530 réponses à ce sujet

[JCFR]

Honestly, Bioware is so good (or use to be anyway) at putting out amazing RPG's that this game is still a 7 in my opinion, but they were constantly putting out 9's or higher in the past, so I guess I just expected more. 
 
The combat in this game is horrible. There is really no other way to put it. You can't go in depth with the behaviors of your companions, auto pause accomplishes nothing, tactical camera accomplishes nothing, and yet, despite the butchery of tactical combat, you still can't go all in and expect an amazing real time combative experience. The camera and movement just aren't set up to accommodate fast paced real time combat. It was like the developers decided to take the absolute worst characteristics of two different styles of combat and mash it all into a single, terrible combat system.

Agreed. The pacing lies somewhere inbetween 3rd-person Action-Rpg (like dark souls) and tactical party combat with no need to use tactics or even switch between party-members.
Even DA2 was bit better.
 

I enjoy games with great real time combat or games with great turn based, tactical combat (BG, DAO, etc) but this game has the worst traits from both styles of combat and none of the enjoyable traits.

Ah yes... those glorious days of the infinity-engine... back then i was so angry about it's flaws (like pathfinding) but nowadays it seems heads above.
Don't get me wrong, i liked DAO. It was a promising start of a new franchise with it's dark, mature presentation and ok combat-mechanics (not the best but for starters damn alright). But since then, the DA-series seems to be on the CoD-path into mainstream.

The role playing is pretty bad too honestly. It's not immersive other than a couple cut scenes, none of the choices you make have any bearing on the state of the game, and the dialogue is lack luster. Granted, the dialogue isn't terrible a lot of the time, but it's certainly nothing to praise.

Agreed once again. It's not horrible and the presentation keeps it up but it's certainly not the best it has ever been.

The other terribly annoying thing is how you have to do side quests to gain power, you can't just follow the main story line if you want to. Side quests are no longer optional and you're forced to grind areas for power. If I wanted a grind I'd go play an MMO. Bioware RPG's are supposed to be about role playing.

Yeah, this remembered me unpleasently on ME1. Back then all the sidequests were boring, stupid "go there and kill" or "go there and find" quests, but necessary for the XP. Those things only belong into MMOs.
And about this "power"-thing... i might have bought inot that, if you could actual do something with it. Yes, you need it to unlock some maps but after playing through the games 3 times, i always ended up with about 180-200 power... and nothing to use it for.
And the quests you get from your party-members could not be any more unepic. In it's whole it feels lame.

It really sucks to think about how all of the best games came out in the 90's and early 2000's and we'll probably never see anything like them again. Blizzard and Bioware use to rule the world of rpg's -- Blizz had the arpg market on lock down with the Diablos, and Bioware had the rpg market on lock down with the Baldur's Gate franchise, NWN was pretty good too (better than DAI for sure). The first Dragon Age showed amazing potential, but a couple of areas where they could afford to make improvements. Now? Well the first Dragon Age was easily the best of the three, and Bioware hasn't had a game like Baldur's Gate 2 since Baldur's Gate 2. Blizzard completely ruined Diablo, so I guess I should be thankful Bioware hasn't gone that far down hill.

 

You can thank mainstreaming about this.
In my opinion, all this started when microsoft decided to diverge from Pc-market and instead creating it's own console. I mean, the last game M$ published on the PC was (if i remember correctly) Age of Empire 3.
Since then the gaming market grew big - i heard it makes more money than hollywood now... but the variety in gaming went lost.
Most games today are sequels... and most of the time, they do the exact same thing as their predecessors (CoD, AC, BF), while other genres slowly disappear (like RTS, eventhough i liked games like C&C or Dune).
It feels like those things, that don't sell on consoles, go into extinction. None of the big publishers seems to dare something, only indies and crowd-funded projects show, that there's still some innovation in this market.

And now with the hesitantly transition of console-owners from XB360 to XBone... or PS3 to PS4, we're at a point where multi-plattform-titles are designed in a way, so none seem to be superior (explaining this 8-sklillslot-limitation on the PC-version of DAI) to make the most profit. We have to deal with DRM and online-constraint (even for SP-games).
It ain't nice but there's nothing to do, since i don't expect this to change in near future.

