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[Willowhugger]

Dorian's personal quest in that regard is about why he does not get along with his family, and why he is essentially out in Southern Thedas. His being gay is the reason. It would be like if Sera was a DALISH elf and got exiled from her clan for being a lesbian, or in the real world, a gay/lesbian person coming out to religious parents and getting disowned.

Yeah, I'd hate that story for Sera.

I'm not saying that it's objectively better or worse.

Just it didn't do it for me.

I'm glad it did for others.

[(Disgusted noise.)]

Actually, I think Dragon Age treats sexuality very realistically for a world that doesn't have a religious taboo on homosexuality. General consensus varies from inconsequential to odd to discouraged depending on the local culture and the individual's social class, but no one threatening to burn anyone at the stake over it. No one claiming that a higher power labels you as a dirty sinner going straight to hell would take a lot of the bite out of homophobia. 

[Lady Artifice]

Actually, I think Dragon Age treats sexuality very realistically for a world that doesn't have a religious taboo on homosexuality. General consensus varies from inconsequential to odd to discouraged depending on the local culture and the individual's social class, but no one threatening to burn anyone at the stake over it. No one claiming that a higher power labels you as a dirty sinner going straight to hell would take a lot of the bite out of homophobia. 

 

Good point. Thedas has actual demons to demonize.

 

Visible, touchable, kill or be killed ones. They don't need to claim sexual "deviance" is a sign of chaos and evil. They've got too much actual chaos and evil trying to rip you apart everywhere you go. 

[Fairly Foxy]

Dorian's personal quest in that regard is about why he does not get along with his family, and why he is essentially out in Southern Thedas. His being gay is the reason.

 

No.  He's in the south to fight the Venatori.  If you side with the mages, he is in Redcliffe to save the Inquisitor's butt from his former mentor.  Otherwise, he rushes to Haven after the Venatori kill Alexius, once again, to save the Inquisitor's butt this time from Calpernia's army.

 

Dorian is estranged from his family because he is out and refuses to lie, but he could've stayed in Tevinter regardless.  He has connections in Qarinus not tied to his father, and even servants in Minrathous.  He is still Altus, and thus would be treated well in the Imperium.  I believe he is also part or was once part of Vyrantium's Circle of Magi, so that's yet another place he could've gone.  Dorian's sexuality only comes into light at the tavern, at this point he has shown you much more than this one aspect of himself.  If that's all you see, fine, but don't say he ran from the Imperium JUST because he's gay.

[draken-heart]

No.  He's in the south to fight the Venatori.  If you side with the mages, he is in Redcliffe to save the Inquisitor's butt from his former mentor.  Otherwise, he rushes to Haven after the Venatori kill Alexius, once again, to save the Inquisitor's butt this time from Calpernia's army.
 
Dorian is estranged from his family because he is out and refuses to lie, but he could've stayed in Tevinter regardless.  He has connections in Qarinus not tied to his father, and even servants in Minrathous.  He is still Altus, and thus would be treated well in the Imperium.  I believe he is also part or was once part of Vyrantium's Circle of Magi, so that's yet another place he could've gone.  Dorian's sexuality only comes into light at the tavern, at this point he has shown you much more than this one aspect of himself.  If that's all you see, fine, but don't say he ran from the Imperium JUST because he's gay.

Eh, whatever. Dorian seems to think that is the big issue, when he talks about it in the tavern. maybe at first he thought that getting out of Tevinter was the only way for him to get away from his family.

[zestalyn]

and don’t just put it in there without regard for the setting.

You mean for the fantasy setting? People need to quit thinking that everything about these fictional and fantastical worlds are meant to represent our society. Much of own culture's homophobia can be traced to our religions, such as Catholicism. Who is to say that anything about Thedas's cultural foundations was nearly as concerned with people's sexuality as our society has been due to archaic religious princicples and conservative reinterpretations?

Just cause our society happened to have some biblical authors write some bogus about sexuality, or what have you, doesn't mean Bioware is obligated to write the people of Thedas as having developed the same level of taboo about something so basic to human nature as your sexual preferences. 

[Fairly Foxy]

nice edit-

 

Because it is a big deal?  Smh.  He has many things going on, and this quest highlighted one thing about him.  My previous points still stand.

[Former_Fiend]

Sometimes I wonder if people think homosexuality just completely disappeared off the face of the planet between the time of the ancient roman empire and the 20th century.

[draken-heart]

Because it is a big deal?  Smh.  He has many things going on, and this quest highlighted one thing about him.  My previous points still stand.

Point was that the quest had to do with his family. his being in southern thedas was a typo, an accident I did not bother with removing.

[Gaesesagai]

I'd like to state now I think making Tevinter homophobic was a stupid move and diminishes my enjoyment of the game.

Sorry guys.

But there's no reason for it, IMHO, and makes the games lesser.

 

Tevinter is not homophobic... not exactly, at least not in the sense you are using the word here (if I understood correctly).

In my opinion, Tevinter is more on the "master race" side of things. They cultivate the notion that being a mage and of noble origin  means you are superior to anyone who isn't both these things. They (aka nobles with magic) are in a place of privilege and power due to this, and like most people who are in such a position, they have a few priorities. First and foremost would be keeping said power/privilege. A close second I would venture to say would be gaining more power/privilege, but that is another discussion.

