176 réponses à ce sujet

[Vilegrim]

Hawke as a SECOND choice? Okay, now THIS makes no sense. I believe the majority of people here, regardless of whether or not they think the Hero is a good pick, agree that Hawke makes the most sense. Hawke is actually INVOLVED in this issue, whereas the Hero of Ferelden has nothing to do with it. Hawke has become a symbol of the mage rebellion, for better or for worse, and THAT is the kind of person best suited to help end the conflict, IMO.

That is why he would be second, imo because he is a symbol, because he is a known supporter of one side or the other, because he aided the guy who started it all with a bombing, immediatly the side he did not support is going to distrust him, probably outright hate him, that is really not the guy you want trying to bring a peaceful solution, if anything it ensures that one side or the other will attack the inquisition straight out the gate, and risks spreading the war to regarding the entire chantry as targets.

It is as crazy as Tony Blair middle east peace envoy.

[Dermain]

This, exactly [and before "HoF would have died at Cory's hand"--yes, we know that now, but Cass and Lel didn't know that at the time. In hindsight, it's good the Warden wasn't around].

Proven track record with dealing with mages and abominations at Kinloch Hold (saving Cullen's life in the process, as a side note), and also killing the Archdemon (who was not "just a dragon", to answer up the thread a bit, but also the vessel of an Old God)--and, if they didn't sacrifice, being the only Warden in five Blights to have survived doing so. On top of that, they picked the dwarf king and settled the matter of the Ferelden throne, ending a Civil War (and have a decent chance of also being a political animal, if a Cousland--and/or Queen or king-consort themselves). They managed to get the Dalish to join in (or, alternatively, bring on freaking werewolves!). They may have also managed to get the Legion of the Dead to the surface for the first time in a very long time. On top of that, they are the Commander of the Grey in Ferelden, as well as the Arl/essa of Amaranthine. So, proven political track record. If the HoF romanced Zev and stayed a Warden, s/he also has connections to the Crows (and may, in fact, have acted with Zev as a leader in the Crows for a short time). And, of course, s/he was assisted by the notorious Witch of the Wilds (which Cass did know--even if Lel wasn't a part of DA:O, cf:

 

Cass: You expect me to believe Flemeth helped him/her [Hawke]?

Varric: Come on Seeker, do I need to recite the Tale of the Warden?

They found the Ashes, and the Temple. Ended an Undead threat in Redcliffe against all odds. Saved Eamon--and may have saved Connor and Isolde as well. And may have dealt with a bunch of undead at Warden's Keep.

They know how to deal with mages and the demonic forces that accompany them. And Alistair is also an ex-almost-Templar.

In contrast, Hawke made a bit of money, bought a house, ended a war with the Arishok and was partly responsible for the chaos in Kirkwall. And freed Corypheus. And irritated Orlais by killing Prosper de Montfort. And needed Cullen to step in to help save them (and thus the Circle of Life is closed, with the HoF ultimately being the reason Hawke's life was saved there )

The real question is, why did they bother asking for Hawke?

 

I'm just going to point out (again) that Hawke should not have the blame for freeing Corypheus.

 

That blame lies entirely with Janeka. "But why her" you may ask. Well it's simple really. 

 

Janeka is the one who had the carta track down and attack Hawke with the intention of drawing Hawke to Corypheus' prison. After Hawke meets Janeka she explains that Hawke's blood is required to free Corypheus so that she could bind him to end the blights. This becomes apparent if Hawke sides with Janeka both times, and Janeka attempts and fails to bind Corypheus to her will. 

 

If Hawke sides with Larius ends up releasing Corypheus in order to kill him. Which would have worked had either of the Grey Wardens had died, and to an extent Anders dead/not present. 

 

Because the Hero of Ferelden ended two civil wars and managed to get six disparate factions to work in unison and end a Blight in less than a year. As a Warden-Ensign. With only three other Wardens in the country.

 

That's why Cassandra had the Hero of Ferelden tapped for the Inquisitor first. He (or she) is a natural leader and has supernatural determination and willpower. Just the type of person capable of forcing the Templars and Mages into a compromise.

 

Hmm...

 

That sounds a lot like a Mary Sue... 

