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Homosexuality in Dragon Age


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#351
Colonelkillabee

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Why does anyone need to show you how to be a man? It's more about being a decent human being in general and most gay people I've met are equally as qualified to help teach that as any straight person. Society doesn't get to define if I'm a man or not, that's for the people who are close to me to decide.


My mother can teach me how to be a decent human being, and she has. She can't tell me much of anything when it comes to being a man. Do I "need to be told" no, but my father's input surely helped.

Anyway, we're not going to agree. I accept that you don't see things my way, but even I wouldn't call homosexual parenting "irrelevant", so I don't see how anyone could think the opposite is true either. Though the original point was simply conception, that still comes with it.

And that's my final comment on it.

#352
Rannik

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Not so stubborn after all.

 

** drops mic **



#353
Lady Artifice

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We could always go back to discussing why Dorian is the worst gay character Bioware has written so far.

 

I greatly disapprove. 

 

:(

 

See? Frowny face.

 

Now you've done it. All my woman-feelings just pouring all over the place.



#354
Colonelkillabee

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Not so stubborn after all.
 
** drops mic **


Get me in a conversation that's actually on topic and see if you say the same ;) It's also easy to drop a conversation when nothing considerable was presented in your opposition ;)

#355
Jeremiah12LGeek

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I almost miss the arguments over who was a Nazi for which ME 3 ending they chose.


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#356
KaiserShep

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Because I'm literally you if you fucked your best friend.

 

And yes, it is as awesome as it sounds, the privilege is real.

 

I...

 

JkcLcTP.jpg


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#357
OHB MajorV

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Get me in a conversation that's actually on topic and see if you say the same ;) It's also easy to drop a conversation when nothing considerable was presented in your opposition ;)

What exactly is "being a man"? I mean my father wasn't really around and the lessons he did teach weren't exactly the kind I'll pass on to my children so I'm curious as to what I'm missing that was bestowed upon you?

I mean I did end up with one wife, 3 well adjusted children (same mother), the ability to drive a car, shoot a gun, fight if I have to, cut my own steak and trim my own beard.

So what super secret bonus knowledge was bestowed upon you that only a heterosexual male father figure can pass on?
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#358
Gaesesagai

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LOL do people really buy into this wishful thinking bullshit?

 

Science will never replace traditional procreation, because no matter who you are, children need their mother and father. Even a girl needs her father, even a boy needs his mother, and so on and so on. There are things a gay couple just can't teach their children. How's a gay male couple going to tell their heterosexual son about women? How to deal with them, and so on?

 

I'm not saying that gay couples are bad. An orphan should thank God they have someone that will love them and take care of them. But nothing can "replace" the combination of a mother and father. Certainly can't make it "irrelevant", unless people don't give a damn about child development anymore, and children look to their parents as an example for everything.

 

Yeah you are precicely saying "gay couples are less" or insuficient or whatever. It's so offensive, ignorant and downright unintelligent it's really not worth bothering other then pointing it out.

 

Before spouting nonsense like this, better read up on "science-y stuff" (a term I believe is adequate in this case) about what a child needs from his/her parents in order to have a good emotional and intelectual developement, and about the competence and adequacy of gay parents. Things based on facts, not hateful and ignorant stupidity, and backed up by scientific community as opposed to illiterate bigots.

 

At this point this thread should really be closed. Seeing this level of homophobic crap is really not something I expected or enjoy. If someone wants to see absurd messages like that one, they can go on plenty of sites owned by hateful groups crying out hystericaly about how gay couples ruin kids and how kids need a mommy and daddy or are otherwise doomed to become whatever.

 

Ugh. Just ugh.


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#359
KaiserShep

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So what super secret bonus knowledge was bestowed upon you that only a heterosexual male father figure can pass on?

 

I was going to say driving your enemies before you and hearing the lamentation of their women, but I'm pretty sure Alexander the Great did something like that at some point.



#360
Colonelkillabee

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Pretty sure I just said I was done. If you want to whine at me some more, PM me. There's nothing homophobic in what I said, I simply said that there's benefits to heterosexual relationships that make normal conception NOT irrelevant, which actually applies to all relationships too, since a heterosexual couple can have need for artificial insemination.

Never said homosexual relationships had no benefits. Simply that they couldn't perfectly mimic ours. If you think that makes me afraid of gays or hateful or ignorant, then tough ****, I don't give a crap really. You can say what you want about my comments, but you can't call me homophobic for believing heterosexual relationships still have their place of relevancy very much in our society.

#361
OHB MajorV

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I was going to say driving your enemies before you and hearing the lamentation of their women, but I'm pretty sure Alexander the Great did something like that at some point.


Alexander, Not a strictly heterosexual man who was one of the best generals in history, think he passed any good lessons to his kids or did his affection of men not allow him such privelage?

#362
ComedicSociopathy

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This thread has become hilarious. :lol:

 

It's like watching a chicken with its head chopped off. Just flailing around with neither direction or purpose. It needs to put out of its misery.That would be the humane thing to do. 


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#363
Lady Artifice

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This thread has become hilarious. :lol:

 

It's like watching a chicken with its head chopped off. Just flailing around with neither direction or purpose. It needs to put out of its misery.That would be the humane thing to do. 

 

 

It's not pretty. 

 

If I were to try to imagine a thread with as little usefulness as possible...



