109 réponses à ce sujet

[Korva]

I liked how he considered Hawke to be his best friend, though I was sad that he was too intimidated by the Inquisitor to ever really become proper friends... always figured he'd be a little more open minded than that, lol.

 

I'd call Varric very open-minded, actually. Not only is he willing and able to work with a wide variety of people, he does his best to be friendly with them even if they are dismissive (Vivienne) or plain weird (Cole), and tries to get them to get along with each other too. If anyone can take credit for good party morale, it's probably Varric. And the fact that he's kind of an "it could be true and I like the idea of it" closet Andrastian despite that being a very human-centric religion definitely marks him as the open-minded sort, too.

 

I do think he's a friend and a good one at that, and being in awe of the Inquisitor as a "chosen one" doesn't really get in the way of that.

[Kulyok]

I completely agree with the OP about judging Bianca and recruiting her. I was really surprised I couldn't judge her (recruit her, execute her for a huge hit to Varric's approval, or possibly just let her go).

 

I did like the romantic line for Varric, myself. I think it's very beautiful when someone loves one woman their entire life, even if she marries someone else(Severus Snape, anyone?). And when it's someone who's a complete opposite of Snape, and a good friend - well, I think it adds depth to his character. And it felt good to play through the thing.

[Ynqve]

I totally agree that we should have been able to judge her and to give Varric our opinion on the relationship. I didn't find it romantic at all, and I would have liked the option to tell Varric so and take a huge approval loss. Friends are supposed to tell you what you need to hear, and sometimes that's not what you want to hear. 

 

I've seen some people here claiming that the real reason why some of us don't like Bianca is because she stole our man. If you've read the Varric thread then you know that it's not like that at all. We Varricmancers dealt with him not being a LI a long time ago. We accepted it and moved on, all we wanted was for him to be happy because the guy deserves it. We wanted to like Bianca. But that's not what we got, I saw a bitter and tired man who's wrapped up in things that's beyond his control. While I didn't like Bianca, I would have liked it if Varric decided to fight for his happy ending with her or move away from the relationship to find something else. The whole situation is stupid, I can't really see how it benefits anyone. Bianca's stuck in a marriage to a man that she doesn't love, her husband is stuck with a wife who cheats on him and Varric is stuck pining away after Bianca. And if Bianca's family is cool with her in that situation, then they're not worth it. They don't care about her happiness, if she's so strong and awesome then why should she accept that? 

 

And as I said, after the threat I really wanted to bring her in for judgment. It may have been a honest mistake, but she helped Coryphyshit. My diplomatic Trevelyan might have let it slide, but my Lavellan and Cadash wouldn't. We helped her clean up her mess and she thanks us by threatening us? She may be a genious, but she's making some really stupid decisions. Threatening the Inquisitor is beyond idiotic, especially when you just admitted to handing Cory the red lyrium.

[hong]

How could Varric let Bianca go? He's been using her for years!

You don't just find a crossbow like that every day, you know.

[Avejajed]

I find the Varric and Bianca situation both frustrating and realistic.

 

Frustrating because the whole situation is very...defeating. It's going to eat away at Varric who clearly needs to move on. I interpreted Bianca as being fond of Varric but not in love with him. She's using him for whatever she gets out of the relationship and he's using her as some sort of crutch. They are like two users who can't get enough pain so they keep going back for more. It's frustrating to watch because I felt no love, respect, admiration or anything of the sort between the two of them. Just some sort of reliance. Lots of history just means the claw goes deeper.

 

Realistic because how many times do we see that in real life? I can count right off the top of my head relationships like this that are literally so soul-sucking it's not even funny. 

 

I'm sure lots of people won't see this relationship as fatalistic as I do and that's okay, I think it's open to interpretation, but poor Varric deserves better. I could have punched her when she warned me not to hurt him. I wish they would have let me.

[Han Shot First]

Varric is very clear he doesn't consider you a friend-friend.

He considers you his boss he admires, respects, and is kind of intimidated by.

Mostly because he considers you to be Jesus.

 

This.

 

Hawke is Varric's best friend. The Inquisitor isn't.

 

 

 

 

The fact that we can't resolve the Bianca/Varric issue is also a huge flaw in the game.  A few people above have said we shouldn't be able to.  Really?  We can basically decide if Bull becomes Tal-Vashoth, but not whether Varric moves on from a crush/obsession/unhealthy relationship he's been in for 15 years.  Really?