[Former_Fiend]

That whole conversation makes Cass look like a tool. She's mad at Varric for not wanting to protect one of his dearest friends from her Lunacy. Look at how she had treated him. Plus... chantry! I'd hide my friend from her as best as I could. Why couldn't Cass lead? Really they just wanted a name to shove in front of their cause. It's only what it is because you lead it. But before that, what it could have been is questionable. It seems like a good cause but who knows. Really they just wanted a hero to stick front and center to accomplish their mission and given everyone but Jose was connected to the chantry is was pretty close to starting a holy war which is what is said in one of the dialogue choices. Sure, it's fluffed over and you can dismiss every chantry element if you choose. But it could have been exactly what the seekers were or had become and with a figurehead to give them more credibility just in case. They use your mark for credibility. That's kind of the whole thing that is happening through the game. Luckily you are in charge and hopeful have made some decent choices but really it's not more than starting a new inquisition because the first failed as if this one could do any better.

 

To be perfectly fair, after Varric leaves, Cassandra admits that the real reason she's so angry isn't that Varric hid Hawke from her and Leliana. She's angry because she believed him when he said he didn't know where Hawke was. Cassandra holds herself to a high standard and is very hard on herself when she doesn't believe she's lived up to that standard. She had a job; interrogate Varric and find the truth. She failed, and is taking her anger over her failure out on Varric.

 

That being said, Cassandra's high level of self criticism also gives her a good sense of self evaluation; she doesn't lead because she's not a leader and she knows that. 

[Wulfram]

That being said, Cassandra's high level of self criticism also gives her a good sense of self evaluation; she doesn't lead because she's not a leader and she knows that. 

 

Except she's apparently enough of a leader to be Divine

[Vilegrim]

 

Hmm...

 

That sounds a lot like a Mary Sue... 

 

 

or a decent character, unlike the failure hawke.

[Former_Fiend]

Except she's apparently enough of a leader to be Divine

 

Yea, but a whole lot of people had to die before she was considered as an option. Even she doesn't consider herself a good option, just better than the alternatives.

[Dermain]

or a decent character, unlike the failure hawke.

 

So the only decent characters are Mary Sues...you must love Fiona then... 

 

Yea, but a whole lot of people had to die before she was considered as an option. Even she doesn't consider herself a good option, just better than the alternatives.

 

I don't know if she really believes that she's better since she can be talked out of it. 

 

Then again, so can Leliana (and she became Divine anyways since I didn't officially support anyone).

[Former_Fiend]

So the only decent characters are Mary Sues...you must love Fiona then... 

 

 

I don't know if she really believes that she's better since she can be talked out of it. 

 

Then again, so can Leliana (and she became Divine anyways since I didn't officially support anyone).

 

She does think she's a better choice than Leliana, who she believes to be too naive in regards to what changes will and won't be possible. And the general consensus from her, Leliana, and Cullen seems to be that all the Grand Clerics who weren't at the conclave would be absolutely terrible Divines. 

[dsl08002]

I guess it was a combination make sure that the warden is still a important character worthy of leading the inquisition instead of pretend that the warden never existed. Also a way to wrap up and make the ending of DA2 make sense.

But to be honest warden or Hawke for that matter could have jumped straight in as the role of inquisitor and done good. with no difference.

Bioware could have said with a simple explanation that the warden is immune to corypheus mind control when the sole of the archdemon transferred through the warden sole thereby leaving a immunity gift. or they could have said that something happened in the fade.
Usually Bioware uses simple explanations and it works

[Gamyu]

Warden as Inquisitor? Why not? Probably get a longer Main plot with the extra main quest to find that cure to the Calling so s/he can fight Cory.

Hmm...that does sound kinda interesting...

[Dermain]

I guess it was a combination make sure that the warden is still a important character worthy of leading the inquisition instead of pretend that the warden never existed. Also a way to wrap up and make the ending of DA2 make sense.

But to be honest warden or Hawke for that matter could have jumped straight in as the role of inquisitor and done good. with no difference.

Bioware could have said with a simple explanation that the warden is immune to corypheus mind control when the sole of the archdemon transferred through the warden sole thereby leaving a immunity gift. or they could have said that something happened in the fade.
Usually Bioware uses simple explanations and it works

 

Both of those would be horrible explanations for why the Warden is so "super-special". 

 

People have issues with side characters being "super special", but the moment it's the main character it's like they have blinders on.

 

Sure, you loved the Warden, but as that one Disney film sings Let it go!

