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[(Disgusted noise.)]

Hugely different interpretations of DA character story lines. C'est la vie!

 

To clarify, it didn't explicitly say "My father would have overlooked it".

 

I'm inferring that from dialogue lines of Dorian's that suggest it was (paraphrased) "because I wouldn't live a lie, and marry some poor girl only for us to grow to hate each other". I know I could my interpretation is my own, but he does say something like this more than once. 

"But what was the first thing you did when your precious heir refused to play pretend for the rest of his life?"

"I wouldn't put on a show, marry the girl, keep everything unsavory private and locked away. Selfish, I suppose, not to want to spend my entire life screaming on the inside."

"Where I come from, anything between two men is about pleasure. It's accepted but taken no further. You learn not to hope for more."

 

In my opinion, that paints a pretty clear picture that the problem had less to do with sex and more to do with the fact that Dorian refused to marry a woman as is expected of a mage of his social standing, regardless of sexual orientation.

[Gaesesagai]

Ohhh I don't know how much I can agree with this. I am biologically female and I like guys, but honestly if someone were pressuring me into an arranged marriage, I would be more scared and horrified if my partner were a male than a female. I would say that is mostly due to gender politics.

 

Dorian was probably never afraid of his potential spouse or felt like his free will or power were in danger. Yes, it would have been not pleasant to be married to someone he's not attracted to and be expected to sleep with her until she got pregnant. But honestly, a woman could potentially feel the exact same thing.

 

Are you saying that men are implicitly more "dangerous" (as in what exactly? violent, abusive...)?

And even worse than that, are you implying a potentially abusive situation for a man is "not as significant" than it would be if it was a woman in that position? Or that the man "can take it"? Not sure exactly... they all seem pretty bad to me

 

Surely I'm mistaken and I misunderstood... yes? I remember liking your posts

[Gaesesagai]

Thank you, House.

 

Look, OP. Once upon a time I thought the same way as you, but then I was saved by the realm of logic.

 

Discrimination against homosexuality is not biologically inherited. It's a social trait born via stages in our history.  We pick it up from assh*les who were unfortunate enough to pick that stuff from assh*les too.

 

This social trait in non-existent in Dragon Age since nothing in its lore has supported it; therefore everybody has not had the misfortune of inheriting this ugly prejudice and can all bang chicks and/or dudes they want.

 

Just remember this; nobody is born "hating" anything. And even if one does, if society complies and sees it as the norm, then the rest will follow.

 

[CuriousArtemis]

Are you saying that men are implicitly more "dangerous" (as in what exactly? violent, abusive...)?

And even worse than that, are you implying a potentially abusive situation for a man is "not so significant" than it would be if it was a woman in that position? Or that the man "can take it"? Not sure exactly... they all seem pretty bad to me

 

Surely I'm mistaken and I misunderstood... yes? I remember liking your posts

 

Well, I think it is simply scarier, in general (individual situations and personalities can vary, of course!), for a woman to be given to a man than for a man to be given to a woman. That's simply the way of the world... it's part of a female person's every day experience. 

[Dean_the_Young]

Well, I think it is simply scarier, in general (individual situations and personalities can vary, of course!), for a woman to be given to a man than for a man to be given to a woman. That's simply the way of the world... it's part of a female person's every day experience. 

 

It is? Since when? Why was I never involved?

 

Is this a list-based rationing scheme where you have to wait your turn, or am I supposed to sign up somewhere?

 

I mean if free women were being given out daily, you'd think I'd have been told or something.

 

What's the specifics on this? Is there a limit on how many per day? Do you have to show proof of income or something?

[CuriousArtemis]

It is? Since when? Why was I never involved?

 

Is this a list-based rationing scheme where you have to wait your turn, or am I supposed to sign up somewhere?

 

I mean if free women were being given out daily, you'd think I'd have been told or something.

 

What's the specifics on this? Is there a limit on how many per day? Do you have to show proof of income or something?

 

I don't understand what you're asking.

[Gaesesagai]

Well, I think it is simply scarier, in general (individual situations and personalities can vary, of course!), for a woman to be given to a man than for a man to be given to a woman. That's simply the way of the world... it's part of a female person's every day experience. 

