386 réponses à ce sujet

[Decepticon Leader Sully]

you know what this thread needs?

boobs and pecks.

[Dean_the_Young]

While I agree with the OP to a point, I don't think there is no place for the sexuality as presented in the DA universe. I think for the most part it's been handled well. I do wish that instead of Dorian's father coming after him because Dorian simply refused to marry and Dorian's father tried blood magic to "modify" his orientation ... I think it would have fit the universe much more if it had been Dorian's wife coming for him.

 

Think about it. We have been told (and shown if you run the Hinterlands) that marriage is still an arrangement for continuing the line and begetting children. How much more appropriate would it have been if Dorian's wife couldn't handle the reality of who he was and was the one who tried to "modify" him via blood magic rather then letting him be himself and learning to be content with what she could get from him? It would have fit the universe we got much better in terms of how the game lore is presented. And Dorian shows that he is capable of forming a deep friendship with the Inquisitor ... if that had been his intended, would he have been able to satisfy the marriage requirement of "heir and spare" if both agreed to take the role of friends and find love where they could after that?

 

Wouldn't that have been a better fit to the lore with mostly the same themes?

 

Heck, you want feels? Maybe Dorian and his wife were friends and she committed the cardinal sin of falling for him and then trying to change him ... it would have shown how destructive it can be to pretend to be what you're not for the sake of appearances and tradition.

 

But instead, BioWare went with the easy route to make it directly applicable to our world instead of the one they built.

 

I think this is a reasonable suggestion. Kudos.

 

I think the underlying premise of Dorian's delimma (the use of blood magic to threaten his sexuality and freedom) could have been addressed without resorting to a 'parent tries to cure the gay out of their kid' narrative. That struck me as reaching and a bit forced as an advocacy, because of the real world parallels, but changing the focus from 'I can't believe my child is gay' to the appearances-angle would have allowed for most of the same events without diminishing the delimma.

 

You wouldn't even need the wife angle- the idea of the father could still apply even if you just worked from the 'trying to secure the legacy with an heir' motivation.

[Lady Artifice]

you know we should ignore threads like these. that way the trolls will starve to death from lack of attention and go extinct.  

 

 

I still don't think OP is a troll...just someone who thinks they're personal perception defines what qualifies as "realistic". 

 

What I mean is, I think their goal was more about indulging their own ego by dropping a friggin' essay on the forum and then taking off without acknowledging any of the replies, than it was witnessing people get riled up over it.

 

I could be wrong of course. Seems pretty subtle if it is a troll post, though.

 

Of course the standard I now hold trolls to was set by Artichoke, and he sets the bar pretty high low.

[Lady Artifice]

I think this is a reasonable suggestion. Kudos.

 

I think the underlying premise of Dorian's delimma (the use of blood magic to threaten his sexuality and freedom) could have been addressed without resorting to a 'parent tries to cure the gay out of their kid' narrative. That struck me as reaching and a bit forced as an advocacy, because of the real world parallels, but changing the focus from 'I can't believe my child is gay' to the appearances-angle would have allowed for most of the same events without diminishing the delimma.

 

You wouldn't even need the wife angle- the idea of the father could still apply even if you just worked from the 'trying to secure the legacy with an heir' motivation.

 

The legacy angle seemed to be the whole premise to me. I mean, there was even a phrase about Pavus Sr's "precious legacy". 

[Lianaar]

Not like there weren't highly respected, valued and adored cultures in human history where homosexuality was considered the "real" love. It was almost compulsory in high end society.
Society only decides what we do publicly and what we do secretly, not what we do, imho. And seriously, I am getting rather fed up with the game being degraded to homosexuality threads. This game has so much more to offer. If you don't like a part of it, SKIP IT, and do a part what you love. You are totally free not to deal with it. You can just ignore Dorian, and not hook up with Bull as a male. If not your shoes, don't wear them, that's it.

