386 réponses à ce sujet

[Lady Artifice]

Dorian's mission is the worst thing ever though, fact.

 

Even I could feel the agenda being shoved down the beginning of my digestive system.

 

(Try control + f-ing that, dave)

 

Are you joking?

 

I'm in earnest. Is this post a joke?

[KaiserShep]

Dorian's mission is the worst thing ever though, fact.

 

Even I could feel the agenda being shoved down the beginning of my digestive system.

 

(Try control + f-ing that, dave)

 

 

Yeah, there's nothing more insidious than seeking acceptance.

[Fairly Foxy]

Are you joking?

 

I'm in earnest. Is this post a joke?

 

 Best not poke it, dear. 

[Sir DeLoria]

Jesus, how many of these threads are there every week?

Thedas isn't supposed to be a copy of Medieval Europe with monsters and magic, there's countless differences ranging from hygiene to women's rights but of course people always nitpick homosexuality.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

Note that the person who created the thread has 1 post.

 

I think this one might have been a successful troll attempt.

 

Even if I'm wrong, I'm pretty much going to ignore this, as I'm fairly sure that the various excuses for masking "I don't want my video games to acknowledge homosexuality" are impenetrable to logic, reason, and reality.

[Lady Artifice]

Please, let the heterosexuals discuss what a homosexual relationship should be like.

 

 

I don't know if this is directed at anyone specific, or just any heterosexuals discussing this in general, but I (as one example of heterosexual with an opinion on this) want to apologize if I seem presumptuous. The only reason I love discussing Dorian so much is because I'm a big fan of his, not because I think I have some special insight into homosexual relationships. 

[Ponku]

She has been dropping out-of-universe and talking about how we, the real world, (or more accurately they, the writers) are handling subjects unevenly.

 

The gender dynamic at hand is how the devs handled a subject (arranged marriage) when pushed on a man (Dorian, and it was a Really Bad Thing) versus a woman (Anora, where it was a narrative non-issue). The conclusion, through a gender-based frame of reference, will note that dramatic tools and audience sympathy were clearly intended to support the male... but pretty much non-existent for the female.

 

I don't think that's the best frame of reference to use here- you could also look at it through a lens of homosexuality (arranged marriage is bad for homosexual in Dragon Age, non-controversial for heterosexual), a consent-based frame of reference (arranged marriage is bad if you're against it, but uncontroversial if you're willing), or a character-centric frame of reference (Dorian was personally against it, Anora was ambivalent). But that sort of gender-based analysis is something plenty of people use when evaluating fiction or the real world.

 

(I don't subscribe to that model of thinking, but it is common enough and influential enough that I consider it worth having a handle on that sort of frame of reference.)

Exactly, that why she was totally wrong to use their cases as a example of different treating of men and women by writers. That Dorian's issue got more attention because he is male, which is so untrue that it hurts. Dorian's issue got more attention in game, because it wasn't only against his will, but also against his nature. The differences were there, because there were all different issues and how they were handled had absolutely nothing to do with anyones gender. 

That was very wrong approach to an issue, that discredited the whole disscussion and should not be encouraged. If anyone approach a serious issue, do it correctly with enough facts and evidence. Otherwise they discredit their own issue and other issues that are caught in the crossfire.

[Rannik]

[Medhia_Nox]

@Rubious:  Yes, I agree... the eugenic-agenda is plaguing our nations. 

 

I cannot stand when people push their pure-blooded mentality of producing supreme mages through the use of breeding programs onto my totally mutt bred lifestyle. 

 

Mutt now... mutt forever! 

 

It makes perfect sense for Tevinter to consider homosexuals deviants.  Their entire culture is based on eugenics.  For the people saying: "Well Dorian could just breed and then have a male lover."  That's repugnant and you should check your morality.  That you just used a woman for a baby receptacle is bad enough, that you just bred a child for the sake of Tevinter politicking is my real issue. 

 

That Dorian is gay is actually rather superfluous to the entire discussion - had he wanted to be celibate for any reason, or simply had no interest in having children, the problem would have remained. 

[TeraBat]

 

It makes perfect sense for Tevinter to consider homosexuals deviants.  Their entire culture is based on eugenics.  For the people saying: "Well Dorian could just breed and then have a male lover."  That's repugnant and you should check your morality.  That you just used a woman for a baby receptacle is bad enough, that you just bred a child for the sake of Tevinter politicking is my real issue. 

 

 

And, you know, props to Dorian for realizing this; and then for deciding he's not going to treat someone else that way. There's an undercurrent of 'I don't want my wife to be miserable because she's married to me,' in how he describes his resistance to entering into the arranged marriage. And I appreciated his sense of compassion in that regard. 

