Agreed; liked it in solo style, too.
It almost seems like bioware is thinking about making a dragon age MMO and already have some of the ground work done. Skyhold would be your housing, the capital cities would be the hubs, you either play supporting the mages or the templars as a faction for pvp. Add a few instances and its a MMO. I am sure it isn't that simple but it seems like everyone wants to jump into the MMO market.
I didn't say DAO wasn't a great RPG. It very obviously is great. I just don't see it doing anything better than DAI beside its PC UI. A lot of other aspects are purely subjective (quality of story and characters) and the only other major element, side quests, are arguable depending on how much you value dialogue and flavour choices.
People need to stop assuming that when I say X>Y I am somehow saying that Y is bad. That's just not a possible conclusion.
you flat out said the dude was wrong in his evaluation of DA:O, therefore the conclusion i can draw from that is that you think DA:O is a bad game... if you don't think that then why did you go out of your way to belittle his opinion?
i didn't simply assume, i took what was given and made something of it
It almost seems like bioware is thinking about making a dragon age MMO and already have some of the ground work done. Skyhold would be your housing, the capital cities would be the hubs, you either play supporting the mages or the templars as a faction for pvp. Add a few instances and its a MMO. I am sure it isn't that simple but it seems like everyone wants to jump into the MMO market.
His evaluation of DAO was that it did things better than DAI. I was pretty explicit in my response that I only saw it as superior in UI. I was snarky only in response to an outright insult.you flat out said the dude was wrong in his evaluation of DA:O, therefore the conclusion i can draw from that is that you think DA:O is a bad game... if you don't think that then why did you go out of your way to belittle his opinion?
i didn't simply assume, i took what was given and made something of it
I believe this is missing the point -- if the regular zones don't use animation resources and such to begin with, then "sacrificing" such zone(s) even from the start still isn't going to produce more of such animation resources, and the level builders won't automagically acquire skills which will allow them to function as animators instead. At best you may be able to alter your crew composition, but that presumes more skilled animators are easy to find and waiting for nothing but BioWare's call.Sacrificing or cutting has to be done at the very beginning in the development process (then it's not really sacrifice, is it?) - when ideas are not yet implemented. If sacrificing or cutting is done later on, you basically waste your time and resources.
Considering a lot of side quests in the Witcher 2 boil down to "gamble with this guy", "brawl with that guy" and "kill a monster over there", and that I actually had to check the Wiki to remember what more was there beyond two basic kill quests (that stuck in my mind because I was fighting the combat system during them as much as I was fighting the mobs) ... I can't really take this very seriously. Especially when it's combined with a claim this side content helped to flesh out the world, while at the same time you consider the DAI equivalents to be incoherent and apparently not fleshing out the world in similar manner?I agree with many forum members claiming that DA:I simply lacks coherency (on multiple levels: story-wise, side content-wise, technically, design-wise) and I echo their complaints. The Witcher games does not. You can say anything about them, but not that they lack coherency. I remember the side-quests fondly; not all of them obviously, but some were entertaining and helped flesh out the world (one of the main functions of side content).
DAO was a masterpiece for its time, and was released about 5 years ago.
Its UI is supperior to DA:I.
Obviously the new Frostbite 3 engine blows anyway anything from 5 years ago.......
My impression is BioWare went from PC gaming to console controller gaming with DA2 as an experiment and it failed, so they tried again, trying to incorporate some things from DAO into a new version of DA2 = DA:I.
DA:I has great graphics, scenary, sound effects, bells and whistes with anything goes sex, sex, sex, but as far as storyline, plots, great quests, its almost empty and a shell of what DAO was all about. DAO didn't have the best graphics engine of its day but it did have an excellent storyline, great plots, really good romance characters options without making everyone bi and gay, like its now a bi and gay fest and with blatent swearing too.
If DA:I doesn't have great sales, like DA2, this could be it for the series and all because they didn't listen to the gamers after DAO and went for the money......
I believe this is missing the point -- if the regular zones don't use animation resources and such to begin with, then "sacrificing" such zone(s) even from the start still isn't going to produce more of such animation resources, and the level builders won't automagically acquire skills which will allow them to function as animators instead.