I honestly have to force myself to play this game. Back in the day I couldn't wait to play a Bioware game. Even the first Dragon Age had me completely fixated on the story, but this game is something I do every now and then when I'm bored.
 
GG EA, thanks for ruining one of the last great video game developers.

EA ain't the only black sheep int he flock. In their ways, they're not worse than activision or ubisoft... man, did i just defend EA? Jeeesh... things happen this year...
Anyway, what i wanted to express is: All the big Triple-A-publishers are following the big Mammon... and Mammon likes to milk fanboys and streamline products to make it mass-compatible. That's just how it is.

Objectivly, DAI is not necessary a bad game. It got high production values, great graphics, good soundtrack, good presentation and much content... it's just not what you and i might understand about and expect from a party-based-Rpg made by bioware.

[Elhanan]

I think it was at this point the OP reached self-parody.  Neverwinter Nights. seriously?  Boring, uninspiring combat on a boring, uninspiring setting with a boring, uninspiring plot populated by boring and uninispring characters.   Yes, Hordes of the Underdark was a decent, high level expansion, but even then it's severly limited simply by virtue of being an NWN expansion.

Though not a fan of the OC, the Toolkit, DM and Player Clients have kept NWN1 atop my favorites list due to mods, campaigns, and PW's.

@ scrutinizer - Was not aware I had asked someone for such a personal review, but since you were so kind as to make this public, I shall respond in kind. If you do not care for my posts; nor the cranky old man that writes them, pls feel free to add them to the Ignore list. You are now included on mine.

I include personal experiences to help validate my various opinions, and find myself in a current situation that allows for a lot of free time to play games and post on forums, esp those from Bioware. DAI has been a pleasure to play thus far, and I hopefully have many hours ahead with which to continue. Thank you for the kind and considerate thoughts and advise, as I find my new ailments and disabilities do not have a handbook, guidebook, or DM manual to aid me. Always great to see the empathetic reach out from the forums to offer such a thoughtful service.

And if you need aid getting off of that grand majestic steed, pls ask a mod. Beware jumping, as that first step is a doozy.

[Razir-Samus]

Though not a fan of the OC, the Toolkit, DM and Player Clients have kept NWN1 atop my favorites list due to mods, campaigns, and PW's.

@ scrutinizer - Was not aware I had asked someone for such a personal review, but since you were so kind as to make this public, I shall respond in kind. If you do not care for my posts; nor the cranky old man that writes them, pls feel free to add them to the Ignore list. You are now included on mine.

I include personal experiences to help validate my various opinions, and find myself in a current situation that allows for a lot of free time to play games and post on forums, esp those from Bioware. DAI has been a pleasure to play thus far, and I hopefully have many hours ahead with which to continue. Thank you for the kind and considerate thoughts and advise, as I find my new ailments and disabilities do not have a handbook, guidebook, or DM manual to aid me. Always great to see the empathetic reach out from the forums to offer such a thoughtful service.

And if you need aid getting off of that grand majestic steed, pls ask a mod. Beware jumping, as that first step is a doozy.

Flemeth - "Men's hearts hold shadows darker than any tainted creature."

 

sympathy and emphathy (especially on the internet) are hard to express when someones circumstances remain alien either through lack of knowledge or lack of first-hand experience

[Elhanan]

Flemeth - "Men's hearts hold shadows darker than any tainted creature."
 
sympathy and emphathy (especially on the internet) are hard to express when someones circumstances remain alien either through lack of knowledge or lack of first-hand experience

And general civil behavior suggests to refrain from berating those with such unknowns.

Folks do not like the idea that announced I have Cancer? Neither did I when the doctor told me that the lab made a correction. Already have something in common. Colorful past? Not from my POV; only the life of one indv that did several different things. Etc.

People that do not wish to read my posts are able to remove them from sight; it works for me. Now we have something else in common. Progress achieved....

[Razir-Samus]

And general civil behavior suggests to refrain from berating those with such unknowns.

Folks do not like the idea that announced I have Cancer? Neither did I when the doctor told me that the lab made a correction. Already have something in common. Colorful past? Not from my POV; only the life of one indv that did several different things. Etc.

