working to make reforms and improve lives for all elves, city and Dalish.

same. Enough of human-centric areas more elf stuff

[Addai]

. Do the Dalish question that they have lost immortality due to humans?

I'm sure that being herded into alienages and enslaved does wonders for lifespan.

Do they doubt that humans destroyed Arlathan?

Already asked, and answered by Lobselvith. Furthermore it's not untrue that Tevinter destroyed Arlathan, simply because they had already been weakened by internal wars. That was true of Rome and Byzantium, but we still speak of them being conquered.

Do they doubt that their version of events is true?

This also has already been asked and answered. But as you're one of the chuckleheads mentioned upthread, I don't expect a discussion to arise from any of it.

[Aren]

ah I forgot that the dalish were all a hive mind and everyone thought the same thought, and had the same idea and opinion. Clearly a culture with different clans is going to be 100% monolithic and the same. I forgot about that part of the lore.

Did i have said that they have the same idea ? they are the same in the sense that they are Dalish.  Merrill and marethari have different thoughts .However they are the supposed heirs of the ancient elves of Arlathan many of them desire to return to be the same as the past, they are not like the city elves they do not want to become somthing new they want to recover their past, but even Abelas have rejected them and he is one of the ancient elven.

This is way i belive that is better for them to remove some of the useless  bound  that they have  like the valesslin  and try to keep only the good thing of the past like the eluvians.

[Master Warder Z_]

Stupid sexy humans!

[herkles]

same. Enough of human-centric areas more elf stuff

One thing I hope to see is a new kingdom of Arlathan, based in well the forest of Arlathan and dealing with all the numerous complications that will arrise from when it is formed. Taking the knowledge from the temple of Mythal, and the emerald graves and building upon it with new ideas. There would be lots of internal conflict, which IMO makes for better stories. 

 

also I want to see the kingdom of Kal-sharok. 

[Timpants]

 

Did i have said that they have the same idea ? 

Yes:

"It's not just the dalish but unlike them shamlen are not the same"

[Steelcan]

They had their chance to establish a new elven kingdom, in DA:O and they retconned it away, in DA:I the Inquisition has the resources to set up a new state but its not even mentioned

A new elven state is not happening

Besides they'd just lose it again and we'd all have to put up with their whining

[Aren]

Stupid sexy humans!

At last we are sexy (maybe because of the body model that they have choose for DAI for the Human) and most important Without the Valesslin 

Vive la liberté

[Sifr]

They had their chance to establish a new elven kingdom, in DA:O and they retconned it away, in DA:I the Inquisition has the resources to set up a new state but its not even mentioned

A new elven state is not happening

Besides they'd just lose it again and we'd all have to put up with their whining

 

They also retconned the Ferelden Circle being made independent if you picked the Mage boon at the end of Origins... only to have all the Circle's rise up in Asunder and possibly be completely abolished at the end of Inquisition.

 

Compared to that, an elven state being reformed if the Dalish ever decided to get their arses in gear, doesn't seem to be that far-fetched.

[Reznore57]

They had their chance to establish a new elven kingdom, in DA:O and they retconned it away, in DA:I the Inquisition has the resources to set up a new state but its not even mentioned

A new elven state is not happening

Besides they'd just lose it again and we'd all have to put up with their whining

 

I think they're building up something else with the elves , with Solas going on a solo crusade to help the "People".

I'm not sure what's going to happen , there's a high chance of Solas simply failing at whatever he's doing.

But if the devs wants the story of the Dalish to move on , they need some miracle at this point.

I'm thinking after the templars/mages stuff , the elves are the next bringing the debate about magic into play.

[Steelcan]

I'm sure that being herded into alienages and enslaved does wonders for lifespan.Already asked, and answered by Lobselvith. Furthermore it's not untrue that Tevinter destroyed Arlathan, simply because they had already been weakened by internal wars. That was true of Rome and Byzantium, but we still speak of them being conquered.This also has already been asked and answered. But as you're one of the chuckleheads mentioned upthread, I don't expect a discussion to arise from any of it.

Wrong answer though, we know from Felassan that this immortality was limited to the ruling class, it was not universal, but the Dalish still blame humans for losing it, long before alienages were established.

Answered unsatisfactorily, IMO

[Aren]

Yes:

"It's not just the dalish but unlike them shamlen are not the same"

DAlish is a group even if they have many clans around Thedas to be a dalish you must have some general idea, feelings, (proud to be one of the supposed heir of the ancient elves) the priority must be to recover the past.

While shamlen means everthing outside the dalish, maybe even the city elves.

[Steelcan]

They also retconned the Ferelden Circle being made independent if you picked the Mage boon at the end of Origins... only to have all the Circle's rise up in Asunder and possibly be completely abolished at the end of Inquisition.
 
Compared to that, an elven state being reformed if the Dalish ever decided to get their arses in gear, doesn't seem to be that far-fetched.

the difference is that it was an ongoing issue

Meanwhile there hasn't been such a plotline with the elves

[Steelcan]

I think they're building up something else with the elves , with Solas going on a solo crusade to help the "People".
I'm not sure what's going to happen , there's a high chance of Solas simply failing at whatever he's doing.
But if the devs wants the story of the Dalish to move on , they need some miracle at this point.
I'm thinking after the templars/mages stuff , the elves are the next bringing the debate about magic into play.

Well Sola's has said he doesn't consider elves his people. He likely refers to spirits like him

[Hellion Rex]

Well Sola's has said he doesn't consider elves his people. He likely refers to spirits like him

Or perhaps he just meant the modem version of the elves, specifically the city elves and especially the Dalish.

[Steelcan]

Or perhaps he just meant the modem version of the elves, specifically the city elves and especially the Dalish.

but he doesn't consider them his people... As per his dialogue post-Halamshiral