[nightscrawl]

Ooo! Ooo! Talk to the surgeon when you get to Skyhold! I laughed. She's all, "Good diet, exercise, and a balance of the humors is what's necessary to keep you healthy. Science is the future, not magic." She's the medieval Bill Nye.

 

She also talked about a great new medical treatment involving boring a hole into your skull. Trepanning for the win I guess... Thank the Maker I have mage friends.

[GameBoyish]

ALWAYS better with the chest hair. There is literally no situation where no chest hair is the better option.

As someone enchanted by the lush hairy chests on non-Asian men, I agree. Chest hair forever!

[panda_express12]

To be fair there were ancient societies where homosexual wasn't that big a deal. Roman and Greek spring to mind.

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

Another 1 of these threads did everyone drink a shot yet...?

[d4eaming]

I love Dorian's character and in so many ways he reminds me of my elder brother who is also a wonderful witty and endearing homosexual who has class, charm and well yeah, Dorian in real life. Anyway, when Dorian has the convo where he tells you he couldn't put on the show while he was screaming on the inside hit me hard. In the moment I know longer saw him as a game character, he became someone like my Brother who should be allowed to be who he is, inside and out. So yeah, I think it is handled the right way in the game and I think it speaks volumes that he is shown as an intelligent human and not the fruity gay man some would stereotype all gay men as.

 

For those of us who have been there, that phrase is very apt (though I always likened it to feeling trapped inside my skin and wanting to claw my way out, as I am trans, but the general feel is the same). The entire scene may feel a bit heavy, and I can definitely see why some people feel it is, I still feel it is pretty much perfect as it is.

 

Real people experience these things, and real people need someone they can connect with. Dorian is one of those for me, even though my experiences and his (were he real) are inexact. It is still a very close fit.

 

As to the "why couldn't it have been his wife coming for him?" Dorian already said why that wasn't acceptable. And let me tell you, living in the same house with someone you were/are expected to be in a relationship with, and then not following through, is very difficult. I split with my ex, moved into a different bedroom, made zero hints of desiring any amount of intimacy, and in fact made it blatantly clear I did not want, in any way shape or form, to be touched by him- at all, ever- and it was still unbearable because as long as I was there, there was the expectation that eventually things would change.

 

So I left. The country. And the continent. (Much like Dorian, lols.) "Playing pretend" or even pretending to play pretend is not psychologically healthy, and it's no surprise Dorian wanted nothing to do with it.

[(Disgusted noise.)]

I can't stop. It's like a compulsion. 

 

 

This one by Ymirr has Peacock feathers...and chest hair.

 

Spoiler

 

What are people's thoughts regarding Dorian and chest hair? Better without or with?

I'm all about that Pavus chest hair.

[vertigomez]

I wonder if elves get any kind of chest hair. Like, peach fuzz or wat?

[TheJediSaint]

I wonder if elves get any kind of chest hair. Like, peach fuzz or wat?

Only the cool ones.

[(Disgusted noise.)]

I think this is a reasonable suggestion. Kudos.

 

I think the underlying premise of Dorian's delimma (the use of blood magic to threaten his sexuality and freedom) could have been addressed without resorting to a 'parent tries to cure the gay out of their kid' narrative. That struck me as reaching and a bit forced as an advocacy, because of the real world parallels, but changing the focus from 'I can't believe my child is gay' to the appearances-angle would have allowed for most of the same events without diminishing the delimma.

 

You wouldn't even need the wife angle- the idea of the father could still apply even if you just worked from the 'trying to secure the legacy with an heir' motivation.

That's literally what they did. Halward was only trying to change Dorian's orientation so that Dorian would marry a woman and make an heir. His problem wasn't Dorian's inherent sexuality, it was Dorian's refusal to pretend otherwise. But if you change that sexuality, then you bypass that.

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

I don't think I much understand your point anyways OP. Zevran's bisexualty wasn't that liked since he explained it with crow business.. it's not good explanation for bisexuality at all. Some people naturally like both gender, there hasn't to be story about why they like both genders. I think BW has improved from that time though.