Back to the keeping of power/privilege, how do you do that? Well, obviously you want to maintain the status quo in society. Best way to do that is to ensure that you have descendants who are also mages so you can pass on what you gained/stole/etc. (a variation on the "nobility doesn't mix with others" type of concept)

Basically, what I'm saying is that they seem more concerned about protecting their own privilege (which means bloodlines, biological children, and more specifically bio kids with magic), then they are about how "wrong" being gay is. From that, it would be logical that a "it's deviant behavior" attitude would result, as a way to reinforce socially the necessity of perpetuating family bloddlines (to make sure you and your descendants share in on the power/privilege and don't end up as slave themselves because the magic trait died out in the family).

Hmm... a bit subtle as far as differences of opinions go, but yeah. That's what I got from Dorian's quest. I think it fits well and makes me despise the tevinter "evil" elite a bit more. Well, a lot more, homophobia tends to bring out a sort of viciousness in me lol.

But I think it can add a clear separation in terms of what is worth saving/reforming in Tevinter, vs what isn't or is beyond redemption. Afterall, the more issues, the more drama, the better the story and game Tevinter's "evil" mages already have slavery going for them, now add this. They are turning out to be really really despicable. Though I'm sure there will be people who support those things lol (just see support for qun, in terms of... yeah... lol).

Eh, I digress... 

[Farangbaa]

I'll accept your realism argument once I'v killed my first dragon

in real life.

[daveliam]

Well this thread has just been delightful to read.  Can we just all agree that we're done with it?  The OP wanted sexuality to be addressed "realistically" due to breeding purposes, which is already implemented in the game via Dorian's quest.  So, done, right?  No need to have a conversation where we justify our existence to the world. 

[SofaJockey]

Quick, check the internet for the things you might not like so you can complain about them !!

 

(sigh)

 

BioWare likes everyone to be able to play their game.

Long may that continue.

 

A little goodwill would be timely...

[jORUBA]

I do not like this 'liberal white knight values' implemented in DA either, since our world is already sunk in this nonsence.

But BW are the only ones who make AAA party-based rpg's and they are pretty good in what they are doing. So get over it. As far as they don't force my chars to sleep with all kinds of Dorians, I am good.

[MrSnoozer]

Got nothing againts Homosexual representation , but i do find it funny how 'Realism' is used in this arguement by people.

 

If i created a fantasy world where everyone was straight and noone was attracted to the opposite sex , would the use of 'Fantasy' mean Homosexuals in the real world can't complain of lack of representation in said fantasy world? Can creators use the word fantasy similar to how GTA uses the word satire ?

 

Personnally i'm of the POV that if you do not like something don't buy it. Goes to the OP and to the people opposed to the point i just raised

[Decepticon Leader Sully]

Eww heterosexuals

[TEWR]

Dorian romance?

 

You're not thinking big enough! No, what we need is something truly extraordinary....

[Lee80]

Damn gays are ruining the realism again.  I'd write a really long essay about how it's destroying both the real world and Thedas, but I gotta go romance Dorian for a third time.   

 

Laters, and Merry Christmas!  

[Decepticon Leader Sully]

thats Nugmass you heritic  

You're not thinking big enough! No, what we need is something truly extraordinary....

1 word... Gaybar.

[Tielis]

OP, don't worry.  Thedas has magic that can close any mortal wound, and stuff grows in the ground that can resurrect you even if you were beheaded (hi Leliana).

 

Thedas also has immortal elven gods that can body-hop, and also real ancient elves who go to sleep instead of dying.

 

The population isn't going to suffer because somebody likes boy-flavored ice cream instead of girl-flavored.  So please take your thinly-veiled homophobia elsewhere.  Preferably off a high cliff.

[WildOrchid]

Oh, it's one of those threads again.

Color me surprised.

[ButterRum]

So you can have dragons, mages, magic, and elves in a "feudalistic" society, and that doesn't feel out of place, but somehow homosexuality (something that actually exists in real life and before our time, too) feels abnormal in the game?

This is what bothered me about the Game of Thrones fandom. Their fans would defend misogyny to death because "those were the times back then," but somehow zombies and magic were OK. Except zombies and magic didn't exist "back then," and the creators of the book used misogyny in the fiction to keep women out of power.

I love Dragon Age because it's not afraid to put women in real power positions without punishing them for it. But that's another topic....

[LightningPoodle]

Oh for fu-

[myahele]

it seems like southern thedas is alot more lax regarding sexuality then Tevinter. In the Hinterlands there's a vacation of for the Arl of Redcliff. If you read the notes the arl of redcliff hundreds of years ago had a male lover. This was known throughout Ferelden, but he did his husbandly duties and had plenty of children. 

 

The male lover also got along well with everyone else to the point where he lived comfortably and buried with honours well after the arl died.

[Panda]

Homosexuality isn't related to dangers of the world. Ancient Greek and Japan both had lot of homosexuality, only after Christian influences it was looked down. Usually in this time the men who were gay/bi etc. had male lover and wife was for kids so it didn't interfere much with producing children.

 

I don't think I much understand your point anyways OP. Zevran's bisexualty wasn't that liked since he explained it with crow business.. it's not good explanation for bisexuality at all. Some people naturally like both gender, there hasn't to be story about why they like both genders. I think BW has improved from that time though.