253 réponses à ce sujet

[scintilla]

I think they learned their lesson with the inevitable bad ending with DA2 and MO3

 

One would hope

 

Maybe. People also complained that ME3 didn't have a definitive boss fight. So they may have decided on the formula of complex antagonists and Big Bads that no one cares about killing for the sake of having a final boss fight.

 

But maybe they didn't. I know nothing, obviously, but we shouldn't say "it won't happen" because of what BioWare has done in the past. They might just do something new.

 

I don't think nearly as many people would be bothered by an inevitable death for Solas as we're assuming. It wouldn't be a bad end if the hero saved the world, even if someone they cared about/the player cared about died. ME3's ending was both tragic, on personal and setting wide levels, and poorly written (to be fair, they wrote themselves into that corner long before ME3 came out). It may have worked if ME3 was a standalone game but it was not well considered in the context of the trilogy. After three games with the crew and the galaxy, people didn't take well to seeing all of it wiped out. DA2 suffered from the combination of player choice, that makes players identify more strongly with their PC, and refusing to give Hawke/the player a single victory. It may be realistic but it doesn't feel good to lose everything or to lose all the time.

 

Losing Solas would only be a pyrrhic victory for people who really, really like Solas.

[wildannie]

 

 

But maybe they didn't. I know nothing, obviously, but we shouldn't say "it won't happen" because of what BioWare has done in the past. They might just do something new.

 

 

Losing Solas would only be a pyrrhic victory for people who really, really like Solas.

It better not happen then!   Seriously,  I really don't need the first BW game after ME3 to kill off another of my characters LIs unavoidably.    So I've now got visions of them sitting in the aftermath of ME3, with all the campaigns, posters letters etc related to what happened to Thane coming in, and deciding...

 

'that went well, lets do it again!'.  

 

Obviously it is up to them, but if my character is ever forced to fight and kill Solas I will have to seriously consider whether BW games are for me.  

 

I think part of my issue is that, at present,  I'm trusting Solas that what he is planning is something that has to be done, the fact that he would 'kill anyone' being an indication of just how serious/important his mission is,  he is destroying his own soul to achieve this, it is not for his own personal gain, he's paying a terrible price.  

 

*****

 

I think a lot of people really really like Solas,  okay there are the usual haters, but in general there seems to a great deal of interest in his character, he's The Dread Wolf!  it would be crazy to just bring him in then kill him off, what a total waste that would be!

 

I'm going to expect a choice until I hear otherwise 

[SamanthaJ]

Yay for Team Optimism!

 

 

I believe he won't die,

 

even if we have to fight,

 

I'll think about it every night and day,

 

Hoping there'll be some DLC to play,

 

I believe there'll be more,

 

at least that's what I'm hoping for,

 

I believe he won't die

[Klystron]

Yea verily. Preferably the kind of sex where Solas is all flabbergasted that you were able to find him at all and you're like HAHAHA LOOK WHO'S WEARING THE SMARTYPANTS NOW MISTER YEAH LOOK AT THIS DALISH BUTT IT'S COVERED IN SMARTYPANTS YOU KNOW YOU WANT IT and oh man he totally does. 

 

 

I'm sure there will be some sort of confrontation about that weird side plot about the end of the world or whatever, but in the end she just totally wrecks him with sex. 

 

Haha, just give me an "OH MY GOD!" dialogue button that I can hit as many times as I want 

 

* * * * *

 

edit:

 

Seriously, though...

I think a Wolf Hunt DLC would just be to smooth things over a bit, as it seems like there is a lot of unfinished business regarding the Dwarves and what the Taint is and what blue/red Lyrium are. That will probably be DA4, and we probably won't see much of Solas (or Morrigan) until the final installment (DA5?)

 

JMO

[scintilla]

So long as the death is done respectfully and is well written, it won't be that bad. The Mass Effect team really screwed up with Thane and Jacob. I think the Dragon Age team will respect both the characters and the players, whatever they're planning.

 

If he's going to be important to the lore, he may end up with the ultimate plot armor of invincibility and be completely untouchable. Or, if the story is written to necessitate his death, he'll die. If he's important, he'll be like Morrigan. She may be a gentler/angrier person but you can't kill her or change her role in the story in any capacity. It just may end up being that you can't save Solas instead of not being able to kill him. Could go either way. (Schrodinger's Solas?)

 

If he's not that important after whatever he's doing has played out, there will probably be a choice like there was with Anders.

 

Seriously, though...

I think a Wolf Hunt DLC would just be to smooth things over a bit, as it seems like there is a lot of unfinished business regarding the Dwarves and what the Taint is and what blue/red Lyrium are. That will probably be DA4, and we probably won't see much of Solas (or Morrigan) until the final installment (DA5?)