Id agree that Zevran's bisexuality wasn't explained great in DA:O, especially when he implied that the main reason he liked men sexually was cos he'd been brainwashed by Crow training, like he'd have just been straight if he'd never been sold to them as a child

I much prefer Leliana, she just happens to find other women sexually attractive without some tragic backstory added

[GameBoyish]

I wonder if elves get any kind of chest hair. Like, peach fuzz or wat?

I'd like to think elves are like Asian people. Forever young looking and virtually hairless.

[d4eaming]

That's literally what they did. Halward was only trying to change Dorian's orientation so that Dorian would marry a woman and make an heir. His problem wasn't Dorian's inherent sexuality, it was Dorian's refusal to pretend otherwise. But if you change that sexuality, then you bypass that.

 

I suppose in a way, it's unfortunate that Dorian doesn't want a child of his own, but I imagine, as with my own characters, if they are gay and thus lack any interest whatsoever with the opposite sex, even being able to perform would be an issue. Guy isn't attracted to women, 100% homosexual on the Kinsey scale? It's going to be a bit difficult to get things going. I've talked to and read about men who just tried to do it, for whatever reason, and found it physically impossible.

 

Less of an issue for women, but still thoroughly unpleasant. Surrogacy would definitely be an option, were he so inclined (and capable). I don't think he's said he's opposed to having children in general, but that he isn't interested in "breeding." Away from Tevinter influence, he could possibly decide that surrogacy or adoption with his boyfriend Inquisitor would be a good route. Just no teaching the poor child all the silly Tevinter highblood bullshit.

 

I think a couple of my male Inquisitors could get behind that idea.

[vertigomez]

Only the cool ones.

Gotta put some chest on that chest.

Id agree that Zevran's bisexuality wasn't explained great in DA:O, especially when he implied that the main reason he liked men sexually was cos he'd been brainwashed by Crow training, like he'd have just been straight if he'd never been sold to them as a child

I much prefer Leliana, she just happens to find other women sexually attractive without some tragic backstory added

People say this but I never got the impression that the Crows somehow brainwashed Zev into being bisexual. He says they look for people who are open-minded, sure... but that doesn't imply that they "make" them that way, just that it's a helluva lot easier to convincingly seduce people when you're, ya know, actually attracted to them.

When it comes to loving men he just says that he'd never discount anyone based on what society says.

[d4eaming]

Id agree that Zevran's bisexuality wasn't explained great in DA:O, especially when he implied that the main reason he liked men sexually was cos he'd been brainwashed by Crow training, like he'd have just been straight if he'd never been sold to them as a child

I much prefer Leliana, she just happens to find other women sexually attractive without some tragic backstory added

 

Much as I honestly do adore Zev (he's my canon romance for my male Dalish duel-wielding rogue) that conversation did definitely irk me. It came across as he "learned to like" sex with men, and not that he was originally inclined that way. It could also be interpreted as he was already open-minded or curious and they pushed him all the way, but neither option truly sits well with me.

 

edit: d'awww, Vertigomez beat me to it

 

In the end, the fact that he does fall in love with a man, and gets so flustered over the whole things, redeems this a little bit, because it clearly explains that he does thoroughly enjoy my boy's company. But I would definitely have preferred it seeming less forced on him.

 

DA2's route really doesn't bother me, as it's not something all characters would necessarily be open about up front (Seb is definitely straight, Isabella makes it clear she likes both, irrespective of Hawke's showing interest, while Anders' bisexuality is only apparent to a male Hawke, and female Hawke never learns the truth about Karl, even though it is heavily inferred). Merril as I recall is just completely innocent (never romanced her except just to see the scene, then reloaded because it was not for me). Fenris also never makes a statement on his preferences, he just "is" (but there is inferred context between him and Danarius, and it is not good nor mutual, however it doesn't ever say anything to his gender preferences, just his intimacy and disposition against physical contact issues). I get why some people hate it, but I hate the term "player-sexual" as that's not really the way I interpreted the characters, personally.