What you say is true, obviously. But you still either don't get it or intentionally dodge my point. I'll try to explain again.
Animation plays only one role in the zone creation process. Even if the pool of already existing animations is sufficient to animate the entire zone (which I doubt), then the animator can focus his attention elsewhere, yes (like trying to fix the wonky movement animation - they didn't so I guess they had their hands full). Good reasoning. Now apply this reasoning to level and quest designers. If they don't need to bother themselves with tons of additional stuff (because the pool of already existing resources cannot grant them that - if it did, it would mean they are reusing environments [like DA2 did] and reusing quests), they have more time and resources to improve what already exists. It's quantity or quality, as I states a few pages before. The general consensus on this forum seems to be that they definitely could have used more development time. Which is a clear sign that they spread themselves too thin.
It also doesn't address the other issue I've raised -- that is, having your writers simply spend more time on smaller number of quests doesn't in any way guarantee your typical player won't just ignore this whole improved writing exactly like they did it with the current version and complain just the same, except in addition to complaining how the whole experience was for them nothing but boring "go to quest marker after a quest marker with no connection to the story" (because hey, the connection was in the writing that got ignored) ... they may now also complain the game wasn't as big and as long as they wanted their "epic RPG" to be?
Ah, but if they opted for quality and dedicated more time to the quests, no one would accuse them of half-assed content. They work will defend itself. If the players ignore it, that's their loss and a separate matter actually. If the writers spend more time on a number of quests, there is a high probability that these quest will be meaningful and have personality, however, there is no guarantee, as you mentioned.
Considering a lot of side quests in the Witcher 2 boil down to "gamble with this guy", "brawl with that guy" and "kill a monster over there", and that I actually had to check the Wiki to remember what more was there beyond two basic kill quests (that stuck in my mind because I was fighting the combat system during them as much as I was fighting the mobs) ... I can't really take this very seriously. Especially when it's combined with a claim this side content helped to flesh out the world, while at the same time you consider the DAI equivalents to be incoherent and apparently not fleshing out the world in similar manner?
Very selective memory, but I didn't expect anything different. I'll bite, why not.
The very first sidequest - Melitele's Heart - a group of mercenaries have a bet before the battle, that the youngest of them will go into battle without wearing any armor, but only a magical amulet. They stole this amulet earlier from a bunch of priestesses (and raped them). The mercenaries don't know its properties, and they want your expertise. You cannot tell right away, but can advise the fighter to wear it, screw the bet and wear a proper armor, and take the amulet yourself to inspect later on (as you believe it may bring bad luck). If you advised the guy to wear the amulet only, he's gonna die in battle. If you suggested wearing armor, the boy will survive and as you meet him later on, he will be thankful for your advice, as in the heat of the battle he would have got crushed by other armored fighters, as the formation was this tight. If you take it for yourself, the quest continues until you find a witch in the village, who recognizes this amulet right away and offers you quite a sum for it without any explanation. You may sell it, or keep it, asking what's the fuss. She will tell it's an ancient amulet that used to grant its owner luck and other magical properties, but after so many years, its magic got corrupted and now it brings only bad fortune. You may choose to unlock the amulet's properties by conducting a ritual near a statue of a forgotten god. As you commence the ritual with the help of the witch, she channels the power needed to lift the amulet's curse while you defend her from the wraiths that dwelled within it.
Another one has you investigating a local mansion, which was used as a mental institution but now lies in ruin. As you go there, a desperate scholar begs for your help from monsters. You save him and he asks you to help his friend, who descended into the mansion and hasn't returned. You head down the stairs into the ruins and, if you are a perceptive type, notice twisted writings made with blood on the walls (environment as a storytelling device) everywhere. You find his companion, but he's in the firm grasp of madness (the place is, after all, haunted). You help the poor guy come to his senses, and he reveals a tale of treachery. Later, you encounter a ghost that has been roaming the mansion. He, on the other hand, reveals a story of monstrosities that happened in the asylum and apparently, the two lads you met earlier are responsible. You have a choice to bring them before the ghost, who devours their hearts, or to warn them of the ghost's intentions.
