253 réponses à ce sujet

[CardinalSin90]

Am I crazy to feel upset after coming across this spoiler? I felt upset to the extent I didnt want to play DAI yesterday. I really don't want a scenario where he turns into some villain and I am forced to put him down :/ I am tired of doomed romances..the feels kill me

[Kittn]

Some of these posts made me realize I was looking at this a little tunnel-visoned on Solas's elfy stuff. I'm sorry for the long post incoming as I get this sorted in my noggin:
 
Thinking again of Sandal's prophecy. "One day the magic will come back. All of it. Everyone will be just like they were. The shadows will part and the skies will open wide. When he rises, everyone will see."
 
More signs point to that "he" being Solas now, no? Mind, while he is all elven glory, he is also very pro magic, mysticism and spirits. He wants people to be as they were. He want's the magic and crystal spires and spirits being part of every day life back. What he is doing now will effect everyone, not just the elves.
 
On the blight: We learn that red lyrium is lyrium that has the blight. So I started to consider Lyrium as sort of... well, to borrow from Final Fantasy, the lifestream. Perhaps it is the lifeblood of the planet, and by having its nature split by the veil, that lifeblood has become more and more cancerous without the spiritual connection to cleanse it. It would seem that the Magisters were not the ones who caused the blight to begin, in that case.
 
It was Solas. What he did for the elven people broke the world for everyone, and now the cracks are really starting to show.
 
There's a banter between Solas and Blackwall where he challenges the Wardens' approach to stopping the blights. Says he something along the lines of, "You believe that once all the archdemons are dead, the blights will end?" Blackwall is baffled, asks him what's wrong with that. There is a long pause and eventually Solas says "Nothing. I hope that you are correct."
 
So how's this change my PoV?
 
I believe that Solas knows that the only way to stop the blight - the thing that is corrupting everything - forever is to bring down the veil which will release the ancient elven gods.
 
What if he doesn't want to free them? And all of Cole's readings are actually reflecting what Solas is afraid of - them waiting, watching, preparing.  After all, they're all still the same punks they were before, and now they've been nursing a grudge for centuries to boot. When the veil is sundered and they return, they will be out for blood, no? His blood.  
 
He will be standing at ground zero, and he doesn't want the Inquisitor to be caught in the crossfire and aftermath. As magic seeps back into every living being on Thedas, and many, many people find their hair suddenly aflame, he'll be fighting for his life against his very angry, very powerful ancient peers. He doesn't expect to survive. But the Inquisitor - Lavellan or no- and the foundation they began has to. Otherwise there will be no damage control.
 
From the game design standpoint: We started with the blight. It makes sense for it to be at the heart of all the chaos - including the magic versus mundane wars. Solas is taking the first step towards fixing that. We won't be able to stop him. But I really, really hope that we will be able to save him. It will be That part in Death Note for me all over again if we can't. (That part being when I just flat up stopped caring what happened next - and for a video game that translates into No Sale.)
 
What I do hope happens is that we get to deal with Solas and his angry ancients in DLC as opposed to a new game because I think the inquisitor should be the one to confront him personally. I want to rescue Solas from the brink of death, bring him back to Skyhold and question him. Glass Cage optional.Then decide whether or not to let him die or nurse him back to health. That way we have the information to confront these ancient demi-gods head on in the next game.
 
And Solas and Lavellan have a chance to live relatively happily ever after once the world is working again.

[jellobell]

^(that crab is cute)

 

Would they really railroad us into doing something like that? I mean, Loghain and Anders...but if Solas is as ruthless as that note says...

 

Noooooooooo! Team Positive!

I...really don't want to believe it. And deep down, I don't (if I did I'd be way more pissed right now). But just the thought is making me feel awful.

 

I just know I wouldn't be able to do it. And if I was forced to do it then I'd put down my controller and walk away. Being railroaded into killing your LI would be the worst thing Bioware has ever done. Worse than the Mass Effect 3 ending.