People that do not wish to read my posts are able to remove them from sight; it works for me. Now we have something else in common. Progress achieved....

given the anonymous and faceless nature of the internet it's easy to let go of your principles and let impulse take over...

 

not entirely sure what 2 things we have in common here, can you elaborate?

[Elhanan]

given the anonymous and faceless nature of the internet it's easy to let go of your principles and let impulse take over...
 
not entirely sure what 2 things we have in common here, can you elaborate?

Not yourself; was ref to others that have made my Ignore list.

Back to the OT, for me DAI ranks higher than the NWN OC, DA2, ME2, KOTOR, and SWTOR, though I have enjoyed them all.

[Reymoose]

In response to the OP (again) and to make a general point, even if you *love* the myriad fetch quests and war table implementation of lore/questing, this is something you as a player/consumer shouldn't support, *even* if you like it. 

 

Why?

 

Since we've had posters post their history, I'll give a bit. I'm a developer (environment artist) on a medium-sized project, and we, like Bioware, work under a publisher.

 

The type of questing/gameplay that DA:I has implemented is by it's nature meant to be done quickly and within a very slim project timeline. Then, since you have such a streamlined workflow, instead of doing a 20-30-40 hour main story, or including more intensive quest lines, voice acting, etc. you can put in an edited 10-15 hour campaign with a LOT of filler to pad the time out.

 

This type of development is necessary for yearly releases. Ubisoft is, at the moment, the king of this in the AAA realm, but mobile is laden with it. On it's face, whether you like it or not, it is guarenteed to give you a diluted experience because for all the development 15 cut-and-paste fetch quests or 20 war table 'quests' took, you could have 1 or 2 very fleshed out areas. One is objectively better (for an single-player RPG at least) than the other.

 

 

OT, but I'll just link to this topic that I mostly agree with rather than repeat it:

 

http://forum.bioware...-dragon-age-mmo

[relesbao]

I liked the game, for me its the best rpg i played since FF7 and my first year of World of Warcraft, i am really hooked to the exploration, the game is beautiful, the npcs have a nice depth, that merchant that sells only a really expensive chest, man, what a character xD

For me the game is just missing a better tactics menu.

[scrutinizer]

@ scrutinizer - Was not aware I had asked someone for such a personal review, but since you were so kind as to make this public, I shall respond in kind. If you do not care for my posts; nor the cranky old man that writes them, pls feel free to add them to the Ignore list. You are now included on mine.

Well, I'm going to respond anyway, since etiquette (which you seem to be fond of, and yet ignore) dictates such behavior.

I do care for your posts, as I care for anyone else's. In yours, however, information relevant to the discussion is obscured by information irrelevant to the discussion. I observed you employ such strategy to strengthen your stance in a given discussion, but not on a content and argument level, but on an emotional one, which in my opinion is a cheap trick which nets attention as a bonus.

 

I include personal experiences to help validate my various opinions

Trust me, friend, they are not needed. No one asks for them. Etiquette suggests you keep them to yourself.

If anything, your ubiquitous personal experiences may be received as a means of dominating a discourse by implying authority that cannot be verified.

Besides, personal experiences are just that - personal. 

 

Thank you for the kind and considerate thoughts and advise, as I find my new ailments and disabilities do not have a handbook, guidebook, or DM manual to aid me. Always great to see the empathetic reach out from the forums to offer such a thoughtful service.

No need to assume the position of a down-trodden and burdened. You have enough attention. Don't need to paint me a villain; people have minds of their own.

[Talonfire]

I do agree with most of your points OP, but even so I wouldn't say that Inquisition is one of BioWare's worst RPGs. I can think of enough that I would rank a lot lower, those being Neverwinter Nights, Dragon Age II, The Old Republic, and Mass Effect 3, so I would place Inquisition somewhere in the middle between what I consider their best and worst productions. I think that Inquisition is a far cry from the quality BioWare used to deliver, but I also consider it a step up from what they've been releasing in the years since Mass Effect 2.