Other early game quest has you participating in a party with the Blue Stripes (a government intelligence institution). Geralt gets stone drunk and wakes up the other day on the beach with no equipment and major hangover. You then need to run around the town collecting pieces of information of what has happened the night before. The tale is quite hilarious.
I didn't cherry-pick the quests, mind you. These are a handful of the first sidequest you encounter. I can go on. Granted, these quests play ok - your mileage may vary, but they are generally well-designed and offer welcome distraction from the main story (that's neither grindy nor too time-consuming). You do not need to bother yourself with them much, as they are pretty much incorporated into the main story (like Melitele's Heart - you do not have to run around finding this and that; you just stumble upon what is needed to complete the quest).
If you find these quest absolutely unremarkable, yet defend the myriad of pointless 'fetch me x of these furs' 'fetch me x of these herbs', then I do not really think we gonna reach anything conclusive or constructive here.
Peace.
I don't know how good the game actually is, because I can't stand the chore of playing it to find out.
That may be the entire problem. Today the gameplay is perceived as something we endure to reach the game.
In the good old days of gaming, the gameplay was the game. You did not slog through gameplay just to find out what happens in the story.
The ME$ hype wagon has begun on Google, by the way, which is what I find now instead of the next DA:I patch news that I should be finding there.
Considering a lot of side quests in the Witcher 2 boil down to "gamble with this guy", "brawl with that guy" and "kill a monster over there"
Oh, regarding 'kill a monster over there' quests.
Geralt is a professional monster slayer, it only makes sense. If you want to properly finish monster slaying quests, you need to gather necessary information about the monsters in questions in a form of a book, folk legend, dialogue etc. And again, these quest are just along the way of the main quest, so you complete them as you proceed with the story.
Whereas in DA:I, all those fetch quest, shards collecting and whatnot - look, you are the leader of the Inquisition. Can't you send your people to do that? It's a minor thing for your minions, right? Or is bringing 10 elfroots to a peasant so crucial to the cause of stopping the demons and protecting Thedas? Come on, mate, answer with honesty.
The ME$ hype wagon has begun on Google, by the way, which is what I find now instead of the next DA:I patch news that I should be finding there.
That's where the money is. The games themselves are of secondary importance.
you're probably one of those people that also swore he'd never buy another bioware game after mass effect 3 ending as well.
It's easy to sum up what DA I's real problem was. They tried to be like Skyrim. When they talked about how they looked at Skyrim for inspiration, guess they meant it in the literal sense
The problem is, it seems the only things they got from Skyrim were the bad ones : the uninspired plot, the uninteresting sidequests, the terrible consolized UI and the shallowness. It seems that Bioware try very hard to only grab the worst of each inspiration and manage to ruin every hybrid design they try.
I didn't say DAO wasn't a great RPG. It very obviously is great. I just don't see it doing anything better than DAI beside its PC UI. A lot of other aspects are purely subjective (quality of story and characters) and the only other major element, side quests, are arguable depending on how much you value dialogue and flavour choices.
People need to stop assuming that when I say X>Y I am somehow saying that Y is bad. That's just not a possible conclusion.
I don't claim you said DAO is bad, I said you're laughably ridiculous pretending DAO did nothing better than DAI beside the UI.
And that's to keep it polite.
Considering a lot of side quests in the Witcher 2 boil down to "gamble with this guy", "brawl with that guy" and "kill a monster over there", and that I actually had to check the Wiki to remember what more was there beyond two basic kill quests (that stuck in my mind because I was fighting the combat system during them as much as I was fighting the mobs) ... I can't really take this very seriously. Especially when it's combined with a claim this side content helped to flesh out the world, while at the same time you consider the DAI equivalents to be incoherent and apparently not fleshing out the world in similar manner?
I answered to this very point already 
It is not the best i agree on that but worst no, that place is reserved for ME3 and DA2.
Its a 7.5/10
I agree with the 7.5/10, but only once they fix the technical problems many people seem to have.
I had a lot more fun playing DA2 and ME3 though.