[Kulyok]

Thank you for that thread, ladies! (Solavellan sistership forever!)

 

I think it's pretty much what we expected from the start. Except for now we know (and it warms my heart) that Morrigan will get Flemeth' knowledge and perhaps essence, which means that we'll see her again, and which also means my Mahariel is now romancing a goddess(a nice little family, yep). 

 

And it's shown that Solas isn't murdering Flemeth in cold blood - indeed, it's a noble sacrifice, not unlike the one where one Warden kills the Archdemon so people could live.

 

It seems that either Solas is going to use this power to straight out rebuild Arlathan, or to protect elves from something terrible and elven-related that's coming.

 

And no, he isn't getting out of the relationship with my Lavellan that easily.

 

And yes, he's still Solas.

 

And I think I'm still in doubt on whether he killed Felassan - he was a friend, and he was a valued ally, and he respected Fen'Harel, so there should have been a debate, a confrontation, a conversation. But banal nadas - anything is possible.

[SamanthaJ]

I...really don't want to believe it. And deep down, I don't (if I did I'd be way more pissed right now). But just the thought is making me feel awful.

 

I just know I wouldn't be able to do it. And if I was forced to do it then I'd put down my controller and walk away. Being railroaded into killing your LI would be the worst thing Bioware has ever done. Worse than the Mass Effect 3 ending.

I wouldn't probably never play the game again if that happened.

 

I think they know that forcing players do something like that, especially to a companion and romance option, would not go over well. Besides, Patrick wouldn't tease us if that was the plan...would he?

[Shari'El]

Some of these posts made me realize I was looking at this a little tunnel-visoned on Solas's elfy stuff. I'm sorry for the long post incoming as I get this sorted in my noggin:
 
Thinking again of Sandal's prophecy. "One day the magic will come back. All of it. Everyone will be just like they were. The shadows will part and the skies will open wide. When he rises, everyone will see."
 
More signs point to that "he" being Solas now, no? Mind, while he is all elven glory, he is also very pro magic, mysticism and spirits. He wants people to be as they were. He want's the magic and crystal spires and spirits being part of every day life back. What he is doing now will effect everyone, not just the elves.
 
On the blight: We learn that red lyrium is lyrium that has the blight. So I started to consider Lyrium as sort of... well, to borrow from Final Fantasy, the lifestream. Perhaps it is the lifeblood of the planet, and by having its nature split by the veil, that lifeblood has become more and more cancerous without the spiritual connection to cleanse it. It would seem that the Magisters were not the ones who caused the blight to begin, in that case.
 
It was Solas. What he did for the elven people broke the world for everyone, and now the cracks are really starting to show.
 
There's a banter between Solas and Blackwall where he challenges the Wardens' approach to stopping the blights. Says he something along the lines of, "You believe that once all the archdemons are dead, the blights will end?" Blackwall is baffled, asks him what's wrong with that. There is a long pause and eventually Solas says "Nothing. I hope that you are correct."
 
So how's this change my PoV?
 
I believe that Solas knows that the only way to stop the blight - the thing that is corrupting everything - forever is to bring down the veil which will release the ancient elven gods.
 
What if he doesn't want to free them? And all of Cole's readings are actually reflecting what Solas is afraid of - them waiting, watching, preparing.  After all, they're all still the same punks they were before, and now they've been nursing a grudge for centuries to boot. When the veil is sundered and they return, they will be out for blood, no? His blood.  
 
He will be standing at ground zero, and he doesn't want the Inquisitor to be caught in the crossfire and aftermath. As magic seeps back into every living being on Thedas, and many, many people find their hair suddenly aflame, he'll be fighting for his life against his very angry, very powerful ancient peers. He doesn't expect to survive. But the Inquisitor - Lavellan or no- and the foundation they began has to. Otherwise there will be no damage control.
 