 

I think the kids issue is perhaps why Dorian is so invested in making Tevinter better. In his own way, he's just as concerned with his legacy as his father is. But Dorian isn't willing to make the compromises necessary to have his own children - so instead he channels his desire for a legacy into effecting lasting change for his homeland. 

 

And that, OP, is how gay people can have a positive effect on their homes without having children. 

[OHB MajorV]

Also, is there any hard and fast rule for "what a homosexual relationship should be like?" Maybe, I don't get it because I'm straight but it seems to me that relationships generally have the same lowest common denominators of expectations: love, commitment, etc. regardless of their orientation. Beyond that, isn't it largely just personal taste in partners anyway?

Whoa whoa whoa, all this common sense in one post may be a bit overboard. I mean breaking it down to the basic fundamental desires of the human heart doesn't make anyone feel like a special snowflake and that simply will not do.

[EmissaryofLies]

Definitely a troll; the ideas presented are absolutely ridiculous, especially in a fantasy setting.

[TeraBat]

This thread reminds me why I have no interest in this forum anymore.

 

In response to the topic: It's a good idea, but it will never happen because Bioware has no interest, and in fact a vested interest in NOT, questioning the validity of the homosexual lifestyle*.

 

*Homosexual lifestyle refers to engaging in recreational sex that happens to be with members of the same sex, as opposed to procreational sex. There have been homosexuals who engaged in procreational sex for the sake of the family line/kingdom/whatever, and this isn't referring to that.

 

Except they did question it, and the answer they came up with was 'Yep. Valid.' 

[TeraBat]

Just curious--where did they question it?

 

In the writer's room. 

 

"Hey, should we include this same-sex relationship in our new game, or would that be going too far?"

 

<pause for thought>

 

"I can't think of a good reason not to. Let's do it!"

[OHB MajorV]

In the writer's room.

"Hey, should we include this same-sex relationship in our new game, or would that be going too far?"

<pause for thought>

"I can't think of a good reason not to. Let's do it!"

I'm not sure you're at this level of OG, but it's pretty close.

[TeraBat]

What you're saying has absolutely no bearing on my comment. Relationship =/= lifestyle. Further, a failing of my initial post--I should have specified that I meant within the confines of the game universe, as the OP mentioned.

 

I can think of only one instance in the entire DAverse in which your character has the opportunity to engage in procreational sex (Morrigan called, she's waiting in the arl's room with the blindfold and sex magic candles). Other than that one instance, it's pretty well implied that the sex you have with your LIs is recreational (otherwise life might get tough for a female Warden in a straight romance near the end of the year you spend fighting the Blight. Talk about unrealistic! It was horribly irresponsible for Alistair to bang the Warden before discussing birth control options). 

[daveliam]

I can think of only one instance in the entire DAverse in which your character has the opportunity to engage in procreational sex (Morrigan called, she's waiting in the arl's room with the blindfold and sex magic candles). Other than that one instance, it's pretty well implied that the sex you have with your LIs is recreational (otherwise life might get tough for a female Warden in a straight romance near the end of the year you spend fighting the Blight. Talk about unrealistic! It was horribly irresponsible for Alistair to bang the Warden before discussing birth control options). 

 

There's also the opportunity for the male Aeducan Warden to sleep with Mardy, the noble hunter, in Orzammar to produce an heir.

 

But, yeah, otherwise, all of the sex is 'recreational'.  Odd how only some of that  is okay, but not others. 

[(Disgusted noise.)]

A "lifestyle" still isn't being described. That's what the OP was referring to, not a single event, and that's the crux of the difference between homosexuality and heterosexuality (that I referred to at the end of my initial post).

So an infertile person can no longer be heterosexual?

[TeraBat]

There's also the opportunity for the male Aeducan Warden to sleep with Mardy, the noble hunter, in Orzammar to produce an heir.

 

But, yeah, otherwise, all of the sex is 'recreational'.  Odd how only some of that  is okay, but not others. 

 

You are correct! I played a female Aeducan noble (because I wanted to angst about Gorim), so I forgot about that. 

 

So: there are *two* instances in the DAverse in which you can engage in procreational sex. 

 

There are also many, many instances in which you can engage in sex which is either implied to be recreational, or outright stated as such (your first hookups with Zevran and Isabella are pretty much 'let's have fun getting nekkid', and the emotional commitment only comes later. Not to mention any shenanigans you wish to get up to in either the Pearl or the Blooming Rose).