 

JMO

 

This seems pretty likely to me. If whatever Solas does is incredibly world changing, they'll probably save him for the final installment.

[Klystron]

Agree.

Speculating a bit further, Wolf Hunt might need to pull the romanced/didn't_romance versions back together enough that they don't have to write 2 different games for the future installments.

[Sable Rhapsody]

What if Solas is an attempt to change that pattern? I really don't like the "but they always do it this way" argument. They aren't obligated to do things a certain way because it's what they've done in the past. Telling new stories or telling them in different ways shouldn't be unthinkable.

 

Fair enough.  And I don't think they ARE obligated to tell their stories a certain way, I just don't see Solas being cast in the same mold as, say, the Archdemon or the Reapers from ME3.  It's harder to just mindlessly oppose a character who has a lot of sympathetic elements.

 

Honestly, if Solas has to be an antagonist, I'd like him to be in the vein of the Illusive Man back in ME2, while we're drawing Mass Effect analogies.  While he took a hard turn toward Idiot Villain in ME3, TIM of ME2 was an intelligent guy who actually did raise some good points and could cause the player to re-examine their views.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Double post >< 

[scintilla]

Agree.

Speculating a bit further, Wolf Hunt might need to pull the romanced/didn't_romance versions back together enough that they don't have to write 2 different games for the future installments.

 

The romance/friend paths aren't too different but whether he was friendly with the Inquisitor or not may need to be smoothed out so that everyone's on the same page for his next appearance.

 

Fair enough.  And I don't think they ARE obligated to tell their stories a certain way, I just don't see Solas being cast in the same mold as, say, the Archdemon or the Reapers from ME3.  It's harder to just mindlessly oppose a character who has a lot of sympathetic elements.

 

Honestly, if Solas has to be an antagonist, I'd like him to be in the vein of the Illusive Man back in ME2, while we're drawing Mass Effect analogies.  While he took a hard turn toward Idiot Villain in ME3, TIM of ME2 was an intelligent guy who actually did raise some good points and could cause the player to re-examine their views.

 

Agreed. I linked to the TVTropes page for Well-Intentioned Extremist in my first post in this thread. It says some of the best examples of the trope are ones the audience stops just short of agreeing with and I can see Solas going that way.

[jawsisinmywc]

I would totally pay for a Solas Sex Scene DLC. Just putting that out there.

[Renmiri1]

I would totally pay for a Solas Sex Scene DLC. Just putting that out there.

You, me and a great many Solasmancers but I think Bioware doesn't want to make a DAI dating sim, no matter how much it would sell 

[Renmiri1]

The romance/friend paths aren't too different but whether he was friendly with the Inquisitor or not may need to be smoothed out so that everyone's on the same page for his next appearance.

 

 

Agreed. I linked to the TVTropes page for Well-Intentioned Extremist in my first post in this thread. It says some of the best examples of the trope are ones the audience stops just short of agreeing with and I can see Solas going that way.

 

I think the 3 Tarot cards are foreshadowing.

 

Tower - A rival Solas can evolve to be the big baddie that destoys all and it's your own damn fault for pushing him away

 

Friend Hierophant - I think he starts wanting to go the  dark part and we can change his mind

 

Lover Hierophant - He comes back for Lavellan and doesn't destroy the world, someone else does. Kinda like on ME1 the coup could be done by one guy or another

[scintilla]

I think the 3 Tarot cards are foreshadowing.

 

Tower - A rival Solas can evolve to be the big baddie that destoys all and it's your own damn fault for pushing him away

 

Friend Hierophant - I think he starts wanting to go the  dark part and we can change his mind

 

Lover Hierophant - He comes back for Lavellan and doesn't destroy the world, someone else does. Kinda like on ME1 the coup could be done by one guy or another

 

The Hierophant card is exclusive to the romance.

 

He's not coming back for Lavellan. He has a mission he feels he needs to complete, he's not going to change his mind easily. From a storytelling perspective, unless he loses the power he took from Mythal, he's too powerful to be an ally to the heroes. He can act like Flemythal has, and nudge things but they aren't going to write a 'god' with the power of a 'god' getting involved on the side of the heroes because it gives them an unfair advantage.

 

I don't remember what you're talking about with Mass Effect but there hasn't been another potential antagonist introduced, so there's really nothing to back up that idea?

[wildannie]

The Hierophant card is exclusive to the romance.

 

He's not coming back for Lavellan. He has a mission he feels he needs to complete, he's not going to change his mind easily. From a storytelling perspective, unless he loses the power he took from Mythal, he's too powerful to be an ally to the heroes. He can act like Flemythal has, and nudge things but they aren't going to write a 'god' with the power of a 'god' getting involved on the side of the heroes because it gives them an unfair advantage.

 

I don't remember what you're talking about with Mass Effect but there hasn't been another potential antagonist introduced, so there's really nothing to back up that idea?