From the game design standpoint: We started with the blight. It makes sense for it to be at the heart of all the chaos - including the magic versus mundane wars. Solas is taking the first step towards fixing that. We won't be able to stop him. But I really, really hope that we will be able to save him. It will be That part in Death Note for me all over again if we can't. (That part being when I just flat up stopped caring what happened next - and for a video game that translates into No Sale.)
 
What I do hope happens is that we get to deal with Solas and his angry ancients in DLC as opposed to a new game because I think the inquisitor should be the one to confront him personally. I want to rescue Solas from the brink of death, bring him back to Skyhold and question him. Glass Cage optional.Then decide whether or not to let him die or nurse him back to health. That way we have the information to confront these ancient demi-gods head on in the next game.
 
And Solas and Lavellan have a chance to live relatively happily ever after once the world is working again.

 

This connects somewhat with a weird conversation I had with Dagna

 

 

1:31

 

Especially at 1:38 when she says

 

 

Like the lyrium needs to flow, but if you are part of it, it takes you with it. So you can't be part of it.

That makes me sad, not sure why. It seems like we should be part of it. Whatever "it" is.

[Renmiri1]

Oh god, I don't want to be forced to kill Solas. That is just the absolute worst-case scenario.

 

 

Just thinking about it is making me feel sick.

 

 

^(that crab is cute)

 

Would they really railroad us into doing something like that? I mean, Loghain and Anders...but if Solas is as ruthless as that note says...

 

Noooooooooo! Team Positive!

He can't be

 

He isn't

 

I'm not playing a DA game where Solas is evil     

[Shari'El]

I...really don't want to believe it. And deep down, I don't (if I did I'd be way more pissed right now). But just the thought is making me feel awful.

 

I just know I wouldn't be able to do it. And if I was forced to do it then I'd put down my controller and walk away. Being railroaded into killing your LI would be the worst thing Bioware has ever done. Worse than the Mass Effect 3 ending.

 

Yes, I agree.

I'd rage quit and won't play the game :/

Especially since it's such a well developed & interesting character, it's beyond LI (though it is heartbreaking), it's like really killing someone, he's written so well he can be a plausible person I know and admire :|

[Avejajed]

I have the Masked Empire- I read 1/4 through and gave up when it first came out, because I just couldn't get my teeth into it, if that makes sense.

So last night I grabbed my Kindle to start again and this time I'm not giving up. Maybe it will give me clearer insight.

Merry Christmas, by the way!

[Renmiri1]

Yes, I agree.

I'd rage quit and won't play the game :/

Especially since it's such a well developed & interesting character, it's beyond LI (though it is heartbreaking), it's like really killing someone, he's written so well he can be a plausible person I know and admire :|

Yeah, is like shattering all you thought about a character. It can't be. Why would his writer listen to Hallelujah of all things if Solas is this thing that kills all in his way ??

[Ajna]

Jello - Of all the Nope gifs, you had to use that one? *shudder*

 

Yes, I agree.

I'd rage quit and won't play the game :/

Especially since it's such a well developed & interesting character, it's beyond LI (though it is heartbreaking), it's like really killing someone, he's written so well he can be a plausible person I know and admire :|

 

He is very much like a real person that I know and admire, so all the nope for me.

[Neleothesze]

Some of these posts made me realize I was looking at this a little tunnel-visoned on Solas's elfy stuff. I'm sorry for the long post incoming as I get this sorted in my noggin: Thinking again of Sandal's prophecy. "One day the magic will come back. All of it. Everyone will be just like they were. The shadows will part and the skies will open wide. When he rises, everyone will see." More signs point to that "he" being Solas now, no? Mind, while he is all elven glory, he is also very pro magic, mysticism and spirits. He wants people to be as they were. He want's the magic and crystal spires and spirits being part of every day life back. What he is doing now will effect everyone, not just the elves. On the blight: We learn that red lyrium is lyrium that has the blight. So I started to consider Lyrium as sort of... well, to borrow from Final Fantasy, the lifestream. Perhaps it is the lifeblood of the planet, and by having its nature split by the veil, that lifeblood has become more and more cancerous without the spiritual connection to cleanse it. It would seem that the Magisters were not the ones who caused the blight to begin, in that case. It was Solas. What he did for the elven people broke the world for everyone, and now the cracks are really starting to show.