 

While I agree that it is indeed so, to a certain degree --- and the reason why this is "the way of the world" is rooted in exactly this type of mentality you display, meaning most people aren't born as*holes, they are raised so or made so, by people who are entrenched in preconceptions, but this is another discussion --- you still haven't said whether you think it would be "less of a problem" if a man is set in a potentially abusive situation than it would be if it was a woman. Which seems you do. Ugh.

[Dean_the_Young]

I don't understand what you're asking.

 

Your post indicated that women being given to men was part of a female person's every day experience. That it was a way of the world.

 

I am poking fun at that.

[CuriousArtemis]

While I agree that it is indeed so, to a certain degree --- and the reason why this is "the way of the world" is rooted in exactly this type of mentality you display, meaning most people aren't born as*holes, they are raised so or made so, by people who are entrenched in preconceptions, but this is another discussion --- you still haven't said whether you think it would be "less of a problem" if a man is set in a potentially abusive situation than it would be if it was a woman. Which seems you do. Ugh.

 

No, I didn't say that. I think you might be reading into what I said  

 

I think I'm saying: in the arranged marriage situation, the woman's situation is more likely to be abusive than the man's. Rape trigger warning:

Spoiler

Women are more likely to get raped by their husbands than men are by their wives, for example.

 

So I honestly am not too worried about Dorian's personal safety were he married off. But I would more likely be if his sister were married off. If that makes sense.

[Monica21]

Okay, I've been trying to read this thread, granted while talking on skype, but when did personal safety enter into the discussion? Dorian's personal safety is at risk from simply staying in Tevinter because of his father, and not because of any marriage he might or might not agree to.

[CuriousArtemis]

Your post indicated that women being given to men was part of a female person's every day experience. That it was a way of the world.

 

I am poking fun at that.

 

Oh, no, you misunderstood me I meant that women having more tendency (whether rational or not) to fear men in power situations (like an arranged marriage) is just the way of the world. 

[CuriousArtemis]

Okay, I've been trying to read this thread, granted while talking on skype, but when did personal safety enter into the discussion? Dorian's personal safety is at risk from simply staying in Tevinter because of his father, and not because of any marriage he might or might not agree to.

 

Yep, agreed. 

[Lady Artifice]

Again, here there be treacherous terrain. 

[Monica21]

Again, here there be treacherous terrain. 

 

And I'm still confused by how we got here. Oh well.

[(Disgusted noise.)]

And I'm still confused by how we got here. Oh well.

Comparing Dorian's situation to Anora's political marriage, which then spiraled even father down to just male vs female when it comes to theoretical arranged marriages, when then turned into theoretical domestic violence.

[Lady Artifice]

And I'm still confused by how we got here. Oh well.

 

There was a progression, but I think this begins to happen when we start comparing the plight of one historically oppressed social group to that of another. It can get under people's skin, touching too deeply on personal experience, and emotions sometimes partially take over the discussion and lead us in dangerous directions.

[Monica21]

Comparing Dorian's situation to Anora's political marriage, which then spiraled even father down to just male vs female when it comes to theoretical arranged marriages, when then turned into theoretical domestic violence.

I suppose my confusion stems from the inaccurate parallels. Anora's marriage to Alistair is really just, "Hey, wanna do this?" It's actually more difficult to convince Alistair, from what I recall. In both cases, neither are particularly happy about the situation but understand the political expediency of it.

Dorian's situation is a world different. He would be forcefully changed into something he is not simply to provide his father with an heir.

If Alistair or Anora outright refuse the marriage, which she does if Alistair kills Loghain, then perhaps the situations are more similar.

[Rannik]

Dorian's mission is the worst thing ever though, fact.

 

Even I could feel the agenda being shoved down the beginning of my digestive system.

 

(Try control + f-ing that, dave)

[OHB MajorV]

This topic is a minefield, the world is a dangerous place for everyone regardless of any specific circumstance. Most of what is being discussed here has nothing to do with the question OP raises.

[Farangbaa]

Please, let the heterosexuals discuss what a homosexual relationship should be like.

[Monica21]

This topic is a minefield, the world is a dangerous place for everyone regardless of any specific circumstance. Most of what is being discussed here has nothing to do with the question OP raises.

I don't think the OP cared much about raising legitimate issues. He/she posted one time and just left the thread here.

[OHB MajorV]

Please, let the heterosexuals discuss what a homosexual relationship should be like.

Because anyone in this thread has declared their sexual preference?