I feel like your explanation was already addressed in the earlier replies, so there's no dodging here really or anything. To recap: from the opinions on the forums it appears that the one thing people point out as source of their dissatisfaction with current quests is lack of cinematics when talking with the quest givers at the start and end of the quest. That's why I pointed out that skipping a few zones isn't going to generate any extra animation resources, and so the remaining zones couldn't really be improved by this in a manner these who complain would perceive as some actual, tangible improvement.What you say is true, obviously. But you still either don't get it or intentionally dodge my point. I'll try to explain again.
No, I don't believe it is so. Again, I direct you to the listing of all Witcher 2 quests: http://witcher.wikia...itcher_2_questsVery selective memory, but I didn't expect anything different. I'll bite, why not.
Story is good. Quests are okay, no need to do them all. But it still has loads of bugs that need dealt with.
I don't know about the story bit. I actually think the main plot is pretty underwhelming in this game, all things considered.
Both DA:O and DA2 had a better main story.
from the opinions on the forums it appears that the one thing people point out as source of their dissatisfaction with current quests is lack of cinematics when talking with the quest givers at the start and end of the quest.
I see. From the opinions on the forums, I gathered that the lack of cinematic feel is just one (and rather minor) complaint, incidentally voiced by the people who do not mind the grindy, inapt, unconnected side quests. There is a lot (more) of dissatisfaction regarding the substance (or lack thereof) of side quest, and I thought you were referring to this issue. I did.
No, I don't believe it is so. Again, I direct you to the listing of all Witcher 2 quests: http://witcher.wikia...itcher_2_quests
Ignore the ones which are acquired as part of the main plot. You're now left with the side-quests (and not that many of them total but that's another story) Now see how many of them are "challenge X to arm wrestling/dice poker/fist fight" or the contracts taken from notice board? Answer: at least 16 out of 40 total. That's 40% or more, which I think is fair to call "a lot".
Also yes, I realize "kill that monster over there" happens to fit Geralt's profession. That really doesn't change the basic nature of these quests, though.
I'll bite again, just to make you admit you are wrong.
Here is a better site for TW2 side quests - http://uk.ign.com/wi..._1_-_Sidequests(that's chapter 1 only)
17 side quests in chapter 1.
The Nekker Contract and The Endrega Contract - eradicate (kill) a certain type of monsters. First, you need to gather knowledge to unlock the possibility to eradicate them. You do that by obtaining a book, or talking to the locals. To exterminate nekkers, you need to make three bombs (which means you need to know the recipe) to destroy three nests. To exterminate endregas, you have to draw their queen (a mini boss) by destroying their reproduction pods. Sure, the premise is kill X monster, but they spiced it up a little, won't you agree?
Troll Trouble is not really a monster hunter quest. Sure, you can kill the miserable troll, but you can also investigate his case, which results in him going back to his bridge-keeping duties.
Poker Face, Bring It On, One on One are your standard mini-games - play poker, arm wrestle or box activities present in every chapter. Good, quick way to earn money (which is damn scarce).
The Fight Club is a more story-oriented fighting side quest. You get to fight in an underground arena. The event is organized by Loredo, the village overseer, with whom you talk. You can intentionally lose in the last fight, so Loredo nets some money, or spite him and win the fight. In any event, you learn a thing or two about him, which may help you decide whether or not to pick his side (or Iorweth's) when push comes to shove at the end of the chapter.
The rest are more content oriented. Some can be completed right away, some carry over to the next chapter. Each quest has a backstory, feels in place and coherent (in my opinion), and usually lets you choose the way you act along the way, which alter the outcome.
Chapter 2 is more complicated, as you either playing the Roche's path or Iorweth's path (needless to say, both are entirely different episodes) - either way, there's 18 quests total (not counting the two returning ones, which actually should count). We have 2 returning quests on both sides +1 acquired in Ch 2, 3 mini-game quests as always, either 1 or 2 contracts, and a handful of other quests (5 on Roche's [one is fist-fighting with content and backstory, similarly to The Fight Club; one is a fetch quest - harpy feathers, which again enables you to earn some much-needed orens] side and 3 on the Iorweth' side - all proper sidequesting with story).
Chapter 3 was underserved after the launch, but CD Projekt RED released a free patch which added a lot of content, including more Ch 3 quests.