I think it's too bad that you can't share with Solas what happened in the fake-future/the future you undo. Because the Veil is completely gone by that point and the world isn't back to what it had been before the Fade and the real world separated. The Blight may have been cured by reuniting the two but the disease isn't gone, it's just seeped deeper into the world.

The things he talks about in Haven... about a world where spirits and people lived side by side... I don't think we can go back to something like that so easily. The red lyrium can't just disappear.... (and to continue your Final Fantasy comparison, you need a miracle to heal the lifestream or you just get the geostigma) and I don't think Solas wants to admit it. He wants to believe that he can just undo it all: unlock the eluvian(s) to release the gods and remove the veil perhaps.
Sure, give everone magic and 90% of people will fall prey to demons and red lyrium madness... (especially since red lyrium seems to thrive in the presence of Fade magic)

On a lighter note... when we catch up to him.. Lavellan should insist on implementing Sera's solution : "Drop em and rebuild the empire."

[Uirebhiril]

I think it's too bad that you can't share with Solas what happened in the fake-future/the future you undo. Because the Veil is completely gone by that point and the world isn't back to what it had been before the Fade and the real world separated. The Blight may have been cured by reuniting the two but the disease isn't gone, it's just seeped deeper into the world.
 

 

Or maybe that's the problem. The red lyrium is seeping into the world and causing trouble because of a weakening Veil and something has to be done about it.

 

Not likely, but who knows?

[Lorien19]

Oh god, I don't want to be forced to kill Solas. That is just the absolute worst-case scenario.



Just thinking about it is making me feel sick.

The fact that I'm an arachnophobe and I liked your post,pretty much sums how I agree with this.
I'd absolutely hate to have to kill him,he's my bloody favourite character!

[Ajna]

I'm arachnaphobic too!  Why'd you have to quote it again?! *runs away*

[SamanthaJ]

But the spider/crab/bug/whatever it is I don't know thingy is cute when it buries itself. It's just bashful.

[Shari'El]

On a lighter note... when we catch up to him.. Lavellan should insist on implementing Sera's solution : "Drop em and rebuild the empire."

 

Touch elfy bits

[Sable Rhapsody]

So I'm at my parents' place for the holidays and have terrible Internet, but I had to get in my 2 cents on the spoilers.

 

I'm not surprised that the tone for Solas in the dev notes is more of an antagonist, or at very least someone like Flemeth.  Whatever else he may be, however much he cares for the Inquisitor, he's still a dangerous, driven, and often misguided man.  And very powerful now to boot.  However, I doubt that he's going to be a Big Bad sort of villain.

 

The Big Bads (ie; Archdemon and Corypheus) in DA games never get much character development or setup.  Scary bad thing trying to destroy world.  Punch in face.  Rinse, repeat.  Even Corypheus, who got a decent amount of lore attached to him, was never meant to be sympathetic or interesting beyond his role as Big Bad.

 

The characters who are major antagonists but not straight-up evil (Loghain, The Architect, Flemeth, Celene/Gaspard/Briala, Calpernia, Alexius, Arishok, Meredith, and Orsino) get lots of backstory and setup, enough to make them potentially sympathetic to the player.  Even Meredith and Orsino, who suffer from the patchy nature of DA2, have hidden gems of depth; you just have to do a bit more digging for the two of them.  Also, there are way more of these types of antagonists in DA than there are Big Bads; the devs have taken pains to create characters who inhabit shades of grey, even if some are darker than others.