I think it was at this point the OP reached self-parody.  Neverwinter Nights. seriously?  Boring, uninspiring combat on a boring, uninspiring setting with a boring, uninspiring plot populated by boring and uninispring characters.   Yes, Hordes of the Underdark was a decent, high level expansion, but even then it's severly limited simply by virtue of being an NWN expansion.

I agree with your assessment of Neverwinter Nights, mostly anyway as I enjoyed the Forgotten Realms as portrayed in the CRPGs of that era, but the OP does have a right to think the way they do. I can understand why someone would like Neverwinter Nights a lot - especially if they were into the multiplayer scene, and some of the better user modules/campaigns out there, which were vastly superior experiences to the official campaign and Shadows of Undrentide.

[AlanC9]

The type of questing/gameplay that DA:I has implemented is by it's nature meant to be done quickly and within a very slim project timeline. Then, since you have such a streamlined workflow, instead of doing a 20-30-40 hour main story, or including more intensive quest lines, voice acting, etc. you can put in an edited 10-15 hour campaign with a LOT of filler to pad the time out.

This type of development is necessary for yearly releases. Ubisoft is, at the moment, the king of this in the AAA realm, but mobile is laden with it. On it's face, whether you like it or not, it is guarenteed to give you a diluted experience because for all the development 15 cut-and-paste fetch quests or 20 war table 'quests' took, you could have 1 or 2 very fleshed out areas. One is objectively better (for an single-player RPG at least) than the other.

So you're saying that DAI is actually a cheap game?

[AlanC9]

Trust me, friend, they are not needed. No one asks for them. Etiquette suggests you keep them to yourself.

When was that made a rule?

[scrutinizer]

When was that made a rule?

Oh, internet smart-ass nitpickers...

It's basic savoir vivre (look under the social communication chapter): you do not speak about your health as it may be uncomfortable for your interlocutor; you do not talk about yourself too much as it implies egocentrism; it is acceptable to reveal small bits of personal information when the situation is appropriate; you do not choose topics which may be boring for your interlocutor. 

But I doubt you even know what savoir vivre is.

Yeah, go google it and come back to tell me that you knew all along. But I guess living in a facebook age where you spill your guts all over the floor for other see has become the new archetype.

If Elhanan preaches civil behavior, he should be the first who adheres to its rules.

 

Peace.

[northsidelunatic]

I liked the game, for me its the best rpg i played since FF7 and my first year of World of Warcraft, i am really hooked to the exploration, the game is beautiful, the npcs have a nice depth, that merchant that sells only a really expensive chest, man, what a character xD

For me the game is just missing a better tactics menu.

last time I checked  FF7 had battle music   this game has none or buggy and fails to play

[otis0310]

I honestly feel bad for a generation of gamers where Skyrim is the best RPG they'll ever play.

I have seen so many say that Skyrim is a great game and that Ea should be commended for following them.  And it is true that Skyrim is a great game, hell it's a fantastic game.

 

But they seem to think that every RPG should be like that.

 

That is like saying Assassin's Creed should be made into a COD clone because they are both  action games. Since they both are both action games they fall under the same umbrella.   And if they fall under the same umbrella, they must play alike.

 

But there many TYPES of RPGs, just like there are many types of strategy games and action games.  Skyrim  is an action based RPG with a high emphasis on exploration.  Dragon Age is not.  Yes they do sit under the same umbrella but  they are two different types of games.

 

Assassins Creed fans would cry havoc if their franchise was transformed into a COD clone, and we are doing the same here. 

 

But for some reason a lot of people are missing out on that concept.

[AlanC9]

Oh, internet smart-ass nitpickers...

It's basic savoir vivre (look under the social communication chapter): you do not speak about your health as it may be uncomfortable for your interlocutor; you do not talk about yourself too much as it implies egocentrism; it is acceptable to reveal small bits of personal information when the situation is appropriate; you do not choose topics which may be boring for your interlocutor. 

But I doubt you even know what savoir vivre is.

 

Nope, I don't. There are very few French phrases that I find it useful to remember. A few relating to Napoleonic warfare for wargaming purposes, a couple of cooking phrases ... that's about it.