 

I am happy with how DAI went, for the most part. In my preferred gender, I have a great guy to choose, but don't care for my second option. I would have preferred another option (gay or bi) of a male elf, but c'est la vie. Maybe in the next game.

[daveliam]

Much as I honestly do adore Zev (he's my canon romance for my male Dalish duel-wielding rogue) that conversation did definitely irk me. It came across as he "learned to like" sex with men, and not that he was originally inclined that way. It could also be interpreted as he was already open-minded or curious and they pushed him all the way, but neither option truly sits well with me.

 

edit: d'awww, Vertigomez beat me to it

 

In the end, the fact that he does fall in love with a man, and gets so flustered over the whole things, redeems this a little bit, because it clearly explains that he does thoroughly enjoy my boy's company. But I would definitely have preferred it seeming less forced on him.

 

DA2's route really doesn't bother me, as it's not something all characters would necessarily be open about up front (Seb is definitely straight, Isabella makes it clear she likes both, irrespective of Hawke's showing interest, while Anders' bisexuality is only apparent to a male Hawke, and female Hawke never learns the truth about Karl, even though it is heavily inferred). Merril as I recall is just completely innocent (never romanced her except just to see the scene, then reloaded because it was not for me). Fenris also never makes a statement on his preferences, he just "is" (but there is inferred context between him and Danarius, and it is not good nor mutual, however it doesn't ever say anything to his gender preferences, just his intimacy and disposition against physical contact issues). I get why some people hate it, but I hate the term "player-sexual" as that's not really the way I interpreted the characters, personally.

 

I am happy with how DAI went, for the most part. In my preferred gender, I have a great guy to choose, but don't care for my second option. I would have preferred another option (gay or bi) of a male elf, but c'est la vie. Maybe in the next game.

 

Yeah, I never read the DA 2 LI's as "playersexual" either.  To me, for that to be the case, I'd need to see one of them specifically identify as straight with o/s PC's and gay with s/s PC's.  Otherwise, it just makes more sense that they are bisexual.  I've never understood why people think otherwise.

[CuriousArtemis]

Yeah, I never read the DA 2 LI's as "playersexual" either.  To me, for that to be the case, I'd need to see one of them specifically identify as straight with o/s PC's and gay with s/s PC's.  Otherwise, it just makes more sense that they are bisexual.  I've never understood why people think otherwise.

 

I headcanoned it? I romanced Fenris over and over and over and over again; tbh I didn't like to think of him as being interested in women or... even other men >.> 

 

In all seriousness, I believe the idea was put into our heads when the devs themselves began using the term. I'd never really thought about the matter before then. I did not think of the characters' sexuality. I just thought of them as "romance options." I didn't think of my own character's gender either. (But this comes from a gender neutral person)

[daveliam]

I headcanoned it? I romanced Fenris over and over and over and over again; tbh I didn't like to think of him as being interested in women or... even other men >.> 

 

In all seriousness, I believe the idea was put into our heads when the devs themselves began using the term. I'd never really thought about the matter before then. I did not think of the characters' sexuality. I just thought of them as "romance options." I didn't think of my own character's gender either. (But this comes from a gender neutral person)

 

Really?  I might be totally off with this then.  I thought for sure that 'playersexuality' was a BSN term and that the devs never used it.  Damn, have I been wrong when I've made that post in other threads?  Quick, Artemis, delete your post and I'll delete mine and no one will ever know that this happened! 

[GameBoyish]

Playersexual was founded in BSN. Gaider says he hates the term.

[CuriousArtemis]

Really?  I might be totally off with this then.  I thought for sure that 'playersexuality' was a BSN term and that the devs never used it.  Damn, have I been wrong when I've made that post in other threads?  Quick, Artemis, delete your post and I'll delete mine and no one will ever know that this happened! 

 

LOL!! Yeah I'm pretty sure Mr. Gaider first used it a couple years ago. 