#364
Not a Cat Doll

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This thread has become hilarious. :lol:

 

It's like watching a chicken with its head chopped off. Just flailing around with neither direction or purpose. It needs to put out of its misery.That would be the humane thing to do. 

Given the quality of the opening post, I really didn't think this thread could get any dumber, and yet, here we are. :wizard:



#365
TeraBat

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We could always go back to discussing why Dorian is the worst gay character Bioware has written so far.

 

I think a lot of people who criticize Dorian's character arc are missing a lot of subtlety to his story. 

 

Dorian doesn't want to be forced into a hetero marriage, but you can tell that part of his motivation is a strong sense of compassion for his potential wife. He knows that a woman being married to a gay man is not going to have even a hope for a happy marriage, and is going to be reduced to status of Brood Mare For the Glory of Tevinter. He's not going to do that to someone else, not even if he gets significant social and political benefits and even though Tevinter society looks away from discreet, extramarital gay affairs. His awareness and compassion are what signal him as a 'hero', and a worthy companion for the Inquisitor. Sure, he also doesn't want a hetero marriage for his own personal reasons, but he doesn't forget that his consenting to the match would also have a strong and likely negative impact on another person. 

 

You then, in later conversations with Dorian, pick up that he's just as dedicated to the idea of a legacy as his father is. But Dorian knows he's never going to be in a relationship likely to produce children - his legacy is making Tevinter a better place. That is again why he is a hero - he dedicates himself to an ideal that's bigger than he is. 


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#366
SamanthaJ

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*looks at 15 pages of stuff*

 

*looks at the original poster's post count of one*

 

*looks at date they were last here (Dec 24th)*

 

...

 

Why?


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#367
ComedicSociopathy

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*looks at 15 pages of stuff*

 

*looks at the original poster's post count of one*

 

*looks at date they were last here (Dec 24th)*

 

...

 

Why?

 

It is a question for the ages.



#368
Not a Cat Doll

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*looks at 15 pages of stuff*

 

*looks at the original poster's post count of one*

 

*looks at date they were last here (Dec 24th)*

 

...

 

Why?

I believe it's called "gr8 b8, m8." Or something.



#369
TeraBat

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...

 

Why?

 

Honestly, for me, I was bored. 



#370
Duelist

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It's not pretty.

If I were to try to imagine a thread with as little usefulness as possible...


We could always call in our good friend Artichoke to lower the bar. :D

Assuming he hasn't been banned yet of course.
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#371
RobRam10

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tumblr_mumnm2U8WJ1stcy3go1_400.gif



#372
Dean_the_Young

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I greatly disapprove. 

 

:(

 

See? Frowny face.

 

Now you've done it. All my woman-feelings just pouring all over the place.

 

Wasn't the pouring of woman-feelings one of those requirements for good female characters put forth by Sarkeesian?


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#373
Dean_the_Young

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You, Sir have an interesting idea of ‘fun‘!

 

I am also an interesting idea person.

 

Allegedly. If I do say so myself.



#374
Dean_the_Young

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Oh, no, you misunderstood me :) I meant that women having more tendency (whether rational or not) to fear men in power situations (like an arranged marriage) is just the way of the world. 

 

It appears I didn't understand your intent, so if my needling gave you any offense, I apologize. (I was trying more for comical absurdity than accusatory as well, but I know humor doesn't always translate well over the interwebs.)
 



#375
Dean_the_Young

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Exactly, that why she was totally wrong to use their cases as a example of different treating of men and women by writers. That Dorian's issue got more attention because he is male, which is so untrue that it hurts. Dorian's issue got more attention in game, because it wasn't only against his will, but also against his nature. The differences were there, because there were all different issues and how they were handled had absolutely nothing to do with anyones gender. 

That was very wrong approach to an issue, that discredited the whole disscussion and should not be encouraged. If anyone approach a serious issue, do it correctly with enough facts and evidence. Otherwise they discredit their own issue and other issues that are caught in the crossfire.

 

That's not so much her (is she a she?) being wrong as much as using a frame of reference that you disagree with. It's certainly not a case of imagining facts, which she was also accused of (though not, iirc, by you specifically), but it's also not a case of her making some of the arguments you have subscribed to her.

 

Frame of reference, models, narratives, perspectives and points of view, bias, ideological world view- these are all different ways to express the idea that how things are presented matter. Which facts are most relevant, if you will. For you, 'but also against his nature' is a very relevant fact. For her, the gender of those involved was.

 

There is no universally agreed basis of which is 'totally wrong,' because there is no ultimate arbitrator of what is 'right.' What matters to someone is what matters to them- and so long as they aren't ignoring or inventing facts to fit their narrative, it's generally accepted (in the West) that people are morally and ethically justified to express their own views of their own preferences. Which includes, of course, their preferred framework or prism through which they see the world.

 

Vehemently attacking someone on the basis of an incompatible world view, whether through personal accusations (which you did not do) or repeatedly mis-representing their arguments (which you did do), is generally not worthy of respect. Especially considering the way she raised her view- in a respectful, modest, and entirely non-confrontational way. She expressed her viewpoint of the world, and instead of engaging with her she was immediately attacked by people who would not even try to address what she actually said, or give reasons why they might disagree. You could have calmly disagreed, raised what you thought were more relevant points, and engaged her. Instead she was attacked, and fled, and I'd guarantee you that her world view wasn't changed by your righteous indignation of how wrong she was.

 

I may agree with your position more than hers, but I found her far more in the right than you.