 

The Qunari/Tal Vashoth decision doesn't involve having Bull act out of character, because either outcome is believable for his character arc. Throughout the entire lead up that it was clear that the Bull was torn between two worlds...his role as a Ben hassrath and the Tal Vashoth identity he adopted, that had clearly become something more than just a cover. In some ways the Iron Bull had gone a little bit too native. Those two sides of him were already in a tug-of-war before the mission where you decide the fate of the Chargers.

 

On the other hand having Varric cast aside the love of his life, regardless of whether or not that relationship is entirely healthy, would be very much out of character. There is no indication whatsoever that Varric is on the fence about Bianca.

 

Also, not every romance in fiction needs to have a fairly tale ending. I don't think Varric and Bianca need one either. It's supposed to be a bit tragic, and should probably remain so.

[Twilight_Princess]

I think my response to her telling the Inquisitor to look after Varric with a threat, would have been "perhaps you should learn to take your own advice", since she's not exactly done the best job of keeping him safe herself, lol.

 

 

 

I would have loved to have said that! I agree with what a poster has said already that ,as the Inquisitor ,it would have felt odd to give Varric personal romance advice. Since it's not like they have a 10 year relationship which would allow for that sort of opinion. My Hawke however? You bet she would have sat him down and had a loooooong talk. Hey, he gave her romance advice in the past too remember? She would just be returning the favour .

As a character, I know I was expected to find her amazing but the truth is Bianca just came across as selfish and rather unlikable to me. Intended or not, she was the reason behind the red lyrium problem and I was annoyed she automatically walked off scot free when I had judged other people for doing far less. I don't hate Bianca just to be clear, my opinion is that her reveal and her character was just very "meh".  It also didn't help that I  was very aware she avoided judgment and was allowed to make casual threats to the Inquisitor because she was Varric's **** buddy  twoo wuv.

 

Speaking of Varric, I'll be honest, my opinion of him has lowered a tad *ducks* . I'm sorry ,it was just rather pitiful finding out he had settled for sleeping with a married woman, knowing it would never go anywhere. You can't help who you fall in love with true, but it doesn't stop a relationship being unhealthy. The Bianca thing turned out (much to my disappointment) not to be this wonderful love story or tragic one after all. The crossbow personification feels a bit weird now too...

[tmp7704]

I suspect lot of negative reactions to Bianca comes from that bit at the end where she zomg dares to threaten the holy PC. Because if the older installments are anything to go by then, while players are more than happy to dish this sort of stuff out, they sure as heck rarely can take it. Especially if the NPC gets the Last Word.

And that this woman also happens to keep Varric occupied likely doesn't help the matter either. While some will claim it's totally not about that and we already got over him not being available I doubt this sentiment is universal.

[rda]

I suspect lot of negative reactions to Bianca comes from that bit at the end where she zomg dares to threaten the holy PC. Because if the older installments are anything to go by then, while players are more than happy to dish this sort of stuff out, they sure as heck rarely can take it. Especially if the NPC gets the Last Word.And that this woman also happens to keep Varric occupied likely doesn't help the matter either. While some will claim it's totally not about that and we already got over him not being available I doubt this sentiment is universal.

She threatens us out of nowhere, though. This isn't a matter of "dishes, but can't take" this is a matter of "is this woman a psycho, or merely mentally unstable"?

[rda]

It doesn't help that Bianca comes off as an entitled, self-absorbed jerk. She causes a huge mess that has more than likely killed several people already, with the potential to kill several more...and her reaction is...well, I don't know what you'd call it, precisely, but...underwhelming? It's like, "Whoops, my bad!"

And it doesn't help that her priority when discovering this mistake is not doing her utmost to save innocent lives by shutting things down IMMEDIATELY, it's "let me cover my a** and my involvement in this."

[Chernaya]

I suspect lot of negative reactions to Bianca comes from that bit at the end where she zomg dares to threaten the holy PC. 

 

For me, that was merely icing on the cake after the sudden revelation of what she had done. Bianca wasn't the first character to talk down to my PC, but she was probably the first to do so right after admitting to doing something completely foolish and destructive. 

[tmp7704]

She threatens us out of nowhere, though. This isn't a matter of "dishes, but can't take" this is a matter of "is this woman a psycho, or merely mentally unstable"?