The power he has from Mythal may not be permanent, he could require it to carry out an extremely powerful spell, which would then leave him drained.

 

Bioware can kill Solas unavoidably if they wish, but I can guarantee, it is not possible for it to be done in a way that is not going to ****** me off.  He's a companion and a LI, I'm simply not interested in seeing that ****, no matter how 'well written' it is.  I'm all about the choice.  Every unavoidable result irks me, being able to have a different outcome is where the magic lies and  as you mention, there are ways this can be done without changing the end result.

 

Edit - quoted wrong post - am drunk - which is a rarity as 'I don't drink' lol

Modifié par wildannie, 27 décembre 2014 - 01:04 .

[Sable Rhapsody]

The power he has from Mythal may not be permanent, he could require it to carry out an extremely powerful spell, which would then leave him drained.

 

Bioware can kill Solas unavoidably if they wish, but I can guarantee, it is not possible for it to be done in a way that is not going to ****** me off.  He's a companion and a LI, I'm simply not interested in seeing that ****, no matter how 'well written' it is.  I'm all about the choice.  Every unavoidable result irks me, being able to have a different outcome is where the magic lies and  as you mention, there are ways this can be done without changing the end result.

 

So out of curiosity, what did you think of the conclusion to Anders' story in DA2?  It has elements of choice and inevitability in it; you can't stop him from blowing up the Chantry in-game, but you CAN decide how to deal with the aftermath and what to do about Anders himself.  

 

Would a situation like that be acceptable for Solas, even if the options weren't exactly happy?

[wildannie]

So out of curiosity, what did you think of the conclusion to Anders' story in DA2?  It has elements of choice and inevitability in it; you can't stop him from blowing up the Chantry in-game, but you CAN decide how to deal with the aftermath and what to do about Anders himself.  

 

Would a situation like that be acceptable for Solas, even if the options weren't exactly happy?

I'm fine with that, I never romanced Anders with any of my Hawkes though.  I think it would have been nice if if there had been a possiblity to dissuade him, and for someone else to  carry the baton to the same end, but I can understand the inevitability of it being Anders as he is not entirely himself.  What I really wanted was to be able to remove Justice from him, it made me sad that he had lost much of himself to vengeance. 

 

Things that bothered me in DA2 were Leandra, Meredith and Orsino,  I would have  loved to have had some agency in those outcomes - would have been great for re playability for me.   I guess that the framed narrative is a way of explaining that these events were set in stone but in DAI we are playing in 'realtime' so I would hope to have more impact on outcomes.

 

I'm not sure if Mythal will be able to have the same impact on Solas as Justice did, my gut feeling is that she will not.  I really don't want him to become a 'villain' at all,  I want his actions to be in shades of grey, and for the inquisitor's interpretation and reaction to them to be a choice.

 

Edit: On happiness - I would like a 'happy' ending for them but that includes - dying together (as an avoidable option), uthenera(sp?) together, quizzy going rogue on inquisition and taking his side, or traditionally happy walking off into sunset (leaving chaos in their wake ).

 

I would not enjoy lavellan ensuring he doesn't die alone, but being left alone herself.  Lavellan having to take him out or lose the game, Lavellan being killed by Solas, or him dying alone.

Modifié par wildannie, 27 décembre 2014 - 02:14 .

[Renmiri1]

My bad, he has only 2 final cards

[Renmiri1]

The Hierophant card is exclusive to the romance.

 

He's not coming back for Lavellan. He has a mission he feels he needs to complete, he's not going to change his mind easily. From a storytelling perspective, unless he loses the power he took from Mythal, he's too powerful to be an ally to the heroes. He can act like Flemythal has, and nudge things but they aren't going to write a 'god' with the power of a 'god' getting involved on the side of the heroes because it gives them an unfair advantage.

 

I don't remember what you're talking about with Mass Effect but there hasn't been another potential antagonist introduced, so there's really nothing to back up that idea?

 

On the first game you can make Anderson's friend or other guy be part of the galatic council at Citadel and the guy you pick will betray you if i recall correctly

[jawsisinmywc]

So out of curiosity, what did you think of the conclusion to Anders' story in DA2?  It has elements of choice and inevitability in it; you can't stop him from blowing up the Chantry in-game, but you CAN decide how to deal with the aftermath and what to do about Anders himself.  

 

Would a situation like that be acceptable for Solas, even if the options weren't exactly happy?

I thought that it fit with the DA2 story quite well. I mean that story was really about extraordinary events happening to an ordinary person. I felt like the whole point of it was that one person can't control everything.