 

Back to Solas.  He's had a whole game of character development and backstory, including a romance arc, hours of content setting up his essential humanity for lack of a better word.  He epitomizes the sympathetic antagonist much better than the straight-up villain.

 

IMO Anders is a better model for Solas's potential character arc, a companion and potential romance who nevertheless places his goals above all else.  In fact, I would apply the line about Solas being willing to kill anyone for his goals to Anders as well.  There were huge problems with Anders' Act 3 implementation, namely the inability of the PC to do anything remotely sensible to stop him, but I hope BioWare learned from that.  If anyone could stop Solas or change his mind, it would be the Inquisitor.  Even for a non-romanced quizzy, he points out how quizzy surprises him and challenges his expectations.

 

Also, the silver lining for antagonist!Solas is the chance to see him play Xanatos Speed Chess against my Lavellan who romanced him.  Such feels, much drama.  After Solas leaves, she's in so much pain, but she uses it as an opportunity to grow and learn.  She stops wearing her heart on her sleeve, learns some of Iron Bull's Ben-Hassrath techniques, becomes a master of the Great Game.  If she does decide to stand against whatever Solas is trying to do, dude's got his work cut out for him.

 

tl;dr: Solas is not going to be a straight-up bad guy.  Too much character development for that.

[jawsisinmywc]

Some of these posts made me realize I was looking at this a little tunnel-visoned on Solas's elfy stuff. I'm sorry for the long post incoming as I get this sorted in my noggin:
 
Thinking again of Sandal's prophecy. "One day the magic will come back. All of it. Everyone will be just like they were. The shadows will part and the skies will open wide. When he rises, everyone will see."
 
More signs point to that "he" being Solas now, no? Mind, while he is all elven glory, he is also very pro magic, mysticism and spirits. He wants people to be as they were. He want's the magic and crystal spires and spirits being part of every day life back. What he is doing now will effect everyone, not just the elves.
 
On the blight: We learn that red lyrium is lyrium that has the blight. So I started to consider Lyrium as sort of... well, to borrow from Final Fantasy, the lifestream. Perhaps it is the lifeblood of the planet, and by having its nature split by the veil, that lifeblood has become more and more cancerous without the spiritual connection to cleanse it. It would seem that the Magisters were not the ones who caused the blight to begin, in that case.
 
It was Solas. What he did for the elven people broke the world for everyone, and now the cracks are really starting to show.
 
There's a banter between Solas and Blackwall where he challenges the Wardens' approach to stopping the blights. Says he something along the lines of, "You believe that once all the archdemons are dead, the blights will end?" Blackwall is baffled, asks him what's wrong with that. There is a long pause and eventually Solas says "Nothing. I hope that you are correct."
 
So how's this change my PoV?
 
I believe that Solas knows that the only way to stop the blight - the thing that is corrupting everything - forever is to bring down the veil which will release the ancient elven gods.
 
What if he doesn't want to free them? And all of Cole's readings are actually reflecting what Solas is afraid of - them waiting, watching, preparing.  After all, they're all still the same punks they were before, and now they've been nursing a grudge for centuries to boot. When the veil is sundered and they return, they will be out for blood, no? His blood.  
 
He will be standing at ground zero, and he doesn't want the Inquisitor to be caught in the crossfire and aftermath. As magic seeps back into every living being on Thedas, and many, many people find their hair suddenly aflame, he'll be fighting for his life against his very angry, very powerful ancient peers. He doesn't expect to survive. But the Inquisitor - Lavellan or no- and the foundation they began has to. Otherwise there will be no damage control.
 
From the game design standpoint: We started with the blight. It makes sense for it to be at the heart of all the chaos - including the magic versus mundane wars. Solas is taking the first step towards fixing that. We won't be able to stop him. But I really, really hope that we will be able to save him. It will be That part in Death Note for me all over again if we can't. (That part being when I just flat up stopped caring what happened next - and for a video game that translates into No Sale.)
 