Vanilla game featured 9 side quests: 3 returning quests, 1 contract, 3 mini-game quests (armwrestling has a little spin - you can cheat) and 2 content quests.
Enhanced Edition introduces 1 quest for Iorweth's path and 3 quests for Roche's path (Crown Witness is a part of Lillies and Vipers). All content.
If you think about it, mini-game quests are a type of a progressive quests, but ok, I'll treat them as seperate.
17+(9+9)+6+(1+3)=45
45 quests, not counting the one that are progressive (51 if you count them). 9 (or 3 if you treat them as progressive, which they are actually) of them are mini-game quests. 6 of them are contract quests, but you won't experience this amount in a one playthrough, as either 1 or 2 are choice specific. 1 is a fetch quest. That's a total o 16 quests (or 10, if you treat mini-game quest as progressive) out of 45.
16 quests out of 51 quests if we count all progressives. (~31%)
10 out of 45 if we do not count the progressives. (22%)
This is the percentage of the side quests you claim to be dominating in the game.
Also yes, I realize "kill that monster over there" happens to fit Geralt's profession. That really doesn't change the basic nature of these quests, though.
Do you also realize that most quests in cRPG history has a basic nature of 'kill X' or 'bring X to Y'. It's all about the presentation of them, how fleshed out and meaningful they are - then we can safely say they are universally good. If there is no or extremely meek backstory to them, and meaninglessness then we can safely say they are plain bad.
Moreover, I want to add that the bulk of the game in TW2 is the main story. The side quests revolve around the main ones.
The bulk of the game in DA:I is side content (which I argue is meaningless and largely irrelevant to the main story); if we cut side activities and artificial power gating (which forces you to do those hopeless sidequests), one can finish the game in 10-12 hours.
I insist you respond to this, since you conveniently skipped that part:
Whereas in DA:I, all those fetch quest, shards collecting and whatnot - look, you are the leader of the Inquisition. Can't you send your people to do that? It's a minor thing for your minions, right? Or is bringing 10 elfroots to a peasant so crucial to the cause of stopping the demons and protecting Thedas? Come on, mate, answer with honesty.
Peace.
Peace.
my new favorite post! such an in-depth rebuttal
i own W2E, it had many complex systems keeping it afloat, sometimes it was a bit overwhelming...
DA:I on the other hand, as i've always said, is so full of filler content that you are swamped and the idea of role-playing is lost... granted you can just skip through and do the main story but that's counter-intuitive and really takes away from the experience (not that it's a grand one to begin with), too many empty feeling zones, despite the masses of collectibles and sidequests, i'm even getting tired of expressing my opinion at this point! since i don't think it changes anything
from the opinions on the forums it appears that the one thing people point out as source of their dissatisfaction with current quests is lack of cinematics when talking with the quest givers at the start and end of the quest.
(to Xralius) It's always nice to see someone wanting an entire company to go under and everybody losing their job because of decisions most of them had no influence or say over. Really charming.
(to Xralius) It's always nice to see someone wanting an entire company to go under and everybody losing their job because of decisions most of them had no influence or say over. Really charming.
this again... surely they were given a broad goalset to achieve and just went for it, and didn't have a shareholder looking over their shoulder saying do this do that, controlling every bit of code they wrote... it can't be that simple a thing to conclude that the devs were merely puppets being controlled by a master
I don't know if its the worst Bioware game ever, but it is much worse than DAO.
DAO offered:
- true RPG
- attributes, crafting, materials, make your own items or buy, sell and trade them
- no swearing
- romance and intamcy but done properly and not like DA:I
- interact with NPC's
- proper skill trees
- many armor sets
- not linear
- your choices did matter
- huge game
- excellent DLC's and expansion
- even longer with the DLC's and expansion
- very well thought out and written
- excellent storyline, plots and sub quests
- tactical view among other options
- worked fine with PC, keyboard and mouse
DA2 and DA:I are not these things and not what a true RPG is all about. DA2 and DA:I are linear, action games, simplified, and dumbed down but with excellent graphic to cover this all up and they both had a short main story with almost useless sub quests to help fill in time. Endings in both weren't that great either like DAO.
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