That being said I am very conflicted about how BW will handle Solas. DAI was very much about choice except for killing Corypheenus. As much as would love for there to be a lot of choice when dealing with Solas (assuming the Inquisitor will be the one dealing with him) I can't imagine them making that choice Thedas-changing, since they after all have to tell a story for everyone and as far as I know wish to continue the DA universe. Two very different ending would just not be feasible. I highly doubt they will have a "war table mission" vaguely mentioning what became of him. Either way I want answers and I want good answers now, cause I can't stop thinking about this topic and it is driving my hatters mad!

One thought I had is that if/when Solas releases the elven gods, is that the elves return to power will be slow and progressive. Solas himself was very weak after his slumber and I assume the others would be as well.

[scintilla]

I'm all about the choice.  Every unavoidable result irks me, being able to have a different outcome is where the magic lies and  as you mention, there are ways this can be done without changing the end result.

 

Everything can't be a choice. BioWare would need to make multiple games if they let the players decide every important event in the games. The mage/templar conflict needed to happen for the story, so there was no way to stop it. Was it written sort of sloppily towards the end? Sure, and Orsino loses it if you side mages because they wanted another boss fight not because of story reasons. But there have to be important people who do important things in the story, they can't all be interchangeable for the sake of protecting characters people like - they did that in ME3 and people hated it. But everyone needed to have the same story told. Allowing so much choice means a lot of choices have to have their impact taken away. The OGB could have been a big plot point but because players got to choose if it existed or not, it was basically nullified as anything in DAI. The soul still exists but that can never affect the story in any significant way.

 

You can't kill any of your DAI companions. BioWare probably learned the hard way with Leliana that if they want to use a character again for any reason, they have to take away the player's ability to choose if they live or die.

 

On the first game you can make Anderson's friend or other guy be part of the galatic council at Citadel and the guy you pick will betray you if i recall correctly

 

You can make Anderson or Udina a member of the council. By ME3, Udina is the councilor no matter who you chose and Udina always betrays you.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Everything can't be a choice. BioWare would need to make multiple games if they let the players decide every important event in the games. The mage/templar conflict needed to happen for the story, so there was no way to stop it. Was it written sort of sloppily towards the end? Sure, and Orsino loses it if you side mages because they wanted another boss fight not because of story reasons. But there have to be important people who do important things in the story, they can't all be interchangeable for the sake of protecting characters people like - they did that in ME3 and people hated it. But everyone needed to have the same story told. Allowing so much choice means a lot of choices have to have their impact taken away. The OGB could have been a big plot point but because players got to choose if it existed or not, it was basically nullified as anything in DAI. The soul still exists but that can never affect the story in any significant way.

 

It's definitely a difficult line to walk between player choice and coherent narrative.  IMO the illusion of choice is more important; let the players feel like they have agency and control even if the plot susses out more-or-less the same.  IMO ME2 did a masterful job of the illusion of choice; Shep didn't have any control over main plot elements, but almost all of the sidequests and companion quests had decisions tied to them.  They didn't amount to anything plot-critical at the end; the suicide mission happens no matter what and is very hard to fail unless you're really trying.  But I was much less bothered by the railroading in ME2 than in, say, DA2 or ME3 because despite putting me on rails for the main plot, the game masked it by letting me exert agency in a million little ways.  Even But Thou Must elements like working for Cerberus and losing Horizon allowed Shep to express different opinions or at least TRY to affect the outcome.

 

Hopefully they can pull off that illusion of choice for Solas's plot going forward.  If the Bad Thing needs to happen, fine.  But let me have Solas 

[jawsisinmywc]

So I noticed sashimi taco posted another video with more back masking. The voices from the well refer to "The Calling" frequently. This combined with "Flemeth's story comes to a head-- she knew that Solas would summon her..." makes me wonder if Solas has some way of making the other gods come or something. Any thoughts? I have diarrhea thoughts today.



By the way sashimi thank you so much for this!

[Rekkampum]

Being railroaded into killing your LI would be the shittiest thing BioWare has ever done and I for one would would walk.  There has to be choice, they should know that, the shitstorm would be IMMENSE.

 

*thinks about Anders in DA 2*

 

After what he did I couldn't really see it being a choice.

[scintilla]

*thinks about Anders in DA 2*

 

After what he did I couldn't really see it being a choice.

 

I almost always let Anders live. It's nice that I can do that, even if other players don't see any reason to.

[Uirebhiril]

I almost always let Anders live. It's nice that I can do that, even if other players don't see any reason to.

 

I always felt my Hawke did it as a mercy to Anders. It was kinder than what people would have done to him had he been caught, in her mind. Not an easy decision for her, but the last best way she saw to be his friend in spite of everything.

 

She DID want to knife Sebastian for yelling at her to do it at all, though. Jerkface.

 

But yes, if they let people have the option of letting Anders live, I hope we don't end up forced to witness or participate in a love interest's death. Even if it were tragically beautiful, it might just kill my soul a little bit.