I agree it feels pretty abrupt. I think she's just reacting badly to Varric being upset with her, and taking it out on the nearest person. Under normal circumstances it'd probably be a parting, friendly request to look out for Varric and keep him safe, minus the threatening bit.

[rda]

 
I've seen some people here claiming that the real reason why some of us don't like Bianca is because she stole our man. If you've read the Varric thread then you know that it's not like that at all. We Varricmancers dealt with him not being a LI a long time ago. We accepted it and moved on, all we wanted was for him to be happy because the guy deserves it. We wanted to like Bianca. But that's not what we got, I saw a bitter and tired man who's wrapped up in things that's beyond his control. While I didn't like Bianca, I would have liked it if Varric decided to fight for his happy ending with her or move away from the relationship to find something else. The whole situation is stupid, I can't really see how it benefits anyone. Bianca's stuck in a marriage to a man that she doesn't love, her husband is stuck with a wife who cheats on him and Varric is stuck pining away after Bianca. And if Bianca's family is cool with her in that situation, then they're not worth it. They don't care about her happiness, if she's so strong and awesome then why should she accept that? .

I think it benefits Bianca. She has social acceptance and financial stability from her husband AND has a f*ck buddy on the side in Varric, who is devoted to her. She's having her cake and eating it too, which is absolutely repellant.

[Korva]

I suspect lot of negative reactions to Bianca comes from that bit at the end where she zomg dares to threaten the holy PC. Because if the older installments are anything to go by then, while players are more than happy to dish this sort of stuff out, they sure as heck rarely can take it. Especially if the NPC gets the Last Word.

 

Heh, there's a lot of truth in this. Many players like playing the callous, snarky, rude, uncaring and egocentric assbag at least occasionally, but if the tables are turned and we can't immediately gut the "offender" or humiliate them with being right as usual (because we're always right), it's heresy.

 

I do admit her pathetic threat annoyed me on the player-ego level, but not as much as that overall attitude of deception and lack of responsibility for her actions, as well as her pretty much insulting Varric when he told her this is bigger than fixing one of her machines. And it is. He and I and the others are risking everything every day to fix it while she'll be gone in a moment, so she really has absolutely no leg to stand on making threats, insults or demands. Yes, she's in a bad spot and not at her best -- and for a generic character that would be enough explanation (if not excuse) for crappy behavior, but if this is a character who is supposed to be very special to someone I consider a friend, I'd have liked a look at what he actually sees in her. One or two "like old times" remarks are not nearly enough.

[hong]

I didn't feel offended by Bianca's threat. I felt a little bit touched by the depth of feeling that she still has for Varric. Also somewhat amused, because all the female dwarves in this game look like they're 14 years old.

[AutumnWitch]

It really irked me that Bianca made that threat towards the Inquisitor. I understand we are supposed to take from that that she really loves Varric but it just brought back memoires about how Sister Patrice (DA2) was able to get away with so much crap and we as the protagonist were not able to do anything about it. So frustrating.

 

This is how it really would have gone down if Cassandra was there.

 

1. Bianca makes here threat. 

2. *Swoosh* Cassandra's sword flies out of it's sheath.*

3. *Plop* Bianca's head hits the ground.

4. *Swoosh* Cassandra's sword goes back in its sheath

5. Varric faints

6. They all move on.

 

I know that was harsh...but you threaten someone in that type of position who just pulled YOUR OWN ARSE OUT OF THE FIRE and expect to get away with it. Not going to happen. 

[Ynqve]

I think it benefits Bianca. She has social acceptance and financial stability from her husband AND has a f*ck buddy on the side in Varric, who is devoted to her. She's having her cake and eating it too, which is absolutely repellant.

 

Yeah, that's the worst case scenario. And if it were true, then my Hawke would have fireball with Bianca's name on it. But we don't get to see enough of Bianca to tell how she feels about the whole thing. 

 

I suspect lot of negative reactions to Bianca comes from that bit at the end where she zomg dares to threaten the holy PC.

 

Maybe. But the thing that gets me mad is that I can't react to it at all. It's completely out of character for some of my Inquisitors to just stand there and let her get away with it, especially since she just admitted to handing Coryphyfish the red lyrium. 

[rda]

Yeah, that's the worst case scenario. And if it were true, then my Hawke would have fireball with Bianca's name on it. But we don't get to see enough of Bianca to tell how she feels about the whole thing. 

Maybe you're right, but we can infer a great deal. The thing that tells me she's a jerk is...why doesn't she run away with Varric if she loves him so much?