 

And Elhanan's original post struck me as a perfectly appropriate response to the OP's hysterical rant; how better to point out the absurdity of the post than with a example of something really bad? Everything else is just people engaging with Elhanan's post of their own volition, and he's not required to drop a subject if people keep engaging with it, is he? Or am I supposed to look that up for myself?

 

I'll cop to the "internet smart-ass nitpicker" thing too, for whatever that's worth.

[In Exile]

Oh, internet smart-ass nitpickers...
It's basic savoir vivre (look under the social communication chapter): you do not speak about your health as it may be uncomfortable for your interlocutor; you do not talk about yourself too much as it implies egocentrism; it is acceptable to reveal small bits of personal information when the situation is appropriate; you do not choose topics which may be boring for your interlocutor.
But I doubt you even know what savoir vivre is.
Yeah, go google it and come back to tell me that you knew all along. But I guess living in a facebook age where you spill your guts all over the floor for other see has become the new archetype.
If Elhanan preaches civil behavior, he should be the first who adheres to its rules.

Peace.

This sort of high society civil etiquette rule is (1) pretty specific to a culture (2) pretty specific to a social economic status and (3) a terrible rule that we should get rid of anyway.

[GavrielKay]

Skyrim  is an action based RPG with a high emphasis on exploration.

 

 

Skyrim is also a true open world.  And crafting in that game blends better with loot.  And you have tons of storage and display cases for all of the interesting stuff you find.  And you have healing magic, unlimited potions, true first person combat, access to all of your abilities, more interesting and varied sub-plots etc...  Even if they were trying to emulate Skyrim they failed mightily.

 

I'm not sure they were trying to do that, but the weird blend of open world/closed world, first person/third person combat, limited skills, limited healing etc just took the worst of the DA series and ES series and made it into a bizarre new game.

[scrutinizer]

how better to point out the absurdity of the post than with a example of something really bad?

With cold, hard facts in a perfectly neutral tone. It drives people insane.

Anyways, sorry for being offensive. Just seen too many instances of forum members undermining everything that is being said by others, while all  that's needed for better understanding is, as always, a bit of knowledge.

 

This sort of high society civil etiquette rule is (1) pretty specific to a culture (2) pretty specific to a social economic status and (3) a terrible rule that we should get rid of anyway.

Funny. In the first half of the 20th century this 'high society civil etiquette rule' was commonplace and did not signify status at all. It was welcome from everyone. I believe our society has become more unsophisticated, but that's a subject for a different discussion.

As for the points; (1) no (2) no (3) if you consider divulging personal information (on the internets at that!), secrets even, to a random stranger (on the internet forum with thousand of members at that!) you do not know at all as normal behavior and it's perfectly ok, then we have a disagreement. I do not need to know anything about you all while discussing the game (veered off topic a bit, I know). No offence, but to me you people are just strings of digital letters which form words, sentences... I do not want to hear your problems, same as I don't want to hear any personal problems from a guy from Gaborone I'm never gonna meet.

 

Peace.

[Elhanan]

Skyrim is also a true open world.  And crafting in that game blends better with loot.  And you have tons of storage and display cases for all of the interesting stuff you find.  And you have healing magic, unlimited potions, true first person combat, access to all of your abilities, more interesting and varied sub-plots etc...  Even if they were trying to emulate Skyrim they failed mightily.
 
I'm not sure they were trying to do that, but the weird blend of open world/closed world, first person/third person combat, limited skills, limited healing etc just took the worst of the DA series and ES series and made it into a bizarre new game.

Actually, DAI is close to Skyrim in some areas.

With the various maps, while most are only the size of Solstheim, a few are comparable with Skyrim proper. Both Crafting schools tends towards selecting the best materials (might be great if one could better mix and select the look with the materials of choice). And DAI also has healing magic in both potions and spells. Those are facts.

And while I also long for storage and greater access to Attributes, I personally prefer DAI stories, limited potions, 3rd person combat, Difficulty factors, and other mechanics. But that is only another opinion; not worth more than others, but not worth less either.

[Reymoose]

So you're saying that DAI is actually a cheap game?