[Former_Fiend]

I'll admit I'm far, far more forgiving of creator's pet/mary-sue/overpowered/whatever traits in player characters - especially customizable player characters  - than I am in side characters, but personally I really liked the fact that at the end of the day, even if the HoF could have handled the Mage/Templar situation as well as the Herald did, and the Orlesian Civil War as well as the Herald did, that against Corypheus directly, they would have been completely useless. 

[Gamyu]

I'll admit I'm far, far more forgiving of creator's pet/mary-sue/overpowered/whatever traits in player characters - especially customizable player characters  - than I am in side characters, but personally I really liked the fact that at the end of the day, even if the HoF could have handled the Mage/Templar situation as well as the Herald did, and the Orlesian Civil War as well as the Herald did, that against Corypheus directly, they would have been completely useless.

Well, HoF is on the quest to find the cure for the Calling. Make that a part of the main quest, since the mains quests/plot is kinda short. Would be nice to know more about this cure anyway.

[dsl08002]

Both of those would be horrible explanations for why the Warden is so "super-special". 
 
People have issues with side characters being "super special", but the moment it's the main character it's like they have blinders on.
 
Sure, you loved the Warden, but as that one Disney film sings Let it go!

Did you even read what i wrote?

It is not so big difference from the inquisiter, or hawke that matter. And as the that one in dragon age game sing im the one!

[robertthebard]

Hawke as a SECOND choice? Okay, now THIS makes no sense. I believe the majority of people here, regardless of whether or not they think the Hero is a good pick, agree that Hawke makes the most sense. Hawke is actually INVOLVED in this issue, whereas the Hero of Ferelden has nothing to do with it. Hawke has become a symbol of the mage rebellion, for better or for worse, and THAT is the kind of person best suited to help end the conflict, IMO.

It's funny, because from my PoV, Hawke is the last one you'd want, depending on which side of the conflict they ultimately came down on. Especially considering the possible outcomes for Anders. A Hawke that supported mages, and let Anders live? Not the best person to lead the Inquisition, as it would make recruiting harder. That choice would have to be retconned, which isn't an issue for me, since I kill him every time, but some people didn't. HoF can be dead, which leaves us with the Orlesian Warden, and as someone else pointed out; retconning US would be bad, and giving us the Orlesian Warden isn't much better than what we got.

This, on top of "Hey, I forgot all the skills I learned prior to this game" coupled with the complete revamp of Magic would make for even more "I really hate Hawke/what they did to my HoF" threads. We're better off with them doing what they did. It's also more consistent for how the series has been running; new game, new protagonist. Then all the standard fare of "Hey, my Warden didn't sound like that/would have never done that/wouldn't have supported that/wouldn't have been at the Conclave etc etc". There have already been threads that indicate that Hawke was "misrepresented", so it's not as far fetched as some would wish.

[robertthebard]

Oh, I'm not saying that Hawke should have been the Inquisitor as in the main character of this game, but who should have been the original Inquisitor. At least, I believe Hawke, while perhaps not the best choice, would have been a better choice than the Hero of Ferelden since Hawke has essentially become an embodiment of the mage rebellion, for better or for worse. That and the fact that the Hero of Ferelden has nothing to do with it. I'm sure there are other "heroes" and whatnot. People with amazing abilities who have done great things, and the Hero of Ferelden just seems sort of random to me, plot-wise.

I believe that Leliana and Cass were hoping to do just that, initially. Hence the ending in DA 2. I do think that maybe Varric was right though, if Hawke had been at the Conclave, they'd be dead, along with everyone else.

[Vilegrim]

I corrected myself and said that's it's not true.
However, I disagree with that last part. They needed an Inquisitor so that they could stop the fighting. Not through force, as is suggested by Cassandra's conversation with Varric. In which case, it DOES matter what other people think. If no one respects the Inquisitor, and the Inquisition tries to end things through diplomatic means, then there's no way in hell that anyone will listen.

I corrected myself and said that's it's not true.
However, I disagree with that last part. They needed an Inquisitor so that they could stop the fighting. Not through force, as is suggested by Cassandra's conversation with Varric. In which case, it DOES matter what other people think. If no one respects the Inquisitor, and the Inquisition tries to end things through diplomatic means, then there's no way in hell that anyone will listen.

Same problem they had with the herald, with a better startibg position, with at least some people not considering the HoF a nobody