Outside of her having children she can't leave, which is a remote possibility, there's no earthly reason for her not to, outside of her own selfish interests.

[Ynqve]

Maybe you're right, but we can infer a great deal. The thing that tells me she's a jerk is...why doesn't she run away with Varric if she loves him so much?

Outside of her having children she can't leave, which is a remote possibility, there's no earthly reason for her not to, outside of her own selfish interests.

 

Because twu wuv is star-crossed? Idk, the whole situation is so stupid.

[Former_Fiend]

Maybe you're right, but we can infer a great deal. The thing that tells me she's a jerk is...why doesn't she run away with Varric if she loves him so much?

Outside of her having children she can't leave, which is a remote possibility, there's no earthly reason for her not to, outside of her own selfish interests.

 

Maybe you're right, but we can infer a great deal. The thing that tells me she's a jerk is...why doesn't she run away with Varric if she loves him so much?

Outside of her having children she can't leave, which is a remote possibility, there's no earthly reason for her not to, outside of her own selfish interests.

 

Hell, she shouldn't even have to run away.

 

If she is so invaluable, so indefensible to the merchant's guild as Varric makes her out to be, then she should be able to leverage that into getting to keep Varric as a paramour.

[rda]

The thing is, they've basically wrote the Bianca storyline where the only way it makes logical sense is if Bianca is a user and Varric is an idiot.

Which would be fine, sh!tty but fine, if that's what they intended to do. After all, there are real life situations like this.

But, having just replayed the quest again, I DONT think this is what they were going for. They were going for "Awww, star crossed lovers...isn't that sweet." They just failed. It's like they forgot the ages and situations of their characters. The whole, "My mommy and daddy made me marry this dude," is fine when you're 17. When you're 40, and you've been with "that dude" for a decade, it's a choice.

[SpiritMuse]

Maybe. But the thing that gets me mad is that I can't react to it at all. It's completely out of character for some of my Inquisitors to just stand there and let her get away with it, especially since she just admitted to handing Coryphyfish the red lyrium.

This. Out of nowhere you get a horrific threat thrown at your head, even if you basically take her side, and you don't get to react to it at all. Not all characters would have chosen [Say nothing.]

[AWTEW]

 Yeah, I wondered that too O.P. It seemed a little odd, that it was sort of let hanging.

 

As for who  Varric should move on with asinglehawkelikehecouldhaveinDA2ifit wasnotcut maybe Dagna, or Cassandra..

[Asakti]

I did like the romantic line for Varric, myself. I think it's very beautiful when someone loves one woman their entire life, even if she marries someone else(Severus Snape, anyone?). And when it's someone who's a complete opposite of Snape, and a good friend - well, I think it adds depth to his character. And it felt good to play through the thing.

 

This is possibly the divide between fans - there are those who, like you, find the idea romantic.  And then there are those who, like me, find the idea repellant.  I love a good romance myself, and I do like the idea of holding onto that against the odds.  But it seems like Bianca gets the better end of the deal: she has her husband; her families acceptance and Varric when she wants him.  And Varric holds onto the bits of Bianca that he can get - she gets the best of both, and he just is left with the scraps.

 

It just doesn't sit nicely with me.   I can see the romantic angle, but I just think if you love the guy so much, you'd want him to move on and find love again - not holding on like Varric is doing.

 

And really, I'll never be able to laugh at him romanticising his crossbow again in DA2 now that I know part of the story.

[tmp7704]

The thing is, they've basically wrote the Bianca storyline where the only way it makes logical sense is if Bianca is a user and Varric is an idiot.

Since when feelings, especially love, are logical?

But if you want logic, here's simple one -- what if Bianca loves not only Varric but also her parents and so doesn't want to disobey them, even if it comes at personal cost? Or, ancestors forbid, actually developed some feelings for her husband, too?

People act as if troo wuv only ever happens in vacuum and if it doesn't then well you better move on because you're clearly not getting the best possible deal. After all if it's not the best possible deal then it's totally not worth it at all, amirite? But life is often much more complicated than that, especially when you are not the wide eyed, self-centered eighteen year old anymore, but have lived and known a number of people for a while.

If I'm not mistaken Varric has met Bianca when he already had some life experience under his belt, perhaps he actually knows what he's choosing and doing, and why. For all we know maybe he isn't with anyone else simply because he didn't yet meet anyone he'd actually want to be with, instead.