 

But regardless of "who was first," it was not a term I was familiar with until I came here. I just nodded and bought into it I guess since they're just characters. Plus I like to form stories in my head (sometimes I write those stories down... why, I don't know); and when I played DA2, my first RPG ever, and first experience with romances ^^ I was head-writing all sorts of histories and future stories about Fenris and Hawke. So I just pretended he was gay when I played the game, even though I knew he was making kissy face with lady Hawkes in other people's games

[OHB MajorV]

After finishing Dragon Age Inquisition, I went around the web trying to find discussions about alternate branches, companions, and the like. While doing this I ran across a few videos, and posts, discussing how stupid, and idiotic it is to protest Bioware's inclusion of homosexual relations in their recent games, but specifically Inquisition. These posts really struck a nerve with me. It was as if they, those wanting more inclusion in media, completely ignored the universe Dragon Age is set in, a feudalistic world, where magic exists, and instead focused on the argument of representation, where because of our much more globalized world, and diverse society, specifically U.S, and Canada, media has to be more diverse in the characters it includes. The problem with this idea is that it makes the world Dragon Age is set in seem extraordinarily strange.
(This section has nothing to do with the dwarves, please just ignore they for a minute)
So, the Dragon Age Series is set in the World of Thedas, and this world has a huge amount of problems, every few hundred years a species called Darkspawn, attempts to invade this world, and in the process, thousands if not millions of combatants are killed in the attempt to push them back, not mentioning that the leader of these Darkspawn, called an Archdemon, a powerful dragon like creature that alone, can easily destroy villages, cities, and armies, and that killed be killed ‘easily’ like ‘normal’ dragons, who more or less have the same destructive power as an Archdemon. This world also has to deal with the conflicts that Feudalism brings to the table, bloody succession crises, cultural rebellions, assassinations, and conquests against other nations for land. And if our experiences in all of the games are to be believed, massive amounts of gang violence. This still doesn’t mention the rampant diseases, troubled births, and uncivilized view of medicine that would come with a time period such as this, all of which would result in many more deaths outside of combat. Finish it off with mages, people who society locks up because of the fear associated with their powers, which include creating firestorms, crushing something telekinetically, and being susceptible to the corrupting power of demons, who if they gain control of a mage, will proceed to kill most living things around it, and you’ve got yourself a world where death is nearly everywhere.
Yet, no one really minds two people’s decision to not produce children, apparently these dangers, all of which are much more serious than any threat ever faced by Europeans in the Middle Ages period in the real world, are worth caring too much about. This isn’t to say that I think homosexual, or bisexual romances have no place in this series, I just feel like they, for the most part, aren’t addressed properly. The only one that I think was addressed properly was Zevran’s bisexuality, as the indulgent lifestyle the Crows allowed him to have would lead him down a path of a sexually liberated lifestyle; not to mention Zevran is suppose to view his life as forfeit for the Crows, and is thus not expected to procreate.
However Bioware did show their competence when they created the Dwarf society, with all of its quirks well explained, and how the lost of their kingdom, perpetual war with Darkspawn, and their caste system lead to the dark situation they were trapped in at the beginning of Origins. The writing team showed great skill in crafting this part of the setting
All that I really want is Bioware to make a world that feels real, and this is something modern Bioware has a much harder time doing, I assume because their older games were all licensed, and I just hope that when Bioware starts exploring more touchy subjects related to identity, sexuality, and so on, they don’t screw it up as they’ve done with the Dragon Age series, and don’t just put it in there without regard for the setting. I can only hope the new game Bioware announced at E3 can handle itself better.

Rome was warring with other nations essentially from the time it was founded until it crumbled aka a long ****** time, they had massive sex parties, incest, death games and last but not least plenty of homosexuality. What other disease have you seen running rampant in thedas other than blight that would threaten reproductive numbers? Where are your facts? You base your assumptions in reality but reality didn't have magic to help the healers. Yes there are no healing spells but magic healing exists it's just time consuming. I see no trouble with how BW depicts sexuality in thedas.