What I do hope happens is that we get to deal with Solas and his angry ancients in DLC as opposed to a new game because I think the inquisitor should be the one to confront him personally. I want to rescue Solas from the brink of death, bring him back to Skyhold and question him. Glass Cage optional.Then decide whether or not to let him die or nurse him back to health. That way we have the information to confront these ancient demi-gods head on in the next game.
 
And Solas and Lavellan have a chance to live relatively happily ever after once the world is working again.

You have just put into words what I have been thinking! So much this!

[jawsisinmywc]

 

 

I'm not surprised that the tone for Solas in the dev notes is more of an antagonist, or at very least someone like Flemeth.  Whatever else he may be, however much he cares for the Inquisitor, he's still a dangerous, driven, and often misguided man.  And very powerful now to boot.  However, I doubt that he's going to be a Big Bad sort of villain.

 

The Big Bads (ie; Archdemon and Corypheus) in DA games never get much character development or setup.  Scary bad thing trying to destroy world.  Punch in face.  Rinse, repeat.  Even Corypheus, who got a decent amount of lore attached to him, was never meant to be sympathetic or interesting beyond his role as Big Bad.

 

The characters who are major antagonists but not straight-up evil (Loghain, The Architect, Flemeth, Celene/Gaspard/Briala, Calpernia, Alexius, Arishok, Meredith, and Orsino) get lots of backstory and setup, enough to make them potentially sympathetic to the player.  Even Meredith and Orsino, who suffer from the patchy nature of DA2, have hidden gems of depth; you just have to do a bit more digging for the two of them.  Also, there are way more of these types of antagonists in DA than there are Big Bads; the devs have taken pains to create characters who inhabit shades of grey, even if some are darker than others.

 

 

 

You actually get slivers of humanity as well about Corypheus if you take the templar route and do the Calpirnia side quests.

[chibielf]

After reading this... I just hope, if it goes bad no matter what. I want a chance to die with. If my Levallan in forced to kill her true love, she will not let him die alone. She wil save the world from him, but die with him.


*tears*

[Sable Rhapsody]

You actually get slivers of humanity as well about Corypheus if you take the templar route and do the Calpirnia side quests.

 

I got some weird bugs in the Temple of Dumat, so I didn't actually read any of Cory's codex entries and then forgot about them later  That's interesting, I'll have to pay more attention on my next playthrough.

[scintilla]

The Big Bads (ie; Archdemon and Corypheus) in DA games never get much character development or setup.  Scary bad thing trying to destroy world.  Punch in face.  Rinse, repeat.  Even Corypheus, who got a decent amount of lore attached to him, was never meant to be sympathetic or interesting beyond his role as Big Bad.

 

What if Solas is an attempt to change that pattern? I really don't like the "but they always do it this way" argument. They aren't obligated to do things a certain way because it's what they've done in the past. Telling new stories or telling them in different ways shouldn't be unthinkable.

[Renmiri1]

. It will be That part in Death Note for me all over again if we can't. (That part being when I just flat up stopped caring what happened next - and for a video game that translates into No Sale.)

 

When L died ?

 

I stopped watching. Near was cute enough but no. Just No.

 

And ya I hope you are right, my LAvellan wants to save Solas

[Renmiri1]

After reading this... I just hope, if it goes bad no matter what. I want a chance to die with. If my Levallan in forced to kill her true love, she will not let him die alone. She wil save the world from him, but die with him.


*tears*

Reminds me of Revan going bad in Kotor.. and Carth just staying with her, no matter what until they both die on the space station when at the last minute she stops helping the baddies.. because of him.

 

Da feels!

 

 

What if Solas is an attempt to change that pattern? I really don't like the "but they always do it this way" argument. They aren't obligated to do things a certain way because it's what they've done in the past. Telling new stories or telling them in different ways shouldn't be unthinkable.

 

 

I think they learned their lesson with the inevitable bad ending with DA2 and MO3

 

One would hope