 

Ya, of course, it is from a design point of view. I mean, I hope it's clear that a lot more work went into say, 'Wicked Hearts' or the companion quests than anything on the war table or the shards or any side-fetch quest. I doubt anyone can argue that.

 

The point is, by filling up the 'content' of the game, as in what choices the player has, by easily repeatable gameplay that you can cut and paste from one zone to the next, that doesn't deviate in gameplay terms you're essentially creating an atmosphere development-wise to *avoid* putting resources in unique content in favor of assets that are modular.

 

This is an important point, because you could argue without much debate, that Bioware could have (and should have from experience) left many of the 'filler' quests that, by simply changing text, or enemy type or even requisitions for example, they could have left these on the cutting floor, given you a fully fleshed out zone story or incorporated many war table missions as playable setpieces without anyone saying "I wish I could wander more of the Hinterlands and find 4 more mage caches."

[Elhanan]

Ya, of course, it is from a design point of view. I mean, I hope it's clear that a lot more work went into say, 'Wicked Hearts' or the companion quests than anything on the war table or the shards or any side-fetch quest. I doubt anyone can argue that.
 
The point is, by filling up the 'content' of the game, as in what choices the player has, by easily repeatable gameplay that you can cut and paste from one zone to the next, that doesn't deviate in gameplay terms you're essentially creating an atmosphere development-wise to *avoid* putting resources in unique content in favor of assets that are modular.
 
This is an important point, because you could argue without much debate, that Bioware could have (and should have from experience) left many of the 'filler' quests that, by simply changing text, or enemy type or even requisitions for example, they could have left these on the cutting floor, given you a fully fleshed out zone story or incorporated many war table missions as playable setpieces without anyone saying "I wish I could wander more of the Hinterlands and find 4 more mage caches."

Actually, I prefer the option to select quests vs Codex bonuses, Kill XP, and other ways to gather XP. One is not forced into gaining experience in one direction, but has several choices in which way to pursue that goal. This is likely one reason I have not had to grind mobs, as there were plenty of other options opened to me.

[Reymoose]

Actually, I prefer the option to select quests vs Codex bonuses, Kill XP, and other ways to gather XP. One is not forced into gaining experience in one direction, but has several choices in which way to pursue that goal. This is likely one reason I have not had to grind mobs, as there were plenty of other options opened to me.

 

Are you trolling? I didn't mention any of those things, I was talking about modular content vs. unique setpiece content that shortens development time.

 

But I'll bite. What you're experiencing is common to MMO design, with multiple people in the same world/zone/area in mind. The reason you believe you like to have several choices is because in an MMO setting the one of two choices that may be available in a single player game you would have to compete with other players in a multiplayer setting.

 

In short, you would not have to grind mobs at all, nor be forced into gaining experience in one direction or any if the content was delivered in a way that it did not NEED to be repeated, not by the player, but by being unique content in the game.

 

Now if you are the type of person who advocates a Ubisoft or Activision style of development, I don't know what to say to you, because time and time again, modular content so far has only had one outcome.

[DaemionMoadrin]

Reymoose & scrutinizer, I like and agree with your posts in this thread a lot. For different reasons, obviously.

 

I have nothing to add thanks to you. ^^

[Elhanan]

Are you trolling? I didn't mention any of those things, I was talking about modular content vs. unique setpiece content that shortens development time.
 
But I'll bite. What you're experiencing is common to MMO design, with multiple people in the same world/zone/area in mind. The reason you believe you like to have several choices is because in an MMO setting the one of two choices that may be available in a single player game you would have to compete with other players in a multiplayer setting.
 
In short, you would not have to grind mobs at all, nor be forced into gaining experience in one direction or any if the content was delivered in a way that it did not NEED to be repeated, not by the player, but by being unique content in the game.
 
Now if you are the type of person who advocates a Ubisoft or Activision style of development, I don't know what to say to you, because time and time again, modular content so far has only had one outcome.

Just responding to the notion of leaving quests on the cutting room floor, esp when I use a mod in Skyrim that places them in again. And I have not needed to grind, farm, or perform other tedious MMO tasks because there have been other options in which to grow.

And as I have not played a Ubisoft or Activision game to my knowledge; simply stick to cRPG's as a rule.